Make it handle

[robnolimit]

Ha ha ha, I guess the question is 'how few extra bucks'? That said, if you like sport-style driving, it's worth the extra to get the 15-1. You'll get more feed back from the tires, and better response.

[leftcoast66]

Originally Posted by robnolimit

Ha ha ha, I guess the question is 'how few extra bucks'? That said, if you like sport-style driving, it's worth the extra to get the 15-1. You'll get more feed back from the tires, and better response.

I hear you there, its the extra $60 for the AGR Mustang steering rack versus just getting a stock mustang rack.

[robnolimit]

Congrats to Grimee, he toughed out the rain and made a great showing at Pleasanton. He made 6 or 7 runs saturday afternoon, settled into a smooth driving pattern, and cut some good times. His rear suspsension works very well. We talked about tires, springs, shocks and swaybars. I expect him to be at the next event running even harder and faster.

[Rstone1]

Originally Posted by robnolimit

Congrats to Grimee, he toughed out the rain and made a great showing at Pleasanton. He made 6 or 7 runs saturday afternoon, settled into a smooth driving pattern, and cut some good times. His rear suspsension works very well. We talked about tires, springs, shocks and swaybars. I expect him to be at the next event running even harder and faster.

Congrats Grimee. I wish I could have been in on that conversation. I think i'm at a good starting place with my rear suspension. I going to use factory truck arms since I have two sets. I will stitch weld the seams and put some good bushings in them. Modify the rear of the for my Panhard bar. Cantilever the rear coil overs. I think my blazer is probably a little heavier than Grimee's Taheo so I'll start with 600lb springs. Rob what coil overs would you recommend since i' starting from scratch?

I hope to have the Blazer on my frame table in the next couple of weeks then I can start mocking things up.
Posted via Mobile Device

[robnolimit]

It's worth the 60 bucks. With my best politically correct tone, I have a long standing relationship with both Romic, and Ride Tech. Most of Romic's valving is based on our work at No Limit, thats a plus for me, - but, currently only avail with rebound adjustment. (single adjustable). I have tested and ran on the Ride Techs as well, and they are a very good shock. Fox has done there homework. RideTec's plus, they have double, and now tripple adjustable shocks. So, it may be a budget call. Teck tip: use a long stroke shock. 5" is good, with a 12" spring, this will give you more tuning options later.

[leftcoast66]

Originally Posted by robnolimit

It's worth the 60 bucks.

Thanks Rob, you're a wealth of info, I really appreciate the help and advice you bring to the table.

I wasn't sure if 15:1 would be too twitchy but I agree it'll be really responsive and great to drive with. I appreciate the 2nd opinion. I'm getting antsy to start building.

[Rstone1]

Originally Posted by robnolimit

It's worth the 60 bucks. With my best politically correct tone, I have a long standing relationship with both Romic, and Ride Tech. Most of Romic's valving is based on our work at No Limit, thats a plus for me, - but, currently only avail with rebound adjustment. (single adjustable). I have tested and ran on the Ride Techs as well, and they are a very good shock. Fox has done there homework. RideTec's plus, they have double, and now tripple adjustable shocks. So, it may be a budget call. Teck tip: use a long stroke shock. 5" is good, with a 12" spring, this will give you more tuning options later.

Didn't want to put you on the spot like that. Up I appricate your honesty. I am trying to figure a budget. Trying to get the most I can for what money I have to spend.
Posted via Mobile Device

[robnolimit]

Todays conversation, Can a sway bar be too big? Well yes. When a swaybar becomes so big that it starts to take pressure OFF of the inside tire, due to the forces of gravity acting on the CG (forced body roll), then it's too big. You may see impressive looking pictures of racecars with one wheel off the ground, but think about it. If one tire is off, then three have to do the work of four, and the tire loads go up. The chance of a 1G turn goes down. There is a balance between springs, shocks and swaybars. If you go too stiff, you might as well install some tubing inplace of the shock, and lock the suspension, but we all know that would handle like the old red wagon. Keep that thought in mind when choosing bar sizes.

[Rstone1]

My question would be how do you figure out were to start with your sway bar size. and what determines if you go up in size or down in size?

[66shortwide]

I also would like to know how do you decide on a starting point for sway bar rate. Is there a standard rate to start with based on weight, or should it be based on something else? My truck(66) has c4 vette front and rear suspension with coilovers - was going to start with the stock vette bars, but I think i'm going to go with a set of splined bars.

[ItsRandy]

Originally Posted by robnolimit

Todays conversation, Can a sway bar be too big? Well yes. When a swaybar becomes so big that it starts to take pressure OFF of the inside tire, due to the forces of gravity acting on the CG (forced body roll), then it's too big. You may see impressive looking pictures of racecars with one wheel off the ground, but think about it. If one tire is off, then three have to do the work of four, and the tire loads go up. The chance of a 1G turn goes down. There is a balance between springs, shocks and swaybars. If you go too stiff, you might as well install some tubing inplace of the shock, and lock the suspension, but we all know that would handle like the old red wagon. Keep that thought in mind when choosing bar sizes.

Rob, I have a 69 C10 long bed trailing arms, 500 hp big block, 4/6 drop (springs/spindles) mostly street driven, some drag race. I've been looking at NASCAR style sway bar for the rear, what would you recommend?

[robnolimit]

On most C-10 trucks, I would start at 1 1/4 to 1 3/8 front, and 1 1/8 to 1 1/4 rear. Theseare solid bar sizes. I am working on a simple sway bar tuning sheet that I should be able to post up in a few days.

[Rstone1]

Originally Posted by robnolimit

On most C-10 trucks, I would start at 1 1/4 to 1 3/8 front, and 1 1/8 to 1 1/4 rear. Theseare solid bar sizes. I am working on a simple sway bar tuning sheet that I should be able to post up in a few days.

Thanks for the reply. Thats about what I was thinking as a starting point. 1 3/8 or 1 1/2" front bar and 1 1/4 rear. I figure my Blazer is going to be a little more top heavy and will probably weight more than a truck and will require a little more bar. Am I thinking about this right?

[robnolimit]

First off, choose the right bar diameter. I'd start with a 1 1/4" .090 wall bar. With a 1 1/4" 48 spline bar, you can change to a different bar wall thickness, and all the other hardware will stay the same. Try mounting the bar over the top of the frame, in front of the axle. You'll have to pull the bed. Use a 12 to 13" arm length, and try to keep the connecting link 6 to 7" long

[CSGAS]

Page 32 is very nice in this month's Hot Rod Magazine, Rob

[robnolimit]

Originally Posted by CSGAS

Page 32 is very nice in this month's Hot Rod Magazine, Rob

Thanks. It's very flattering, and puts an even bigger target on our backs. Hope we can live up to the hype.

[slow4dr]

Rob, did you sign up for the NMCA autocross @ Fontana in July? Or are you going to Columbus that weekend?

[robnolimit]

It looks like a cool event, but we'l be in Columbus. Make sure you friend us on facebook and you'll get live updates during tha show.

[robnolimit]

Some thoughts about Acremen. This is the word, to describe the relationship of a component of steering geometry that deals with the turning rates of the two front tires. When a car/truck goes around a corner, the INSIDE front tire is making a slightly sharper turn than the OUTSIDE front tire. The sharper the turn, the more the difference is in the two turning rates. In simple terms, if a line was drwn from the center of the rear axle, forward and through the lower ball joint, and continue on that line, the Outer Tie Rod Pivit point should be on that line. That means that a rear steer set up should have the pivit 'inboard' of the ball joint, and a front steer set up should have the pivit 'outboard' of the ball joint.
What can you do to change it? Not much, unless you want to cut up and modify some spindles. The key players in Acremen are the spindles, the wheel base, and the track width.

[Scot_Douglas]

Rob - I am NOT picking on you, but I thought I'd post up the proper spelling of "Ackerman" in case anyone wants to research more on it.

I realize you have near zero free time to post here, but still do because you like to help people out. Sometimes a function of that is fast typing and not having time to proof-read what you write before you fly off to take care of all your other responsibilities.

Thank you for all your thoughts and sharing!

Scot

[robnolimit]

OOPS, right you are. Sorry about that one

[robnolimit]

Des Moines - Columbus GoodGuys Looks like we're heading to the mid-west for these two shows. We'd like to meet some of the forum members if your going. Most of the time we'll be in the Autocross area, so stop by and say hi. If your not going, click 'like' on our facebook page, No Limit Engineering, and get live updates, picts, and video of the events.

[robnolimit]

Here goes. There are a bunch of chassis and suspension builders out there who claim to have great handling products. I CHALLENGE YOU to show up to Des Moines and/or Columbus and PROVE IT. The truck class needs more hard chargers. Lets show everyone that a well built truck CAN out handle a muscle car. Hope to see you there!

[Scot_Douglas]

Originally Posted by robnolimit

Here goes. There are a bunch of chassis and suspension builders out there who claim to have great handling products. I CHALLENGE YOU to show up to Des Moines and/or Columbus and PROVE IT. The truck class needs more hard chargers. Lets show everyone that a well built truck CAN out handle a muscle car. Hope to see you there!

Maybe Columbus.

[Tony@AirRideTech]

Originally Posted by robnolimit

Here goes. There are a bunch of chassis and suspension builders out there who claim to have great handling products. I CHALLENGE YOU to show up to Des Moines and/or Columbus and PROVE IT. The truck class needs more hard chargers. Lets show everyone that a well built truck CAN out handle a muscle car. Hope to see you there!

Dude..... Im comin and Im bringin the dually with me!