Glock's new project: "Fred" w/ 5.3L LS swap info

[glock35ipsc]

Originally Posted by Thealien

Thanks for the update and costs. Pretty reasonable if you consider a crate engine in the neighborhood of $1500-2000 without intake or serpentine belt assy and about $1000 for a transmission and you still need sme wiring and fuel tank work its kind of in the same ballpark?!

How many hours do you think you have in it, or what do you think would be a good estimate for a first time installation?

If you do a book, put me in line I will happily buy one.

Who did you have do your computer?

I think I figured that I had 9 total working days in the swap. That just includes actual time spent on the truck, but not prep like cleaning and painting. I owe the relatively short amount of time to all the studying I did before I ever loosened a bolt. I had a plan before I ever started. I could have done it a little faster I think, but I wanted it to look like a well planned install, not just a quick weekend swap fest.

Jessee at wait4meperformance.com did the harness and PCM. He has done several other PCM tunes for me over the years, and he has always done right by me.

Originally Posted by Thealien

Just got off the phone with a local wrecking yard. They can sell me a complete 5.3 with a 2WD (or 4WD) transmission, harness, DBW pedal assy, TAC and computer complete, shipped for $1500 with about 50K on the clock. I am having a hard time finding a reason not to do this?!

The only reason I would consider 2WD is I could install and get running while I rebuild the transfer case and can eventually afford to have a transmission rebuilt with an output shaft and adapter that would allow connection to my NP205.

That is a very good price! I will be doing a swap in my 70 K10 in the future, and may just swap the engine instead of doing the trans too. This truck gets driven very little, mostly when it's needed to work. The TH350 was rebuilt about 15 years ago, but has less than 10,000 miles on it and work great and still shifts very hard. Just a cheap torque converter adapter and I won't have to change a thing with the trans/transfer case, just need to get the engine mounted. I'll do a cable TB too, that will help keep the cost down too.

Originally Posted by HuggerCST

Wow, that's great mileage Bob. If it would have gotten that kind of mileage when I had it, I'd still own it.

LOL, I bet!!! I love driving this truck, and it gets a lot of compliments with the lower stance, new rear bumper and the way it sounds with the tailpipes and tips now. Even more so when I open the hood!

[Jonboy]

The output for the front driveshaft is on the wrong side to go 4wd on an older truck.

[glock35ipsc]

There are several companies making adapters/output shafts that allow you to bolt up the truck's existing transfer case to a 4L60E or 4L80E.

[Jonboy]

Originally Posted by glock35ipsc

There are several companies making adapters/output shafts that allow you to bolt up the truck's existing transfer case to a 4L60E or 4L80E.

Excellent. We bought a donor at the salvage auction, and after looking at it and the '71 Blazer, decided to go another route. We didn't look real far into the swap after that. Cool to know, though.

[68 TT]

Originally Posted by glock35ipsc

There are several companies making adapters/output shafts that allow you to bolt up the truck's existing transfer case to a 4L60E or 4L80E.

For the 4L60E you can just find an 90 to 91 Suburban transfer case and adapter. It uses the NP241C transfer case with the passenger side drop we need and has the electronically controlled speedometer you need for the conversion too.

For the 4L80E you can use a custom adapter flange to fit the 2-wd trans to a T-400 NP205 transfer case and adapter housing. Take a look at NP205.org for this.

[Thealien]

I looked at those options also and wasn't sure about where the shifter for the TC would end up. My floor has been lined so I didn't want to have to cut the floor any. With the way I plan on ending up the NP205 with the advance adapters shaft


FOUND HERE

And the 4 bolt to 6 bolt adapter with VSS


HERE Will allow me to keep my NP205, my shifter in the stock location, with VSS provisions for the 4L60. I will have to mount the engine 1 7/8 inches further forward than stock but have not heard any issues with that yet.

[Thumpin455]

Im thinking of a 6.2L 4L80E swap in the 76, I can get one surprisingly cheap up here. They cant move the thing and its just sitting there. Maybe in the spring I'll do it.

Did you ever get it running on E85? Im making fuel at home from cattails and potatoes, so that part of this thread interests me most. I found with my 98 Formula Firebird that the LSx engines need a bit of tuning and a little larger injector to run E85/E100 without a piggy back. I can run 60% ethanol in the Formula without a lean code on stock injectors. Sorry I came in the thread late, and reading 45 pages would be a bit much.

[joe231]

Originally Posted by glock35ipsc

LOL, sorry Joe! I got the average run of the mill 2006 Gen III LM7, 295hp & 325 ft/lbs.

well now I'm confused ....the info I'm reading online says that GM went to the Gen IV (LH5 iron block, LY5 aluminum block) in 2005?

[glock35ipsc]

Originally Posted by Thumpin455

Im thinking of a 6.2L 4L80E swap in the 76, I can get one surprisingly cheap up here. They cant move the thing and its just sitting there. Maybe in the spring I'll do it.

Did you ever get it running on E85? Im making fuel at home from cattails and potatoes, so that part of this thread interests me most. I found with my 98 Formula Firebird that the LSx engines need a bit of tuning and a little larger injector to run E85/E100 without a piggy back. I can run 60% ethanol in the Formula without a lean code on stock injectors. Sorry I came in the thread late, and reading 45 pages would be a bit much.

Haven't done the E85 piggyback yet. I wanted to get all the bugs worked out first before I do that. And, the truck will probably stay parked most of the winter unless the weather is nice, then it might come out for a cruise. I don't want it to sit all winter with E85 in the tanks, collecting moisture.

Originally Posted by joe231

well now I'm confused ....the info I'm reading online says that GM went to the Gen IV (LH5 iron block, Y5 aluminum block) in 2005?

5300

* Generation III– the LM7,LM4,L59, and L33 or the Vortec 5300 is a V8 truck engine. Offering 285-295 hp and with 325-335 ft lb torque. The 5300s are but in Canada, Us, and Mexico.

• LM7 – introduced in 1999 and considered the common variety of the 5300s.

• LM4 – was only produced for a short time and was an aluminum version of the LM7.

• L33 – this was an aluminum block version of the LM7. It offers 15 hp more. It was only available on extended cab 4WD pickup trucks.

• L59 – introduced in 2002, this was a flexible fuel version of the LM7.

* Generation IV – first introduced in 2005. There are four versions of the 5300 in production. The LY5 and LMG are iron block version. The LH6 and LC9 are aluminum block versions.

• LH6 – this version replaced the LM4 in 2005 and was the first of the Generation IV small block V8 truck engines to be produced. This is an aluminum block model.

• LY5– new in 2007, this Vortec 5300 is a replacement for the LM7 Generation III. In the SUV vehicles it offers 320 hp with 340 ft lb of torque. In pickup trucks, it offers 315 hp with 338 ft lb of torque.

• LMG - this is the Flex Fuel version of the LY5.

• LC9– This is the FlexFuel version of the LH6 and is used for 4WD models. In SUV models, it offers 310 hp and 335 ft lb of torque.

[glock35ipsc]

Originally Posted by 68 TT

For the 4L60E you can just find an 90 to 91 Suburban transfer case and adapter. It uses the NP241C transfer case with the passenger side drop we need and has the electronically controlled speedometer you need for the conversion too.

For the 4L80E you can use a custom adapter flange to fit the 2-wd trans to a T-400 NP205 transfer case and adapter housing. Take a look at NP205.org for this.

For mine I'll be sticking with either the original TH350, or using a 700R4. I don't want to swap out the original gauges. Either of these two will make the swap simple and inexpensive. Staying with the TH350, I will only need the spacer ($32). If I go with a 700R4, I will still need to spacer, but the trans will be cheap, and I can still keep the original gauges.

[joe231]

cool, thanks for the info....
I wasn't getting the whole story

[Thumpin455]

Ive had E85 sitting in my 70 GTO for two years, gets moved around the yard. It hasnt collected much moisture in that time. For it to be a real problem you would need to get over 10% water in it, you know a gallon of water in a ten gallon tank. It will evaporate before it sucks up a gallon of water in a truck. A boat might get that much if it gets swamped, but you would have to drive through a flood or something.

[mcbassin]

Originally Posted by Thumpin455

Ive had E85 sitting in my 70 GTO for two years, gets moved around the yard. It hasnt collected much moisture in that time. For it to be a real problem you would need to get over 10% water in it, you know a gallon of water in a ten gallon tank. It will evaporate before it sucks up a gallon of water in a truck. A boat might get that much if it gets swamped, but you would have to drive through a flood or something.

This is interesting. A few years back (more like 9) I went to newer gas station close to my home and I picked up a few quarts of water in a 99 Grand am. It trashed the fuel pump. Cost me about $400 if I remember correctly. With me doing the install.

[Thumpin455]

Ethanol will withstand much more water in it than will gasoline and still run fine. Gasoline wont take much water at all before your car wont run and it will start ruining parts.

Ethanol bonds with water in such a way that to separate the two you need to distill it. Also, contrary to what you might think, if you take ten gallons of ethanol and add two gallons of water you do not end up with 12 gallons, due to how it bonds. So the water left in it wont damage parts like it would if mixed with gasoline.

However, if you have too much water mixed with E85 or any ethanol blended gasoline, it will separate the ethanol and water from the gasoline if it sits for a long enough time. Also, ethanol with 10%-50% water mixed in it will pull bare aluminum into suspension, but like I mentioned above that is a bunch of water mixed with it.

Ive been working on producing fuel for a few years now, and I have found most negatives you read about to not be true or not entirely true. Making it myself frees up more $$$ for me to spend on things that are important to me rather than sending my $$$ overseas and to people who are already fabulously wealthy. Also its actually quite fun to work on that project and learn what it takes to make what amounts to race fuel for less than 40 cents a gallon.

[68 TT]

Originally Posted by Thealien

I looked at those options also and wasn't sure about where the shifter for the TC would end up. My floor has been lined so I didn't want to have to cut the floor any.

The 4L80E is 3" longer than the T-400 and the adapter plate is 1-1/4" thick so it will move the TC shifter back about 4-1/4".

An offset shifter handle may be able to take care of some of that but I don't know if it will be able to compensate for all of it. We will see.

I'm converting from an SM465 so mine will be moved quite a bit from the stock location.

[Thealien]

Originally Posted by 68 TT

The 4L80E is 3" longer than the T-400 and the adapter plate is 1-1/4" thick so it will move the TC shifter back about 4-1/4".

An offset shifter handle may be able to take care of some of that but I don't know if it will be able to compensate for all of it. We will see.

I'm converting from an SM465 so mine will be moved quite a bit from the stock location.

I am looking at the 4L60 which is shorter than the 4L80

A 350 is 21 5/8 to the flange

a 700R4 is 23 3/8 to the flange

a 4L60 is 21 3/4 and add the 1.5 inch adapter and it will be 1/8 shorter than a 700R4. The 700R4 is 1 3/4 inches longer than the TH350.

you can check my measurements
HERE and I posted the link to the 1.5 inch adapter in my earlier post.

[68 TT]

Originally Posted by Thealien

I am looking at the 4L60 which is shorter than the 4L80

A 350 is 21 5/8 to the flange

a 700R4 is 23 3/8 to the flange

a 4L60 is 21 3/4 and add the 1.5 inch adapter and it will be 1/8 shorter than a 700R4. The 700R4 is 1 3/4 inches longer than the TH350.

you can check my measurements
HERE and I posted the link to the 1.5 inch adapter in my earlier post.

The 21-3/4" number is to the trans mount point. Overall length for the later 4L60E is the same as the earlier ones. Driveshafts interchange without any issues from 84 to 2002 and probably later 700R4 , 4L60 and 4L60E.

[Thealien]

Originally Posted by 68 TT

The 21-3/4" number is to the trans mount point. Overall length for the later 4L60E is the same as the earlier ones. Driveshafts interchange without any issues from 84 to 2002 and probably later 700R4 , 4L60 and 4L60E.

Check my link again The mount is the C measurement. Measurement B the one I gave is to the flange. Are you saying all the measurements in that link and advance adapters is wrong?

My link lists the overall length of the 700R4 as 30"?

and the early 4L60 overall length as 30 3/4 "

and the later 4L60 overall length as 31 5/32

So I don't doubt the driveshafts interchange with them all being that close. My measurements are all to the flange due to having to mount them to a transfer case so what you're saying has no bearing on my measurements. I can understand where some confusion may come in because I mentioned installing a 2WD 4L60 but that would be temporary as I plan to end up using my NP205 transfer case in the final assembly. The 700R4 in 4X4 configuration is 1 3/4" longer than a TH350 in 4X4 configuration. A 4L60 with a 6 bolt to 4 bolt adapter is within an 1/8" to a 1/4" in length to a 700R4 in 4X4 configuration. I want to mount my engine 1 7/8 inches forward whether I install the transmission in 2WD or 4WD configuration so in the end my transfer case stays in the original location!

[menace121978]

whoa, to much confusion!! wheres the guy that made this all look so plain and simple???


BOB!!???

[68 TT]

Originally Posted by Thealien

Check my link again The mount is the C measurement. Measurement B the one I gave is to the flange. Are you saying all the measurements in that link and advance adapters is wrong?

My link lists the overall length of the 700R4 as 30"?

and the early 4L60 overall length as 30 3/4 "

and the later 4L60 overall length as 31 5/32

So I don't doubt the driveshafts interchange with them all being that close. My measurements are all to the flange due to having to mount them to a transfer case so what you're saying has no bearing on my measurements. I can understand where some confusion may come in because I mentioned installing a 2WD 4L60 but that would be temporary as I plan to end up using my NP205 transfer case in the final assembly. The 700R4 in 4X4 configuration is 1 3/4" longer than a TH350 in 4X4 configuration. A 4L60 with a 6 bolt to 4 bolt adapter is within an 1/8" to a 1/4" in length to a 700R4 in 4X4 configuration. I want to mount my engine 1 7/8 inches forward whether I install the transmission in 2WD or 4WD configuration so in the end my transfer case stays in the original location!

Sorry, too many variables.

The 700R4 and early 4L60 are the same thing with different names. There are early 4L60E's with integral bell housings and later 4L60E's with bolt on bell housings. The one you are referring to is the later 4L60E. When you said 4L60 I was thinking the older non-electronic trans.

The tail housing mounting flange distance may be quite different but the overall length is close enough that the driveshaft from any of them will work on any other one in 2-wd configuration. So in a factory 700R4 4x4 application you want the early one-piece bell housing 4L60E and not the later trans that comes behind the LSx motors.

In 4x4 configuration the 96-up bolt-on bell housing trans is shorter by 1-5/8" than the other versions. In your case with the T-350 conversion and using the adapter this newer trans will help you out so the engine doesn't have to be moved forward as far to keep the TC in the stock location.

With the 4L80E I would have to move the engine forward 3" over that of the T-400 setup after the adapter is in place to keep the TC in the stock T-400 location so the driveshafts are the same. Probably not going to work but I will give it a try. I hate spending money on custom driveshafts.

[soule64]

I just received the Kwik Performance A/C pump relocation kit for my 4.8 swap.

[68 TT]

Originally Posted by soule64

I just received the Kwik Performance A/C pump relocation kit for my 4.8 swap. I can measure the parts and draw everything out if you are still interested in going that route. There are no curved parts (except for the bushings) or welding required so I think it would be quite simple to make it yourself. $200 seems like quite a lot of money for what I got. Kwik didn't send the hardware (supposed to be included) so I have plenty of time.

If you can draw up the brackets and give some dimensions that would be a great resource to have for everybody.

[mcbassin]

Originally Posted by soule64

I just received the Kwik Performance A/C pump relocation kit for my 4.8 swap. I can measure the parts and draw everything out if you are still interested in going that route. There are no curved parts (except for the bushings) or welding required so I think it would be quite simple to make it yourself. $200 seems like quite a lot of money for what I got. Kwik didn't send the hardware (supposed to be included) so I have plenty of time.

You think you could take some high res pics of the kit and post them here? thanks

[lolife99]

http://www.kwikperf.com/

[soule64]

This is what I have - minus the hardware...