47-55.1 Looking for Advice on Upcoming 1950 Truck Project

[mr48chev]

Nice truck.

The best advice is that if it isn't broke don't fix it just to be fixing it.

First thing I would suggest is get a can of Marvel Mystery oil and put a few squirts in each cylinder and let it set for a while. That has been the go to squirt in cylinders of rigs that have been sitting and may be stuck for 60+years. ATF may work also but I have always used Marvel Mystery oil since 1962 when our auto shop instructor had us squirt it in an engine that had been sitting. As dsraven said, no matter what you use don't be stingy with it when you squirt it in the cylinders, The objective is to get it to soak down past the rings to free them up and while it will smoke it won't hurt anything if you can crank the engine over with the starter with the plugs out before you try to start it.

Still getting it running after you get it to turn over is a process of elimination.

First is never assume on anything, test it.

Does the battery have a full charge and show that with a test meter?

Are the battery cables in good condition with tight terminals and are every connection to what they connect to to clean bare and shiny metal? I've lost track of how many vehicles I have gone out to look at in the past 60 years where there were corroded connections, loose connections or the several times where the owner had put many coats of paint on the engine and refused to scrape the paint away to bare metal to make a ground contact.

Once it spins over with the starter good move on to the ignition.

Are all connections tight? Do the wires go where they should? Are the points adjusted correctly? I've helped more than one guy with a no start after working on it that set his point gap with the rubbing block on the flat part of the cam rather than the tip of a lobe.

Fuel, I'd say it goes without question rebuild the carb as it has been sitting for six years.
With my lack of luck with old gas I would pull the tank and flush it out. Old gas kills engines and the carbon from bad gas can lock the engine up. That may actually be the entire issue when one things of it. Drove the truck after it has sat since last season, parked it and the next day the carbon build up on the valves from the old pretty well turned to varnish gas locked up the valves and the engine in the process. I've had it happen and need to pull the heads off an engine in the next couple of weeks to check it now that the weather is a bit dryer. Since that truck is known to have sat for lengthy periods of time that may be the problem.

If I had access to one of those scopes that you can look in cylinders with I would check to see if I could see the valves with it. or pull the manifold assembly and look in the exhaust ports at the valves to see if they are full of black carbon.

[pjmoreland]

Originally Posted by mr48chev

Drove the truck after it has sat since last season, parked it and the next day the carbon build up on the valves from the old pretty well turned to varnish gas locked up the valves and the engine in the process.

Very interesting. I did not know the valves could lock the engine. Is it possible to unstick stuck valves by spraying the valves through the intake and exhaust ports? If the head has to be removed, how difficult is it to find a replacement head gasket, and can I get away with reinstalling the head afterward without having it resurfaced?

Originally Posted by mr48chev

If I had access to one of those scopes that you can look in cylinders with I would check to see if I could see the valves with it. or pull the manifold assembly and look in the exhaust ports at the valves to see if they are full of black carbon.

I do have a scope, so I will definitely bring it with me.

Here's some additional information from the owner:

"Just so you know I’ve sprayed an entire can of that ATF stuff in the cylinders. Yeah I actually stood on the larger monkey wrench, and bounced my weight, but still never got that crankshaft to budge."

[MidLifer]

[QUOTE=pjmoreland;9072642If the head has to be removed, how difficult is it to find a replacement head gasket, and can I get away with reinstalling the head afterward without having it resurfaced?

[/QUOTE]

I don't know about head gaskets but I just went through a search for an oil pan gasket and found out that Felpro and Victor Reinz have both discontinued making them. I found a supplier that sells products from Best Gaskets, who specialize in vintage car gaskets. He was very responsive and helpful.

https://marxparts.com/chevrolet_6.htm

[pjmoreland]

Originally Posted by MidLifer

I don't know about head gaskets but I just went through a search for an oil pan gasket and found out that Felpro and Victor Reinz have both discontinued making them. I found a supplier that sells products from Best Gaskets, who specialize in vintage car gaskets. He was very responsive and helpful.

https://marxparts.com/chevrolet_6.htm

Thank you. I will give him a call if we end up having to pull the head. If the valves are stuck, I'm hoping we can coax them free without removing the head.

[MidLifer]

Slow day at work - just checked RockAuto and they list availability for head gaskets. FEL-PRO HS7619B1 is the part number if what you have is a later 235 (58 on).

Good luck with the project!

Originally Posted by pjmoreland

Thank you. I will give him a call if we end up having to pull the head. If the valves are stuck, I'm hoping we can coax them free without removing the head.

[pjmoreland]

Originally Posted by MidLifer

Slow day at work - just checked RockAuto and they list availability for head gaskets. FEL-PRO HS7619B1 is the part number if what you have is a later 235 (58 on).

Good luck with the project!

Thanks!

[dsraven]

better to use a prybar on the flywheel than use the bolt on the front of the crank. flywheel is made for that sort of thing.
if it is froze, fill the cylinders with ATF or diesel and leave the plugs out so it is easy to keep filling the holes. each time you work on it try the flywheel and if it is still froze fill the cylinders again and fix something else so you're not tempted to do something you will regret later. after a while it may come free if you're not in a hurry. diesel may be thinner so it will run past the pistons easier and may free things up quicker but then it is also flammable so later if you plan to be hammering, using a torch or anything make sure to drain the oil pan completely first. try not to use a big snipe or hammer on stuff like the wrench or pry bar as this can break stuff that costs to fix and/or may be hard to find. better to let the penetrating fluids do some work. if you have a scope put that in the cylinders before you fill them with fluid and see if there is a mouse nest or something in there first. if you have an inline heater, like a heater hose or rad hose style, you could plumb that in and heat the block up some which may help. if you have some extra stuff laying around you could run some hose with connections to eliminate the rad for this operation. that will possibly make things expand when heated and then contract a bit when cooled so the fluid can work into the tight areas.

[mick53]

Can you pull the rockers or push rods to take the valve train out of the equation?

[pjmoreland]

Originally Posted by mick53

Can you pull the rockers or push rods to take the valve train out of the equation?

Good idea.

[dsraven]

you could pull the rockers and tap on each valve with a dead blow hammer to see if they are free moving or not. lube them up first by squirting oil on the valve guides through the spring coils.
waaaay back I worked in an engine shop. we got in an old v8 engine from the '50's that was siezed, my job to dissassemble carefully. one cylinder was crammed full of mouse nest and that was the cylinder that was keeping things from turning. mouse got in through the open exhaust valve. you gotta wonder how far that mouse wouldda crawled up the pipe before it decided to turn around. i wonder if there was a muffler on the vehicle, probably no exhaust system at all actually, lol.

[pjmoreland]

If there is a mouse nest in a cylinder (seems highly probable), I'm imagining the head will have to come off.

[dsraven]

yup. good reson to use that scope down the cylinders to see what you have inside. when do you think you will be able to get a look at it? soon hopefully, before we have you convinced pretty much everything inside the engine is toast and you need a fire breathing, tire smoking wallet emptying upgrade, complete with a full independent suspension upgrade, lol.
if you find the engine needs a rebuild will you continue with the original (to the truck when you got it) inline 6 or move on to something else that is possibly easier to source parts for? a newer version of the chevy inline 6?
scope the cylinders, look for rust and pitting on the cylinder walls. if it is siezed and you can't get it unstuck that would mean a teardown. before you go that far price and source the usual parts needed to see if that is feasible and within the budget. if not then maybe just leave the engine complete and source the next option for power. better to have a single lump in the shop than a whole bunch of dirty parts, a torn down engine takes more space than an engine that is together and sitting on a wooden crate. it could be sold as is to someone inclined to rebuild it or use parts off of it. if you scope it and it looks reasonable, fill it up with penetrating fluids and walk away for awhile

[pjmoreland]

The truck is at my wife's uncle's house up in Washington state. We will be driving up there on Sunday, May 8th, and will start working on Monday morning. If the engine requires tear down beyond head removal, then we would likely want to go the least expensive route toward getting the truck back on the road. I welcome suggestions on what that might be. Would something like a 250 from a later model truck be a bolt-in replacement?

[joedoh]

why not buy a cheap borescope at cardboard freight? if the engine is pooched a quick look will show it.


edit: apparently i am the second person to suggest this. still a good idea even if raven said it first haha.

[pjmoreland]

Originally Posted by joedoh

why not buy a cheap borescope at cardboard freight? if the engine is pooched a quick look will show it.

Yep. I've got one, and that is the first thing on my to-do list.

[dsraven]

the 235 sits on a front engine mount, the newer inline 6's have side mounts. there are lots of threads on how to fab and install side mounts for using the newer engines in place of the 235. maybe go to the toolbar at the top of the page and do a search on here, click the 67-72 button instead of the google button if you wanna just search on this forum. not sure if the 235 bellhousing is gonna work for you so that would also require some other driveline work. the task force trucks used a small block chevy engine that used front mounts so you could possibly find a car bellhousing that sits on the cross member and would accept the original trans, then install a sbc engine with some home made front mounts. not sure how the starter etc would mount up or what flywheel you would use. somebody here ould have advice after doing that possibly.
the task force mounts are shown in this thread but I suggest to do a little deeper dive.
http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=611164

[pjmoreland]

Ok, thank you. I will do some research. I see I have touched onto a common topic. Sorry about that.

[dsraven]

A good thing to check into would be if there is a reputable rebuilder for those engines and, if so, find out how much for a worse case scenario rebuild. Then include a new clutch and a flywheel resurface, a rad ckean flush and test/rebuild, hoses, belts, water pump, fuel pump, carb kit, tune up stuff etc. That gives you an idea of what to expect if you wanna keep it stick.

[pjmoreland]

Good call. I imagine there's got to be someone in the Seattle/Tacoma area that would do a good job of rebuilding this engine.

[mick53]

It seems that there would be a lot of 235's sitting around in peoples garages that they have no use for with all the engines swaps going on. If you are going to swap it's obvious the logical choice would be a 292 with a blower. Throw a couple of new axles and some brakes under it and good to go. Thank you for your time.

[pjmoreland]

Originally Posted by mick53

It seems that there would be a lot of 235's sitting around in peoples garages that they have no use for with all the engines swaps going on. If you are going to swap it's obvious the logical choice would be a 292 with a blower. Throw a couple of new axles and some brakes under it and good to go. Thank you for your time.

Now we're talking! Especially if you are donating those shiny parts to the project!!

[mick53]

The shipping would be way too much.

[pjmoreland]

Dang it!!

[dsraven]

if doing anything other than the stock engine remember your trans and driveshaft need to be kept or else the rear axle needs to be swapped out because of the toque tube driveshaft. thats not the end of the world but it adds to the budget and takes time. on the plus side there are swap brackets available and a different axle could come wth better gears for highway driving if thats what you plan.

[pjmoreland]

Interesting. I did not know it has a torque tube.