1947 Panel Truck Frame swap with ’88 k2500

[Second Series]

Originally Posted by dsraven

Sometimes I will insert a short length of hose into the grommet ant run just the wires through that rather than try to get the split loom to fit. That leaves somewhere for the split loom to be taped to as well. It also allows for the wires to be sealed so water doesn't come through into the cab if you happen to wash the engine or something.

I like that suggestion, Thanks.

Originally Posted by heartattack

Where did you purchase your firewall pad?

I got the firewall pad from Jim Carter, I only saw the plastic one in their catalog. I didn't spend a lot of time looking before ordering thinking I needed it right away. Later I found the fiber one like original from I think Chevy Duty. The original one was in pretty good shape before the restoration shop ripped it in half.

[Second Series]

I spent about three hours mounting the starter button bracket. I liked the way it felt when I pressed with my foot. I didn’t like how close the terminals were to the bell housing. I found a random bolt and added it as an extension to the linkage. I made a shorter button bracket and mounted that under the extension. That part only took an hour. The foot pedal throw didn’t feel right, wasn’t long enough. I was ready to call it quits for the day, but it was warm and there were a few hours of daylight left. I had given up on finding a solution that day, but I enjoy working on my truck so I continued with no expectation of results. I decided to try the first bracket in the new location. It worked well. I added a length of hose to the bolt to pad the button. I’ll need to get some ¼” lockwashers for the final mount.
I’ve been practicing the Oxy-Acetylene welding, 1,000 more hours and I’ll be ready for body work… I welded on the transfer case shifter bracket.
The inner fenders could use some rework. The fab shop left them in questionable shape, one has some thinner metal scabbed on, and the welding looks bad(pictures attached). I was able to repair some random cuts, but the rough spots with pin holes are giving me grief. None of this started as rusted through, it was all modified and poorly welded. The inner fenders were in otherwise good shape. I tried filling in pin holes with little success. I tried to cut out a small square, and patch in but that didn’t go so well. I watched some videos and have changed my technique. I’ll get on that next time I have some time.

[6DoF]

i really like keeping the foot switch!

[Second Series]

Originally Posted by 6DoF

i really like keeping the foot switch!

Thanks!

I think I’m getting better at welding. I decided the Left inner fender was good enough after welding and grinding multiple times. It’s no show winner, but it will be mostly out of sight. I applied Ospho, and some paint. I reworked some of the Right inner fender to eliminate the pin holes. I have watched a few videos, and read on a few welding forums. I read that there are three reasons for popping: Dirty tip, tips too big, or too much oxygen. Adjust the bigger flame to just before matching the smaller flame, adjust too far and it’s an oxidizing flame. With this info I got smaller welding rod, lowered the oxy pressure, and dialed the flame down to where I could just hear it. This combination worked with what I have to work with. I could use a smaller tip, but I’m happy with the results.
The battery has to go somewhere, as does the coolant reservoir. I put the Right inner fender back on the truck and used a cardboard template for the battery to determine placement. Some cutting and metal forming in the rain, a 4x4 was handy at the time. I’ll use the donor battery tray, it has a screw down block that grips the bottom edge of the battery. The test fit looks good, and the battery clears the hood spring.
After the inner fenders are installed, I can put in the inner firewall pad. I wirebrushed the dash and floor, applied Ospho, primered, and started paint.

[Second Series]

The weather is getting nicer, so I’m getting stuff done. I picked up some sheet metal from the local hardware store for the battery box. I cut out and pieced together the box overlapping the new 22Ga onto the rusty 18Ga. By the time it was done I was feeling more confident in my welding that I considered just making the whole box instead of piecing it together. I won’t get any welding certifications from this, but it will be functional.
Between welds, I worked on fitting the inner firewall cover. Set it in place, check for fit, mark, remove, cut and repeat many times. I realized that I do not have to have the inner fenders installed before installing the inner firewall cover since the fenders bolt to the kick panel. Progress is progress. The dash paint came out nice. It’s never too late to organize fasteners. I got tired of looking through the pile of bags of screws trying to figure out what was what.

[dsraven]

Looks good.
Tip: when welding clean the metal si its shiny on both sides. The weld draws in contaminants which cam make porosity, popping, etc. If mig welding cut the wire before each weld so the wire will chisel a clean arc spot and also not add contaminants from the little ball stuck to the end if the wire from the last weld. Angle the torch forward so the gas from the mig cleans the area forward of the weld before the puddle gets there.

[Second Series]

Thanks, This was Oxy-Acetylene. I’ll use O-A to repair the cracks on the rear door.
I installed the inner fenders, put in fresh oil and changed fluid in the transfer case. I got an economy squeeze bulb and spent probably and hour moving 2 ½ quarts, at least it was a nice day.
I started to thin the interior wiring harness by cutting off the bulkhead connector, and then the convenience center. I cut the buzzer module and relay sockets from the convenience center. Next I cut the e-tape, and bundled the wiring trying to isolate the extra wires from the convenience center that won’t be used. I tried to reshape the harness some. I made a box to mount the fuse panel and relays.
I re-used most of the clips from the original inner firewall pad, all the mounting holes lined up between the original firewall and the new firewall cover. One hole near the passenger side firewall stiffener was not working with the original clip. I could not find a modern body panel clip that would work. I ended up using an elevator bolt at that position.
The gasket on the top of the transmission was in rough shape. When I got the donor truck, the shifter was really loose, I would hit my knuckles on the dash. I tried to tighten the bolts but they were stripped, Two longer bolts worked, but the other Two didn’t so I used self tapping sheet metal screws. I didn’t drive the truck much and a couple years later the shifter was loose again. After much hemming and hawing I finally put a couple helicoils in. I was not looking forward to working on the top end of an aluminum transmission case, but in the end it was a solid fix that I felt good about. The original top gasket consists of a rubber gasket stuck to a metal plate. This is a 5LM60 transmission. I didn’t locate a replacement top gasket for this one, but I did find one for a NV3500, same case different guts. It is a thick rubber gasket. I tightened the screws down pretty good but there is some play in the top plate while shifting. I don’t feel comfortable over tightening the bolts and risking stripping the other two, so I might just go back with the original gasket.

[6DoF]

allstate gear was great for me, that's crazy they didn't have the right one.

thick bead of RTV like installing an intake on an old v8?

can you get a short-throw shifter kit for it that might come with new? ya know, cuz upgrade.

[Second Series]

I read some reviews of the gasket and they said it is better than the original. I got the part in just a few days and it looks good. Yesterday I watched some videos of rebuilding NV3500, and it looks like play in the top cover is typical, just doesn’t seem right to me. I’ll put threadlock on the bolts and go with it.

[6DoF]

i guess a shoulder bolt would do basically the same exact thing that the NV4500 spacers do, since there's nothing under the shift body. could you make a little spacer around the bolts, under the shifter body? thin tube that lets you torque the bolts and body against them and still slightly compress the gasket? should stabilize the shifter and still seal well.

i'm a huge fan of a tight shifter, none of that sloppy rubber isolated stuff.

this is an NV4500 shifter ...

[Second Series]

I like that idea, I might go with some spacers for the shift body.
I mounted the fuse panel to check for fit, pulled it back out and removed several wires that were going to the convenience center. I wired in the DRAC, and then mounted the fuse panel again. Look at all those wires! I’ll take my time with that rats nest. I started to rebuild the heater. I had opened it up 20 years ago to put in a 12 volt motor, and again about 5 years ago to have the core repaired. This time was a full teardown for repaint. I’m still looking for some Hammered Bronze. I did get a can of Hammered Dark Bronze from the first store I checked, they had one can. I’ve been to two more stores that had shelf tags, but no cans.
I installed the transfer case shifter and cut the floor cover, now where did I put the wireing for that?
The cowl vent hinge is repaired and now I need the bolts to put that together. The windshield wiper mechanism is missing an E-clip, the one I got is too big. I did get the correct screws for the defroster ducts, installed the driver side. I’ll put in the wiper mechanism before installing the passenger side defroster duct.

[Second Series]

I got the heater installed. I put a gallon of coolant in the radiator and had to get some distilled water. Put a gallon of water in still needed more fluid. Got another gallon of coolant, still not full. Checked the dipstick, oil level didn’t go up. Finally another half gallon of water topped it off.
I got the cowl vent back in, the electric wiper motor and wiper transmission arms in place. A bunch of the wires connected through the firewall, and the original key switch and foot button starter switch wired to relays. And I found the 4x4 wiring harness, so that will get connected today.
I went to the Monroe swap meet but didn’t look too hard. My 8yo son wanted to find toys but there was no toy barn this time. I did find this Panel truck piggy bank. It’s such a nice looking paint scheme, but my plan is to paint it like I will the real thing just to get an idea of how it will look.

[Second Series]

Several trips to several stores over several weeks just to bolt up the last bits before fireing it up. I mounted the coolant reservoir. Mounted the relays for the original key and foot starter. Got a hydraulic crimper for the 8Ga ground wire off the battery. The old battery wouldn’t take a charge. I had a smaller battery that did charge up. The engine turned with the foot button, but would not fire. Tried dumping gas in but no go. I got a new battery but still wouldn’t start. I started looking at the fuel delivery. I put a test light on the fuel pump wire. Turn the key on, light comes on and then goes off after a moment. That part was working, but was the pump running? I disconnected the ground from the fuel tank and placed a current meter in series between the ground and frame. My meter goes up to 2 Amps. I turned the key on and the meter went to OL for a moment. Looks like the fuel pump is drawing current. Lastly I unscrewed the fuel line from the throttle body, it was wet. Awhile ago I was troubleshooting a garden tiller. I needed a way to check for spark. I looked for spark checkers on-line and found two kinds available. I was not impressed with the reviews on either, so I made my own. I took a switch that contains a neon bulb, and wired that to a spark plug. Not for the spark plug itself, but for the terminal of the spark plug. I connected one spark plug wire to my tester and placed the light in the hole for the cowl vent drain so I could see it while cranking. No spark. Look under the distributor cap to find a rusted mess. I ohmed out the ignition coil(looked good), and the pick-up coil(bad).Yesterday with new distributor, installed, cranked, STARTED right up! What a thrill! I started cleaning up and putting away tools. Time to bolt the seat in. I set up a special tool to get the nuts under the seat riser.

[6DoF]

hell yeah!

that dizzy looks doooonnee, haha

[Second Series]

I mounted the rear bumper, and the spare tire. That saved me from having to move them. I drove the truck for the first time in 2 ½ years. Doors bungee secured, plastic removed from the windows, and backing carefully without rear view mirrors. I walked the car tent to the new location. At first I was going to dismantle it and then re-assemble, but decided it would be easier to scoot one leg at a time. In the new location I wanted more room, so I made a vestibule on the side and added a zipper door there. I had enough parts from my older car tent, but none of the connectors. I welded the corners. For the last year and a half the project has been in the road in front of my place. My goal was to get the truck running so I could move it onto my property before my summer vacation. After the move, I topped off the fluids in the truck again. Next trip to the hardware store will be for an exhaust vent pipe so I can run the truck in the tent. I need to get the engine up to temp and figure the high idle. I’m looking at building an ALDL interface since none of the gauges are connected and no trouble light to get codes from at this point. Last night I started a new list of things to do. I really need to focus on fixing the roof on my house, but I just can’t leave this project alone. In other news, my family vacation spot got washed out in a flood last week in Montana. My vacation plans are shot, there’s no access with the road gone. It may be a year before I finish the truck and it may be longer before the road is remade. I do know that I will be driving this truck the next time I go there on vacation. There is currently plans to helicopter folks in to mitigate the new river flow away from their places. I may or may not take part in that.

[Second Series]

I have been putting in time here and there. I connected a computer to the ALDL and found the alternator was not charging. I had removed a dual battery module and looked at my ’90 k1500 as an example of how to connect the alternator. It had one wire from the 4 pin connector, so that’s how I ran it. This truck from ’88 needs two wires connected, it also needs the charge lamp in the gauge cluster, or a resistor to keyed voltage. I connected the gauge cluster under the dash for now. At this point the battery was shot, so I traded it in for another. It also looks like there may be a vacuum leak. There is a vacuum line from the base of the throttle body that goes to the charcoal cannister, I connected that and ran some hose to the hard line that goes to the gas tank. The ’90 truck has just the one hose from the cannister to the tank and no vacuum lines. Thanks to Chevy Tech for helping interpret the WinALDL.
I got a copy of the wiring that gives a little more detail Thanks to Hatzie. The gauge cluster has a lamp in parallel to a resistor for the Volts indicator. I looked on my old gauge cluster and found the resistor to be 470Ω 5Watt. The bulb is a #168, that specs to 14v .35A. Through ohms law I figure it’s about 40Ω. The resistor in parallel with the bulb would be about 36Ω. I might make a strip or panel for the dummy lights, or I could just use ~ 36Ω resistor for the L terminal of the alternator.
I located some short clevis yokes for the pedal linkages. The larger one for the brake went on without issue. The smaller one has several issues. It’s not as short as I thought it would be. It would not go on, I had to run a tap through the threads. After getting it on the clutch shaft, I found the gap was too narrow. I ground it to fit, and then the pin wouldn’t fit. Drilled that out, attached the pedal arm and gave it a try. It was still binding and I bent the shaft. That was the shaft that I had threaded before finding the cylinder leaky, so I still had the new shaft from the new cylinder. I cut it to length and cut some threads on it, got everything in place. Then I was ready to put the pedals on. I like the brake and clutch pedal height, still need to lower the gas pedal.
I did some measuring of the cab to see if something was off. The drivers door wasn’t shutting right, there was a nasty dent on the roof. After much effort measuring I decided to brute force the door. I used a 2x4 between the door and the opening and persuaded it to behave.

[joedoh]

nice figuring! that required charge lamp is always a fit-giver.

[Second Series]

I tried to remove the lower windlace retainer, but the screws would not budge. I fired up the O-A and heated each screw red hot and spritzed them with water. They came out like butter. This is the ’47 with two piece windlace retainer, unique to only a couple years. There is a 3rd small retainer on the back bottom of each door held on by Two screws. A little heat to get one of those off. The front retainer on the passenger side was damaged at the bottom while in the shop, so I’ll come up with a fix for that. I have not found a source for this part so I’ll work with what I have. The windlace retainer has one piece on the front of the door opening, and another on the rear. At the top where they meet is an embossed rectangle piece that covers the seam of both retainers as well as the first headliner retainer. This is the domino effect as I had to remove the headliner retainer last. None of this can go back on until the headliner is in place. The headliner is cardboard, so it will go on after the windows are in. I masked off the interior and sprayed Grey where it needed to go. The door jambs were originally the Bronze color. I was able to remove the passenger side striker plate, The screws wouldn’t budge on the driver side. I taped everything off and debated for several days either painting over the striker and hinges, or complete teardown. I decided since everything was working it would be o.k. to paint over as is.
I had some time and looking some more, one thing led to another. I started turning hinge bolts. After awhile the passenger door was on the ground and the hinges were on the running board. Full steam ahead, I proceeded to the driver side. One striker plate screw turned, the other three did not. I striped the phillips slot on two, sheared off the other. I tested the hinge bolts with the socket/breaker bar. They were not free. One acted like it was turning, but sheared off. I used heat and got the rest out.
It took awhile for me to accept the fact that my drill bits are dull. I also broke two bolt extractors in the process.
Another day at it with new drill bits and new extractors. I drilled through the striker plate bolts, both sheared off while using the extractor. I was able to remove the nut plates, but need to extract the studs or replace them. Where can I get striker nut plates?
I drilled through the broken hinge bolt, but the extractor wasn’t turning it. I can see the rusted stud through the side cowl vent hole so I sprayed penetrating oil on it. My plan is to spray it every day for a week or more and then try again.

[Second Series]

I started this build thread on 5/30/19. I drove the 1947 panel truck, and the 1988 K2500 to a shop around 9/6/19. It was in the shop for a year. In that time they removed both bodies from the frames. A jig was made to locate the body mounts. The ends of the donor frame were modified and outriggers were attached. The rear axle was moved back a few inches. The ’47 body was set on the donor frame for mock-up. A custom core support was fabbed and the front sheet metal fitted. The Steering Column, Brake and Clutch pedals mounted. Fuel filler relocated to driver side, Parking brake lever bracket fabbed and mounted to the right of the floor shifter. The body and engine were removed from the donor frame and the body mounts were welded on. Frame painted. I reworked the original bed wood. Body and engine back on the frame, and sheet metal set in place. I hauled the project home on 11/4/20.

The second year was slow but steady. I had a custom radiator built and I installed it. I moved the axle bumps, and rear shocks back and fabbed an upper shock bracket for the passenger side, the start of my welding experience with O-A. I fabbed a spare tire mount, and the exhaust, the start of my welding experience with Gmaw. I lowered the gas tank to modify one of the body mounts that was making contact with a fuel line. I fabbed a bracket and mounted the parking brake lines. Installed the front Brake line, and Hydraulic Clutch line. Modified the connecting rods for the Brake and Clutch masters. Fabbed a stiffener plate for the firewall mounted masters. Painted the inside of the dash and the firewall. Painted the interior cargo area and installed the bed wood. Installed a driver seat, Rebuilt the steering shaft with longer dd stock. Modified the power steering lines. Fabbed brackets and installed cooler radiators for the steering and oil. Repaired a broken fitting on the engine for the coolant. Had some hoses made for the oil cooler.

The Third year of the build, 12/9/21 I started to cut wires on the harness. I found the cowl vent conflicted with the brake pedal bracket, so moved the brake pedal bracket over and installed the cowl vent. Fabbed a bracket and installed the gas pedal. Installed the foot starter button and linkage. Fabbed a bracket and mounted a button for the starter linkage. Cut and spliced the engine wiring harness to the cab wiring harness. Wired in a DRAC. Installed a firewall pad. Fabbed a bracket for the T-case shifter, installed it. Cut a battery box into the inner fender. Painted the dash. Fabbed a bracket and mounted the fuse panel. Wired in some relays for the starter circuit. Painted and installed the inner fenders. Restored the heater and installed. Replaced the Distributor, Then the engine fired right up! I mounted the spare tire and rear bumper and drove the truck onto my property on 6/24/22. It had been in the street until then. I burned out the battery running without a voltage gauge or load resistor, so replaced the Battery and installed the donor gauge cluster for the time being. Modified the Brake and Clutch linkages to lower the pedals. Adjusted the door gap with a 2x4 and brute force. Removed the door hinges and striker plates. Painted the hinges. Found the hood threads had been rethreaded for coarse screws, modified some coarse screws with shoulders. Tried to paint the underside of the hood in sub 50s weather.

Getting into the Fourth year of the build, I’ll have to wait for warmer weather for some painting. I’ll work on what I can during the winter.

[olcarguy]

Good for you, at least You have not given up on it. I haven't worked on mine for at least 8 yrs.....

[lower50's]

Nice build, lots of innovation. It should defiantly go faster than 60 with no shakes. 2023 is date you hope it is on the road again?

[Second Series]

Originally Posted by olcarguy

Good for you, at least You have not given up on it. I haven't worked on mine for at least 8 yrs.....

This could be a good year to get to it! When I attempt to complete a task I get frantic and cut corners. If I approach each task with no expectation I enjoy the time and it eventually gets done. This week I put one screw in each hood hinge…

Originally Posted by lower50's

Nice build, lots of innovation. It should defiantly go faster than 60 with no shakes. 2023 is date you hope it is on the road again?

Thanks! It needs glass, latches, and lights to go on the road. The doors are a project in themselves, but yes, I would like to be driving in the spring.

Oh, it looks like I forgot to post last month’s progress:

Two weeks of penetrating oil and the busted stud would not budge. I drilled it out some more and used a centerpunch to collapse it in. In the process I hammered the punch between the stud and the hole, the nut is D-shaped and split on the thin side. I cleared the hole and tried another bolt in it. I was able to tighten it some, so I may use it as is, or could add a helicoil.
I removed the hood to go over the hinge bolts. The restoration shop decided it would be a good idea to tap the threads and assemble with their standard shop bolts. I was actually there while the owner’s son was doing this. The owner commented that the guy that dismantled it neglected to tap the threads and they were having a hard time getting the bolts in. I mentioned that I had the special bolts for it, but they wanted to use their bolt then, and use new bolts after paint. I should have known better. I still haven’t found the original bolts.
Now that I have the hood off, I see they tapped it out to 5/16-18. The shoulder bolts are 5/16-24. These tapped holes are in a bracket that is rivetted to the hood. I could buy 6 helicoils and use the shoulder bolts. This hood hinge has Three 3/8” holes for the shoulder. The shoulder bolt kit I purchased has one 3/8” for each side and two larger for each side. I would need to get 4 more 3/8” shoulder bolts. I picked up some 3/8” spacers that I can cut to length to use on 5/16-18 bolts and make my own shoulder bolts.
I tapped the spacers to 5/16-18, and cut to length.
Now I’m attempting to paint the under side of the hood when it’s not freezing outside. I was in a hurry and painting a concave surface. The drips really showed up after I applied black. I decided to use some sandpaper, 100 grit was a lot of work so I had some 60 grit. It shows the drips are from the primer. I sprayed more black and the 60 grit scratches show. I used the 100 grit to knock those down, and more black. This is all new to me, I’ve watch a couple videos and know I can get it looking fairly decent.

[Rusti]

amazing work on that girl.

[Second Series]

Originally Posted by Rusti

amazing work on that girl.

Thanks!

It’s too cold for paint. I did get some cold galvanizing compound sprayed on the hinges on a warm day.
I removed the window garnish from the doors, and chiseled out the rubber wiper from the channel.
When I got this truck over 20 years ago, the original mirrors were gone. This is a 3800 so 1-ton with the bracket for an arm with a round mirror. I got some mirrors from an 80’s truck and screwed them to the doors. Now I’ll use the typical truck mirror set up, so the holes in my doors need to go. I practiced filling holes on a piece of scrap with Oxy-Acetylene. It went better than when I was welding on the inner fenders. I used a magnet to hold a piece of copper under each hole and knocked out that task. I’ll follow up with some body filler for the imperfections, but I’m happy with the results.
The brackets for the 1-ton mirror left holes in the cowl. Those are next on my list. There is a reinforcement bracket under the sheet metal where the mirrors mount. I don’t think I’ll be able to get the piece of copper behind the old holes. I’ll practice filling hole without the copper backer.

[dsraven]

maybe a couple of posts too far back, but a hint on oxy acet welding that i have found works for me.
-a small joint space if unable to get them tight together
-clean the metal on both sides so there is not rust. I find anything rusty or covered with paint or galvanizing just makes the weld pop and sputter and also the weld is possibly gonna have porosity
-try to get the correct sized torch tip for the job. too big of a torch will not mix the gas well in the mixing chamber before it gets to the tip, at least thats mt thoughts on it, and then it has to be cranked up to light0turned way down to get a correct size flame cone to weld the thin metal. some guys use a small torch like a plumbers set-the kind made for small bottles but then attached to a larger bottle instead- or a jewelers torch, because they have a small torch handle and less flow so the velocity through the handle mixes the gases better, my opinion, but anyway they are made for a smaller flame cone
-when adjusting the flame don't get too much oxygen in there, just bring the long lighter colored cone down so it stops at the smaller light blue cone and then stop. that way you don't get so much oxidized slag in the weld and area but also it isn't a carburizing flame either-that has too much carbon in it that gets added to the weld.
-start heating the weld and pay attention to the puddle, torch angle, etc. start to add-bad in some filler rod when you think it needs it. sometimes I keep my filler rod near the puddle so it is really hot and ready but not melting and leaving too much metal in the puddle when i bring it in.
-it's kinda like tig welding,, watch the puddle, dab in some filler, move along steadily. use the right size filler rod as well. too big I find leaves blobs of metal, too small and you use a lot more rod.

I like the work you have done so far, and how you think outside the box. also how you aren't afreaid to try making your own stuff. nice inventions so far.