Make it handle

[robnolimit]

Originally Posted by hotrod1

ROB No-Limit or anyone else. Have a question.

Was thinking about moving my engine back another 6 inches (already made space for 3 inches). Is this worth the trouble? I am at a point where I need to determine engine placement and would not have to cut it loose or change drive shaft, etc. I would have to further recess the firewall and will displace the Vintage Air unit under the dash. I am hesitant because I still want air and don't know of another solution. I guess I'm trying to have my cake and eat it too.

The true racer would say move it back 10", to the right 2", down 3"........ but these are still street trucks, and we need to drive them as suck. So, i think 3" is a big help. More makes it tough to be comfortable to drive.

[robnolimit]

Originally Posted by Coldshot

When selecting coilovers for a custom set up, should the strut/shock be the same front to back and just spring rate change or should the back get more stoke or vis versa?
Thought that might be a good question. Hope it hasn't been covered

This can get pretty complicated, but I'll try to keep it simple.
The front shock is on the A-arm, and is leveraged. For my example I'll use 50%, or 2 to 1. (really it's probably 65%) So, when the tire moves 2", the shock only moves 1". It's also moving at a slower speed. On the rear axle, Coil overs are usually mounted very close to a 1 - 1 motion ratio. So 2" of tire movement = 2" of shock movement. At first you may think that the front shock should have 2x the dampening rate of the rear shock, but it's more than that. the forces climb exponentially. Also, there is more weight(force) on the front. Thinking about the motion vs the forces will get you to start thinking that the front dampening rates should be 2 to 3 times the rear rates, and that's close.
*** But this really only counts for compression. Because our trucks are nose heavy, the rear tends to bounce a lot. This is mostly due to the ratios of 'sprung weight' vs. 'unsprung weight'. So we find that the rear shock need more rebound rate than the front. Usually 1.5 to 2 times more.
It's really hard to get shocks like this, unless you custom build them. For a good selection of steel body shocks look at some Oval Track suppliers. All of our suspensions include RideTech or Viking coil-overs, and we have worked with them to build custom build our own valves and valve codes.
- I hope that answered your question without being to complicated.

[C20ELEPHANT]

robnolimit, I have a 2006 2500HD Duramax long bed extended cab and cannot stand the Ranchos 9000's on the front and run 1-1/2" sway bars front and rear along with about 1200lbs in the bed, any suggestions for Viking shocks for the front of this heavy truck with torsion bars?

[aggie91]

Originally Posted by Greywolf200

Have been seeing rear axle setups that used a link from the front leaf spring hanger and a track bar. Kind of a short truck arm setup with short parallel arms. Does anyone know how well this system works. Sounds really simple, but often simple is not a good thing.

I think you are refering to 2-Link set up. Here is a link to a kit by Extensive:

https://www.ekstensive.com/store/pro...31062rmi0gnkp4

It is a simple kit to get low, but not the best for handling. With the relatively short pan hard bar to locate the rear end, there is a lot of side to side movement as the suspension goes up and down. This the urethane bushing in the front mount and the solid mount on the rear end, the articulation is very limited and could cause binding during cornering when the body wants to roll side to side. Like you said, its very simple, but not the best for handling.

[Coldshot]

Great info like alway. But I think I worded my question wrong. I'm putting an independent rear in mine and doing custom mounting points so I'm trying to figure out what ridetech coilover shocks to get. I have about 3.5" or so of travel in the suspension so I'm thinking the 4.1" stroke shock. That is 14" long. Now I'm also putting in the matching front suspension to the rear up front. So my question is do I match the length/stroke shock? So 14" long units front and back? Hope this makes sense. I'm trying to get an idea of where to put the mounts.
Thanks again

[Greywolf200]

Originally Posted by aggie91

I think you are refering to 2-Link set up. Here is a link to a kit by Extensive:

https://www.ekstensive.com/store/pro...31062rmi0gnkp4

It is a simple kit to get low, but not the best for handling. With the relatively short pan hard bar to locate the rear end, there is a lot of side to side movement as the suspension goes up and down. This the urethane bushing in the front mount and the solid mount on the rear end, the articulation is very limited and could cause binding during cornering when the body wants to roll side to side. Like you said, its very simple, but not the best for handling.

Thanks aggie91, that is similar to what I was referring to. Off road vehicles use triangulated four link set ups with rod ends to get extreme articulation and I agree with you on the pan-hard bar on the rig being way too short. It looks like a short truck arm system though and I was wondering if it wouldn't handle better the leaf springs.

[robnolimit]

Originally Posted by C20ELEPHANT

robnolimit, I have a 2006 2500HD Duramax long bed extended cab and cannot stand the Ranchos 9000's on the front and run 1-1/2" sway bars front and rear along with about 1200lbs in the bed, any suggestions for Viking shocks for the front of this heavy truck with torsion bars?

Hmm, I would look at the Bilstien HD shocks, call RCD in So Cal. for fitment info. Or, the Fox RV-Towing HD shocks, Call California Super Trucks in San Bernardino Ca.

[robnolimit]

Originally Posted by Coldshot

Great info like alway. But I think I worded my question wrong. I'm putting an independent rear in mine and doing custom mounting points so I'm trying to figure out what ridetech coilover shocks to get. I have about 3.5" or so of travel in the suspension so I'm thinking the 4.1" stroke shock. That is 14" long. Now I'm also putting in the matching front suspension to the rear up front. So my question is do I match the length/stroke shock? So 14" long units front and back? Hope this makes sense. I'm trying to get an idea of where to put the mounts.
Thanks again

OK, got it. One thing I use as a rule, is "never let the shock be the travel limiter". Now, you can add to this, "never let the ball joints be the travel limiter", and so on. So, use bump stops! Then choose a shock that has a little more travel than the suspension stops allow, so that you can follow the rules.

[robnolimit]

Originally Posted by Greywolf200

Thanks aggie91, that is similar to what I was referring to. Off road vehicles use triangulated four link set ups with rod ends to get extreme articulation and I agree with you on the pan-hard bar on the rig being way too short. It looks like a short truck arm system though and I was wondering if it wouldn't handle better the leaf springs.

Hate to say it, but probably not. Leafs with a sway bar and good shocks would win out. This type of 2-link would have a lot of binding during suspension articulation, making the shock tuning impossible.

[Coldshot]

Originally Posted by robnolimit

OK, got it. One thing I use as a rule, is "never let the shock be the travel limiter". Now, you can add to this, "never let the ball joints be the travel limiter", and so on. So, use bump stops! Then choose a shock that has a little more travel than the suspension stops allow, so that you can follow the rules.

First off thanks!
So if my suspension travel is 3.5" to where it's starting to stress the balljoints (It could go farther but starts to resist) then I should get the 3.6" stroke shock and set my bump stops at about the 3" travel point? That sound within the rules? (In theory)

[chevyc10lover]

greatest tread, just what i need!!

[Greywolf200]

Originally Posted by robnolimit

Hate to say it, but probably not. Leafs with a sway bar and good shocks would win out. This type of 2-link would have a lot of binding during suspension articulation, making the shock tuning impossible.

Thanks for the input. If it sounds to good to be true, it probably is.

[Sixshooter44]

This is the best thread going, wealth of knowledge. Sadly I sold my 68 and replaced it with a 2012 chevy rcsb, to start the front im going with spindles and a viking coil over for about a 4 inch drop and better handling, I am considering a full back half this summer to increase ride quality and handling. What type of suspensions should I be researching for a part time dd that will also do some mile speed work? Tri 4 link? Parralell 4 link? I think a torque arm would be easiest using front spring mounts like they do with novas and cameros. Any ideas are welcome. Thanks

[Monte's62]

Well it took about 3 weeks but I finally read all of the posts on this thread. I think I will read it again just to make sure I can wrap my brain around this stuff. Thanks to Rob especially and all of you guys that make threads like this worth the time.

[robnolimit]

Thanks guys. I wasn't sure about this thread when it started, but I'm happy that it has helped so many. It is now so big that I wish i had cut it up into sections, but then again, all of this stuff works together. We are working on some new stuff so we should have a bunch more info to put up soon. We are setting up the new Holley Data Acquisition systems on two trucks (the Hellboy and the JT) and we will be able to gather all sorts of suspension, shock, and spring data. We plan to use this towards the development of new VR springs and matched shocks, using Off-the-Shelf equipment. Should be fun. Keeping pushing forward.

[jlsanborn]

Rob,
I'd like to get some shocks ordered and could use a little help. On the front of my '67 C10 I've got 2-1/2" drop spindles and 2" drop springs. There's a good chance I'll change the springs to a 1" drop. Think the stock mounting locations are cool with that setup? Stock dimensions on the shock?

I've got your relocate setup on the rear with a 5" drop spring and about an inch of block. Can you recommend shock dimensions for that or how would I go about measuring for one?

I'll run the Gas Magnums.

[robnolimit]

With a 2" spring drop in front and OE mounts, an OE spec shock should be OK. In the rear, with a 5" spring drop you may need a sorter shock. Check the 'full open' length, set the truck on the ground, on the tires and use a floor jack to lift the frame up until the springs have no tension (best to unbolt one end). Measure eye to eye, and then subtract 1" - we never want the spring to go slack. That will be the full open length at the max.

[Coldshot]

Just watched this video and thought it fit here

http://youtu.be/yeju3pbopMg

I don't know how you post videos but there's the link and mabey someone can post it properly

[69gmcc10]

Originally Posted by Coldshot

Just watched this video and thought it fit here

http://youtu.be/yeju3pbopMg

I don't know how you post videos but there's the link and mabey someone can post it properly

I saw that video the other day as well. I instantly fell in love with the look and theme of the truck. There is a generic build thread on the this forum you can find by simply searching c-10r and allot of pictures on google images to drool over.

[67_ShortFleet]

I have a 1967 short bed. front suspension is CPP 3" dropped springs, CPP modular spindles, KYB shocks. Stock upper and lower control arms I have a 1 1/4 inch sway bar to install. Rear Early Classic 6" drop springs plus 1 1/2" lowering blocks and pan hard bar, KYB shocks. How do you think it will handle and what could I add to make it handle better. This is a project and I have not driven it yet. I'm a divorced guy paying child support, so I don't have a lot to spend.
Thanks Matt

[robnolimit]

Should do OK. Caster may be the hold-up. Check out the "my caster mod with picts" thread, low $$ and good results

[67_ShortFleet]

Thanks Rob!

[Shon]

As most know this, but Rob is a super nice guy! Spend all day with him at a local truck club even and got to ride in Hellboy on the autocross set up, WOW!! That was tons of fun and my son says we got some work to do!!

Thanks for your time and hope you will come back to other events we may have.

[robnolimit]

Originally Posted by Shon

As most know this, but Rob is a super nice guy! Spend all day with him at a local truck club even and got to ride in Hellboy on the autocross set up, WOW!! That was tons of fun and my son says we got some work to do!!

Thanks for your time and hope you will come back to other events we may have.

I had a great time out there. Turns out I cooked a spark plug. No biggie. Thanks for inviting me out and making me feel welcome. As most of you know, we moved from So-Cal to East Tennessee last year, and we are just starting to make new friends. The guys and gals from the Upstate S.C. Chevy Truck Club are the real deal. Great bunch of people who love their Chevy Trucks. Thanks again.

[suville]

Originally Posted by robnolimit

Should do OK. Caster may be the hold-up. Check out the "my caster mod with picts" thread, low $$ and good results

Been searchin for this.... a link would sure help if ya could Thanks