New vs. building old one

[Hubscrub]

Old cars/trucks in my experience are very reliable. I own a 97 newest thing i have and also has been the most $$$ for repairs compared to my 80's and 70's cars/trucks. My wife has a 2002 truck that has left her on the side of the road 3 times. I have an 86 ss monte carlo that i know i've not spent over a $1000 since i've had it on repairs. I bought it when i was 17 and now 29 the 305 doesn't use a drop of oil with working on 200,000 miles on it.

The point i wanted to make is below

The previous owners has alot to do with it to most of my stuff was well taken care of ALSO the "new" replacement parts you buy now aren't always the best quality out there anymore (overseas) i always try to buy the best i can.

[tucsonjwt]

I think the cost of owning an old square should be divided into two parts: maintenance and repair.
Maintenance is: tires, brakes, alignment, oil/filter changes, battery, wiper blades, light bulbs, wash and wax, paint touch up, etc.
Repair is: everything else that breaks.
Maintenance will be done on any vehicle - new or old. Repairs will be done more often on old vehicles. If you buy a new vehicle you will have 3 years or 36,000 miles of no repair cost. If you take good care of that new vehicle you will have low repair costs for years more. When repairs are needed on newer vehicles the repair cost is more, so I would be inclined to trade the new vehicle in or sell it after 3 years.
If you wait until your old square breaks down and then fix it, then the repair cost per year will be low. If you keep everything in top mechanical shape, then your repair cost per year will be high - until you have repaired/replaced everything.

[KMK454]

No matter how you slice it, cars suck the bank account dry old or new. I would love a 2011 Chevy 2500HD Diesel CC Short bed 4x4 Z71 with the 20" factory five-spokes... but that's a $50k truck. Nix the 4x4, Z71, and go with the gas motor, and you can get it for about $34k with no other options (still has AC, stereo, etc). Still a lot of money.

$25k for a V6 1500 W/T is a ripoff.

[406 Q-ship]

I am a fan of the old over the new. If you have the ability to do the repairs and are willing to keep an eye out for problems driving an old vehicle, then an older vehicle wil destroy a new vehilce for costs. I will explain.....

A new truck has a payment, you have to carry full coverage ins, DMV fees are higher (well in CA they are), that truck will loose value, cost of maintance is higher (higher tech costs more money). It will probably leave you on the side of road less, but it still can and after the warrenty is up....bend over and smile!

An old truck has NO payment book and the intitial buy in price is anywhere from 10 to 50% the cost of a stripper new truck. Insurance is just liability, that is a huge savings right there over the course of a 6 year loan. If you can do the mainetance and repairs on the older truck (not possible for the average shadetree on a new truck) the parts are way cheaper except the sweat equity is much higher. If bought right an later squarebody will have damn near all the amendities of a newer truck like A/C (you may have make it work), power windows, power locks, higher level of insulation (sound deadner), overdrive transmission, fuel injection, and cushy seat covering. Will a 30 year old truck leave you stranded sometimes....yeap, but if you keep an eye/ear out for problems it will not be any worse than a new truck. remember these 73-87 trucks were new once and used for long distance runs, towing, going camping, and hauling trash. They are still as capable today as they were 30 to 40 years ago. The mileage is a poor reason too, if you can do the tune up, class for class the older truck will not be that far off the new truck to offset the fuel savings, besides do like I did and put a 700R4 in there to get the mileage up.

The newest vehicle I ever owned was a 1986 Monte Carlo SS (it was in 1989) and now the 1974 C1O is the newest vehicle. My 74 C10 I am into it for a little over 4500 and it would still be at that cost except my father granaded the goodwrench 350 in it. That truck has carried me to Northern Calif and Las Vegas (3 times) getting 17 MPG with the A/C and stereo thumppin, I add power windows and sound deadner......the best part of all I get compliments (get that with a 400 a month truck payment!) and the statisfaction of building it myself. I have driven my non A/C 1968 Chevelle to FL twice pulling 21 MPG with a car that I run at open track events, people ask how I could drive a old car across country.....I anwser "at high speeds!!!" What do people think we did when these vehicles were new?

[DetroitDan]

Very well said. I especially like the part about what people did with these trucks when they were new.

When I was in high school, my truck was working everyday as a wrecker, hauling cars and trucks for a dealership. That's not an easy life. Up until a few years ago, it was making yearly trips from northern NH to Maryland hauling huge loads of Christmas trees. They weren't afraid to take it on long trips. I still am, a little bit, but I'm building up confidence.

[Axle]

My truck has left me stranded once, make that twice. First time was before I even owned it, the fuel pump gave up on the test drive (no tow truck involved, owner and I pushed it a few yards into a service station. Talk about picking the right spot to coast to a stop, back on the road in an hour--the shop had a fuel pump on hand!). Second time, it wasn't even the truck but the battery that decided it was no longer going to be a battery. I've driven it all over, hauled trailers long distance, always got to where I intended to go. I have not even had a flat tire away from home (picked up a few nails over the years, but the tire went flat in the driveway while sitting overnight).

I attribute it to the fact my truck likes me, as I didn't walk away from her on that test drive where I suppose she actually tested me. =-)

My "new" & "reliable" work trucks on the other hand, those have given me fits over the years and been hauled away by tow trucks often. (fuel pumps, throttle bodies, ignition system being the main culprits over the years). Being the only driver its not as if I ignore them, I treat them as I do my own truck. Anything odd that crops up, I check into it, but unlike my truck, when they don't want to run, they flat out don't do anything. Just sit there with a warning light angrily glowering at you. My current '09 has had two throttle bodies, first within a week of getting the thing, and the other less than 20k miles later. My truck on the other hand, has a carburetor thats been metering fuel since 1981.

Alex.

[Hubscrub]

Originally Posted by 406 Q-ship

I am a fan of the old over the new. If you have the ability to do the repairs and are willing to keep an eye out for problems driving an old vehicle, then an older vehicle wil destroy a new vehilce for costs. I will explain.....

A new truck has a payment, you have to carry full coverage ins, DMV fees are higher (well in CA they are), that truck will loose value, cost of maintance is higher (higher tech costs more money). It will probably leave you on the side of road less, but it still can and after the warrenty is up....bend over and smile!

An old truck has NO payment book and the intitial buy in price is anywhere from 10 to 50% the cost of a stripper new truck. Insurance is just liability, that is a huge savings right there over the course of a 6 year loan. If you can do the mainetance and repairs on the older truck (not possible for the average shadetree on a new truck) the parts are way cheaper except the sweat equity is much higher. If bought right an later squarebody will have damn near all the amendities of a newer truck like A/C (you may have make it work), power windows, power locks, higher level of insulation (sound deadner), overdrive transmission, fuel injection, and cushy seat covering. Will a 30 year old truck leave you stranded sometimes....yeap, but if you keep an eye/ear out for problems it will not be any worse than a new truck. remember these 73-87 trucks were new once and used for long distance runs, towing, going camping, and hauling trash. They are still as capable today as they were 30 to 40 years ago. The mileage is a poor reason too, if you can do the tune up, class for class the older truck will not be that far off the new truck to offset the fuel savings, besides do like I did and put a 700R4 in there to get the mileage up.

The newest vehicle I ever owned was a 1986 Monte Carlo SS (it was in 1989) and now the 1974 C1O is the newest vehicle. My 74 C10 I am into it for a little over 4500 and it would still be at that cost except my father granaded the goodwrench 350 in it. That truck has carried me to Northern Calif and Las Vegas (3 times) getting 17 MPG with the A/C and stereo thumppin, I add power windows and sound deadner......the best part of all I get compliments (get that with a 400 a month truck payment!) and the statisfaction of building it myself. I have driven my non A/C 1968 Chevelle to FL twice pulling 21 MPG with a car that I run at open track events, people ask how I could drive a old car across country.....I anwser "at high speeds!!!" What do people think we did when these vehicles were new?

I agree 100% my 86 monte ss is a great car very little problems with it all these years!

Originally Posted by Axle

My truck has left me stranded once, make that twice. First time was before I even owned it, the fuel pump gave up on the test drive (no tow truck involved, owner and I pushed it a few yards into a service station. Talk about picking the right spot to coast to a stop, back on the road in an hour--the shop had a fuel pump on hand!). Second time, it wasn't even the truck but the battery that decided it was no longer going to be a battery. I've driven it all over, hauled trailers long distance, always got to where I intended to go. I have not even had a flat tire away from home (picked up a few nails over the years, but the tire went flat in the driveway while sitting overnight).

I attribute it to the fact my truck likes me, as I didn't walk away from her on that test drive where I suppose she actually tested me. =-)

My "new" & "reliable" work trucks on the other hand, those have given me fits over the years and been hauled away by tow trucks often. (fuel pumps, throttle bodies, ignition system being the main culprits over the years). Being the only driver its not as if I ignore them, I treat them as I do my own truck. Anything odd that crops up, I check into it, but unlike my truck, when they don't want to run, they flat out don't do anything. Just sit there with a warning light angrily glowering at you. My current '09 has had two throttle bodies, first within a week of getting the thing, and the other less than 20k miles later. My truck on the other hand, has a carburetor thats been metering fuel since 1981.

Alex.

Yea the only times i been on the side of the road was in "new models" 2002 to be exact at least you have a chance to fix an older one.

[86ktwenty]

Build it. My 83 one ton does everything. Its a work truck/grocery getter/soccer dad rig/parts hauler/camping rig/tow rig/mud truck/coyote chaser/recovery rig. I've ivested about $200 in it, and that's including purchase price. If you're competent at maintianing them, old rigs are the way to go.

[irishman999]

I think the strongest voice of reason mentioned is NO PAYMENTS!

I financed a truck for 14k in 2006, by 2009 I owed 2k. 2009 my "secure future" job I had just landed was laying everyone off 6 months later. The truck needed tires and a water pump.

By April of 09 I just landed a job and was not going to get a paycheck for at least 3 weeks, finance company would not cut me any more slack and I was hiding the truck with that sinking feeling knowing I might come outside and find it gone.

Repo guys caught up with me in very rural New Mexico at my parents place on a dirt road that is not even listed on a map. This property is 20 miles from a small town and even if I drew you a map you still might not find it, yet these guys rolled up in a brand new one ton chevy truck and first thing they said was who they were looking for and it was me.

Gave it up, let them have it, to stressfull to try and hide it any longer.

Fast forward 2 years and they are still trying to locate me so they can sue me for the remaining 2k I owed which is now alot more.

yeah I will just drive old junk from now on.

[tucsonjwt]

I think it is great that people posting here have trucks that have never let them down. i, however, have owned 3 old squares and all 3 of them have broken down on multiple occasions, even with diligent preventive maintenance. So, if I absolutely needed a reliable daily driver I would not trust an old truck. Judging from some of the other posts on this forum I think others have trucks with pesky persistent problems (starting, driveability, etc.) which bring into question reliability on at least some of these old trucks.

[Keith Seymore]

Count me as one that has never been stranded.

It's been a daily driver for 25 years - in fact it's birthday is October 2nd (coming up!).

K

[sumran]

Originally Posted by tucsonjwt

I think it is great that people posting here have trucks that have never let them down. i, however, have owned 3 old squares and all 3 of them have broken down on multiple occasions, even with diligent preventive maintenance. So, if I absolutely needed a reliable daily driver I would not trust an old truck. Judging from some of the other posts on this forum I think others have trucks with pesky persistent problems (starting, driveability, etc.) which bring into question reliability on at least some of these old trucks.

If you have gone through the major systems of an old truck, they can be as reliable as the newer ones. The basic design of the trucks has not changed much. Fuel, air and ignition control have been changed for economy and emissions. The new systems are not inherently more reliable, but they have advantages for their intended purpose. Newer transmissions improve economy and performance, but the failure rate is not that different.

The decreased reliability issues on the older trucks come from one or two places: modifications and parts quality. When we start changing the design of the trucks it sometimes has unintended consequences. For example, I put in headers but the extra heat causes starter or wiring problems. Aftermarket parts are often lower quality than the original due to price pressure. Sometimes that matter a little, sometimes it matters a lot.

If you build one carefully, don't cut corners and think through the design issues, you can end up with a very reliable old truck. It won't be cheap but it will be cheaper than buying new, assuming you don't pay for or attach a cost to labor. It will have a higher operating cost than a new one. Many people don't want to go through that process and that is fine. If you need reliable and predictable and don't want to do a full build, buy newer. If you can live with the adventure of an old truck that has some mysteries, you can skip some of the build process.

[motornut]

bought a 03 Grand Am to be reliable.......and save gas.....
bought another truck to get to work when the GA anti theft kicks in and won't start
it's the key thing replaced it once ,now doing it again
since owned i've done done 3 wheel bearings
AC X2....once under warrenty
brakes.tires X2
new batt
fuel pump
and recently the crank seal and some balancer kit at 130,000 KMS

yup so glad i'm savin that gas, pays for the rest
and i can drive the truck while the car gets fixed lol

[406 Q-ship]

Originally Posted by tucsonjwt

I think it is great that people posting here have trucks that have never let them down. i, however, have owned 3 old squares and all 3 of them have broken down on multiple occasions, even with diligent preventive maintenance. So, if I absolutely needed a reliable daily driver I would not trust an old truck. Judging from some of the other posts on this forum I think others have trucks with pesky persistent problems (starting, driveability, etc.) which bring into question reliability on at least some of these old trucks.

and there are brand new vehicles that have presistent problems too. Like I said you must be willing to listen to what the vehicle is telling you.....where it is old or new. I don't know how many vehicles I worked on or hear daily where the brakes are squealing against the rotors, the driver totally ignoring them with the stereo blasting (1st repair procedure turn the radio up to cover the sound). Alot of the repairs on old vehicles that are less than reliable are ones where some yahoo somewhere thinks he knows better than the original manufacture and do some hokie repair (read that as mickey mouse), I have fought repairs many over 30 years of service life on most vehicles I have owned.

[billnorman]

I own an 85 and an 07 Chev P/U. You can walk down the bed rails on the '85 and not leave a mark. The rails of the '07 are dented to hell and back from leaning on them to load the bed. The difference in metal thickness is about 2:1 on the body's. The paint on the '07 is so thin it scratches if you look at it sideways, and when you shut the doors (x-cab) the whole side of the truck shakes. I would say if you need a family vehicle and can't drive a (Ford) buy a new GM truck, but don't expect much. And don't use it as a truck, it won't hold up.

[andrewmp6]

I love older cars and trucks,I bought a car on payments once years ago well it got totaled and i ended up eating about 1500 bucks when the insurance didn't cover all that was owed on it.But if i had to buy a newer truck it would be a ford super duty i know that's a dirty word here,But after driving my uncles 03 f350 i liked it was built like a truck should be no car like interior or all the extra stuff they try to put on newer trucks.

[tucsonjwt]

Just my luck - it looks like I bought the only 3 problem prone squares to get by Keith's supervision on the Flint assembly line.. They must have been built when he was on vacation.

[DetroitDan]

@ billnorman, I've been hearing reports that the new trucks are made out of such thin sheetmetal that they are having comebacks for ten small dents in the hood caused by slamming the hood too hard with your fingers on it. I've heard of people pushing a pallet in with the second pallet (common forklift practice) and the front of the bed is not strong enough to stop the pallet, so you buckle the bed front wall, damage the cab and of course blow out the rear window. Even the glass is thinner, to save weight. It's just like the new water bottles, they keep finding ways to make the plastic thinner and thinner until there's almost nothing there. Well, I need my truck to do more than just hold 16 oz of water.
You cannot step up on the bedrail, and I am certain you can't step on the roof. Good thing most people never need to stand on their roof.
When I got up in my truck to start painting the roof, I found a bunch of large sneaker prints. No dents or creases either.
I love the idea of a high output diesel engine with 6 forward gears and outrageous (obviously inflated) towing and horsepower figures, and while I admit I do like the return to vertically stacked headlights on the new GMs, I can't help but look at them and think of nothing but their flimsy sheetmetal construction. A shopping cart could probably total one.
I do worry about all the things that are aged and could go wrong at any time. My newest chore is waiting in line to pick up 2 of my kids at their school, since there's no busing. I dread the thought of going to start the truck to move up and hear a click. But, all I can do is hope for the best, and when something goes bad, replace it and hope it lasts as long as the original.
A little more reliability and a lot more fuel economy would be nice right now, but I'm still spending less in repairs and fuel than I would spend making a payment on even a stripper. And I take a perverse pleasure sitting in the school line between dozens of new minivans, SUVs, and crossover SUVs, getting sideways looks from soccer moms who must be wondering what the hell is wrong with me.

[Keith Seymore]

Originally Posted by tucsonjwt

Just my luck - it looks like I bought the only 3 problem prone squares to get by Keith's supervision on the Flint assembly line.. They must have been built when he was on vacation.

Sorry 'bout that - If I had known they were yours we would have been more careful...

[KMK454]

I really want a new 2500HD crew cab short bed... saw this at a local Camaro meet:



I'd love it in black with a long trailer to tow my truck and Camaro!

[Telecasterjoey]

Bringing back and old thread here but..........

I've been thinking bout giving up on my daily driver 97 gmc 1500. something's always breaking on it, there are close to 400000 kms on it and the body is past what I would like to repair lol. So I've found myself driving past the dealership seriously considering financing a 2012 or 2013 silverado or sierra 1500 wt for $25000, but every time I crunch the numbers, Monthly payment (never had one before), Insurance increase, probably not a noticeable mileage increase, and regular maintenance I think If only I had that 25,000$ or even half of it I could build my 86 sierra to be better than new, All new engine, driveline, new paint ect. Or even find a straight frame and clean cab with a title and buy all new parts I could probably do it for less than a new one......

My question has anyone done it? taken a loan or been fortunate enough to have the funds and order everything new?

I know there are a lot of nice cheap dd build threads on here, Keith seymour's comes to mind, But has anyone bought everything brand new? like went nuts and ordered all new interior, crate engine, brand new or fresh rebuilt trans, rebuilt rear end, new stock painless wiring harness, all NOS or Aftermarket sheet metal? new dash pad new carpet new rad new.... well you get it, NEW EVERYTHING!

Can it be done for less than 15,000$ Assuming you'd do all the work yourself minus paint maybe? obviously using comparable to stock parts like the goodwrench 350 from jegs for 1400$

I'm aware you could spend 100,000$ if you felt like it i'm just wondering if you could order all new parts and reassemble them for less than the cost of a new truck?

yezzi's bluej thread also inspires me to do this, one clean build and exactly what I picture this brand new 86 truck to look like (well at least the chassis and driveline:
http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=496609

[billnorman]

One thing, if you want a loan it will come with higher interest than a regular car loan because it will be unsecured unless it's against something like a house that you own.
That said, I'm still driving my old '85 C10. Just blew out a muffler and needs an idler arm kit, but it looks better with the nice chrome 20's.
My dream is to buy a rolled or totalled 2007 or better with the 5.3 or better yet a 6.0 and change the frame, engine, and all the running gear and electronics. My old '85 isn't AC'd and the heater is lame especially in the summer LOL. My '85 weighs 3800 or so, the new x-cab I bought (yucchhh) is around 5100. If I get lucky and buy one that doesn't suck oil like my 2007 it should really move AND deliver 20MPG+ if driven half sensibly.
An added bonus, you could use it as a truck.

[motornut]

Originally Posted by Telecasterjoey

Bringing back and old thread here but..........

I've been thinking bout giving up on my daily driver 97 gmc 1500. something's always breaking on it, there are close to 400000 kms on it and the body is past what I would like to repair lol. So I've found myself driving past the dealership seriously considering financing a 2012 or 2013 silverado or sierra 1500 wt for $25000, but every time I crunch the numbers, Monthly payment (never had one before), Insurance increase, probably not a noticeable mileage increase, and regular maintenance I think If only I had that 25,000$ or even half of it I could build my 86 sierra to be better than new, All new engine, driveline, new paint ect. Or even find a straight frame and clean cab with a title and buy all new parts I could probably do it for less than a new one......

My question has anyone done it? taken a loan or been fortunate enough to have the funds and order everything new?

I know there are a lot of nice cheap dd build threads on here, Keith seymour's comes to mind, But has anyone bought everything brand new? like went nuts and ordered all new interior, crate engine, brand new or fresh rebuilt trans, rebuilt rear end, new stock painless wiring harness, all NOS or Aftermarket sheet metal? new dash pad new carpet new rad new.... well you get it, NEW EVERYTHING!

Can it be done for less than 15,000$ Assuming you'd do all the work yourself minus paint maybe? obviously using comparable to stock parts like the goodwrench 350 from jegs for 1400$

I'm aware you could spend 100,000$ if you felt like it i'm just wondering if you could order all new parts and reassemble them for less than the cost of a new truck?

yezzi's bluej thread also inspires me to do this, one clean build and exactly what I picture this brand new 86 truck to look like (well at least the chassis and driveline:
http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=496609

I'd get rust free "southern" truck
you would be further ahead,prob not everything would need replacement

[Telecasterjoey]

Originally Posted by motornut

I'd get rust free "southern" truck
you would be further ahead,prob not everything would need replacement

haha thats true! that would make more sense, put new drive train in it and call it done.....

[gearheads78]

For those of you that think you are home free for repairs on a new truck you need to wake up. I make my living as a service writer and I see stuff out of warranty daily on newer cars and trucks. Small example I deal with
- too many modules trying to do thier thing at the same time causing a logic lock and shut down of one or more systems ( $200 repair fixed 2 in the last week)
- lifter / cam failure on AFM trucks ($4000.00 repair I have had 3 in last month)
- failed cam acctuators and solinoids ( can't count all these I fix)
- failed door lock acctuators (these either)
- bad battery cables causing all kinds of electrical grimlins (200-400.00 I do 2-3 a week)
- electric power steering (I worked for Lexus and they almost always failed before 75K and now GM is putting in about anything coming out including the 2014 trucks)
- intake gaskets (3 this week already)
- electric thermostats failing constantly
- air bag light because your kids stuck his foot under the back of the front seat and disturbed the connector ( a least once a week)
I could go on and on.