57 GMC, frame swap, 4wd, 454 big block, 4 speed

[Old57]

Originally Posted by OutlawDrifter

Nice clean install.

Thanks, I think it is simple and will work good

[Old57]

I made my exhaust system today. I used dual 2 1/2" tubing into a merge collector to single 3" tubing, through a large straight through chambered Magnaflow muffler, then turned out underneath where the bed step will be. I'll put a nice tip on it after I get the bed mounted. I also put shims in to adjust the pinion angle, and mounted the electric fuel pump in front of the tank and even with the bottom, but I didn't take pics of that. So I did get my goal met this weekend of getting the tank mounted and the exhaust made, and a couple other small things. Maybe one of these years, I'll actually get to drive it! I think my next item to do will be making my fuel lines and brake lines, and get the brakes bled and working.

[Old57]

A couple more...

[joedoh]

nice exhaust, I hope it sounds good

[Old57]

Originally Posted by joedoh

nice exhaust, I hope it sounds good

Thanks, I hope so. Hopefully it's not too loud. It should be ok since the muffler is a large 3 chamber with mesh packing, and over 40 inches long. I'm hoping it's a fairly mellow tone. One of these days I'll find out.

[Purcell69]

Nice work! that should flow nice and sound great.

-Joe

[Purcell69]

Originally Posted by Old57

I did play hooky from work yesterday afternoon and got the 32 gallon square body Suburban tank mounted. I'm hoping to get 300 miles per tank out of the big block...

It can be done depending on how aggressive the cam is and what your overall gearing works out to relating to engine RPM at highway speed. At 9.375 MPG, you would be bone dry at the 300 mile mark.

I've had two 454 powered trucks that would consistently get me 12 mpg. One was a bone stock 1994 C3500 with TBI. The other was a 1978 C10 using a 454 I'd built, hooked to a TH-400 automatic and a 3.07 geared rear axle on 31" tall tires. The carb was a Holley 3310 750 CFM vacuum secondary carburetor with the heaviest secondary spring Holley offered to keep the motor as lean as safely possible. The motor was built for torque and towing so it didn't need to spin fast.

4wd may cost you a bit, but the lighter truck body may be enough to offset that, hopefully. It's going to be close.

-Joe

[Old57]

Originally Posted by Purcell69

It can be done depending on how aggressive the cam is and what your overall gearing works out to relating to engine RPM at highway speed. At 9.375 MPG, you would be bone dry at the 300 mile mark.

I've had two 454 powered trucks that would consistently get me 12 mpg. One was a bone stock 1994 C3500 with TBI. The other was a 1978 C10 using a 454 I'd built, hooked to a TH-400 automatic and a 3.07 geared rear axle on 31" tall tires. The carb was a Holley 3310 750 CFM vacuum secondary carburetor with the heaviest secondary spring Holley offered to keep the motor as lean as safely possible. The motor was built for torque and towing so it didn't need to spin fast.

4wd may cost you a bit, but the lighter truck body may be enough to offset that, hopefully. It's going to be close.

-Joe

I built the motor for low end torque too. I used an "RV" cam from summit, and a 750 cfm vacuum secondary carb. I doubt this motor will ever see over 5000 rpm. I have an SM465 manual trans, 4.10 gear axles and the tires are a tiny bit over 33". The 205 transfer case is part time, and the front hubs lock in or out, so I won't be spinning the front axle in 2wd. I should be able to drive it comfortably on the highway. I may eventually swap to the NV4500 trans to get an overdrive 5th gear, but that would be after the truck is running and driving if I ever do that.

[Purcell69]

Originally Posted by Old57

I built the motor for low end torque too. I used an "RV" cam from summit, and a 750 cfm vacuum secondary carb. I doubt this motor will ever see over 5000 rpm. I have an SM465 manual trans, 4.10 gear axles and the tires are a tiny bit over 33". The 205 transfer case is part time, and the front hubs lock in or out, so I won't be spinning the front axle in 2wd. I should be able to drive it comfortably on the highway. I may eventually swap to the NV4500 trans to get an overdrive 5th gear, but that would be after the truck is running and driving if I ever do that.

Overdrive will be your best friend. With the stock rear end in the C-10, (3.73 gears), the engine was turning at 2,700 rpm at 65 mph. Switching out to the 3.07 rear axle slowed the engine down to 2,100 rpm for the same speed, and with the torque, the rear gearing didn't hinder the ability to pull trailers or drive in the mountains.

As I recall, the cam was a Comp Cams 268 duration. The heads were 049 castings and the intake was a Performer RPM 2.0.

With 4.10 gears and the 1:1 4th gear, you're engine is going to be spinning pretty good at highway speed, even with 33" tires, about 2,700 rpm. When you go to the NV4500, you'll be running at 1,950ish rpm at the same 65 mph. Obviously, the closer you can get your torque peak to cruising speed, the better off you will be for economy.

-Joe

[rgunlock]

I'm going sort of the opposite direction as Purcell. I've got 3.08 gears, SM465, NP205 and 33" tires on my truck. It does well enough at speed, but turns are a bit of a problem as you're going a little fast to get down into 2nd, but you are lugging in 3rd.

I am in the process now of swapping the 3.08s out for 4.10s. Initially I'll still have the SM465, so I'll be able to let you know how that goes if you're interested. I've also got an NV4500 I will be swapping in but probably a weekend or two later.

[Old57]

Yes, I'd like to hear what you think of it with the 4.10 gears. I'll eventually do the NV4500 trans, but not for quite a while.

[Purcell69]

Originally Posted by Old57

Yes, I'd like to hear what you think of it with the 4.10 gears. I'll eventually do the NV4500 trans, but not for quite a while.

Same here. I'm curious to see how the 4.10/NV4500 combo plays out.

-Joe

[Old57]

I got a couple more parts in. The hub dials are custom made by GMCGrim here on the forum. They are machined out of aluminum and anodized blue, and will replace the stock plastic dials in the big hub Dana axle. I also got my gas pedal and cable. Hopefully I'll have some time soon to get the hub dials and pedal/cable installed. I'm also planning to make my brake lines and fuel lines when I can work on it again. I need to get all of my window and door seals ordered. I'm trying to find the door seals from Soft Seal, but they're out of stock. I'll keep looking for those.

[Purcell69]

Originally Posted by Old57

I got a couple more parts in. The hub dials are custom made by GMCGrim here on the forum. They are machined out of aluminum and anodized blue, and will replace the stock plastic dials in the big hub Dana axle. I also got my gas pedal and cable. Hopefully I'll have some time soon to get the hub dials and pedal/cable installed. I'm also planning to make my brake lines and fuel lines when I can work on it again. I need to get all of my window and door seals ordered. I'm trying to find the door seals from Soft Seal, but they're out of stock. I'll keep looking for those.

Those hub dials are beautiful! That's the one thing I don't necessarily like about my build, no locking hubs with the 1994 Dodge Ram front axle unless I do a conversion kit.

I can't wait to see your build when it is completed.

-Joe

[Old57]

The plastic hub dials are the one bad thing about these stock hubs, so I'm glad to get these custom made aluminum dials. I wish I had the time to jump in and finish the truck, but I don't have much free time. One of these days I'll hopefully have it on the road.

[Old57]

I got a really nice front bumper for the truck. It'll be getting powder coated the cream color like the wheels and grill. My boy helped get the cab masked off and sanded to get it ready to paint the interior. Hopefully I can get that done tomorrow. Once that is done, I can finish wiring all of my dash switches and gauges.

[joedoh]

Originally Posted by Old57

I got a really nice front bumper for the truck. It'll be getting powder coated the cream color like the wheels and grill. My boy helped get the cab masked off and sanded to get it ready to paint the interior. Hopefully I can get that done tomorrow. Once that is done, I can finish wiring all of my dash switches and gauges.

wow looks really great! nice to have a helper too!

[Old57]

Yes joedoh, I was glad to have the help.

This morning had another step forward. We wiped down the interior one last time and sprayed it in antique white, then pulled off all of the masking. I'm looking forward to seeing the dash all together with the switches and gauges, and the other parts installed.

[jjzepplin]

This will be (is) amazing!

[rgunlock]

Originally Posted by Old57

Yes, I'd like to hear what you think of it with the 4.10 gears. I'll eventually do the NV4500 trans, but not for quite a while.

Originally Posted by Purcell69

Same here. I'm curious to see how the 4.10/NV4500 combo plays out.

-Joe

Interior is looking great in color!

I've been driving with the 4.10s, SM465/NP205 and 33" tires for a week or so now. It does great for my normal day to day driving which rarely gets above 50mph. 1st/granny low is useless for me - can't even shift into 1st anyway. 2nd is good for starting off and about the first 50 feet. Also good for crawling through parking garages. 3rd gets you up to speed quick and is perfect for turns. I've got a fairly torquey motor also, and 4th is good for a pretty large range, from sharp curves at ~1500rpm to up to 55-60mph which my tach says is 2500-3000 rpm. I would not be comfortable getting out on the highway where anything less than 70mph is obstructing traffic around here. I've got fairly loud mufflers and an imperfectly balanced drivetrain and driving a sustained 3000+ rpm isn't comfortable due to noise and light vibration. My truck seems to feel most comfortable cruising at around 2000-2500 rpm. I will be attempting to do my NV4500 swap this weekend and I'm looking forward to seeing how that works out. Hope this helps.

[Purcell69]

Originally Posted by rgunlock

Interior is looking great in color!

I've been driving with the 4.10s, SM465/NP205 and 33" tires for a week or so now. It does great for my normal day to day driving which rarely gets above 50mph. 1st/granny low is useless for me - can't even shift into 1st anyway. 2nd is good for starting off and about the first 50 feet. Also good for crawling through parking garages. 3rd gets you up to speed quick and is perfect for turns. I've got a fairly torquey motor also, and 4th is good for a pretty large range, from sharp curves at ~1500rpm to up to 55-60mph which my tach says is 2500-3000 rpm. I would not be comfortable getting out on the highway where anything less than 70mph is obstructing traffic around here. I've got fairly loud mufflers and an imperfectly balanced drivetrain and driving a sustained 3000+ rpm isn't comfortable due to noise and light vibration. My truck seems to feel most comfortable cruising at around 2000-2500 rpm. I will be attempting to do my NV4500 swap this weekend and I'm looking forward to seeing how that works out. Hope this helps.

That is pretty much how I remember my old W-200. The Power Wagon came with a NP435 four speed and a NP203 transfer case with 4.10 gears in the axles. The stock tires were Firestone Wide Oval 9.00x16.5 bias plys. These were okay back when the speed limit was 55 mph nation wide, but once the states began raising things, a set of 33x12.50s helped a bit more. The truck got 10 mpg no matter what, but at 70+, the 360 V8 was humming a pretty good song, even with the taller tires.

As to first gear, it was pretty much unusable unless you had a heavy load that you needed to get rolling or you just wanted to idle along in SoCal rush hour traffic. When I was teaching my kid sister how to drive, I took her out on a hill and let her dump the clutch in first gear, to demonstrate she couldn't stall the truck. With that fear gone, the rest came easy.

-Joe

[Nut Case]

olds57

Growing up in Southeastern ID, First gear ( granny or the big hole) and not syncro,,,,, Hauling hay on a single 2 ton flat bed truck we lined the tk straight down the field, grabbed some twin, teeing the steering wheel to the vent window separator . so it would go straight, put it in the big hole the clutch set the throttle what a blast working out gettin good memories
Looking good, fun for all. Needs a friend

[Old57]

Thanks for the info, I appreciate it!

Originally Posted by rgunlock

Interior is looking great in color!

I've been driving with the 4.10s, SM465/NP205 and 33" tires for a week or so now. It does great for my normal day to day driving which rarely gets above 50mph. 1st/granny low is useless for me - can't even shift into 1st anyway. 2nd is good for starting off and about the first 50 feet. Also good for crawling through parking garages. 3rd gets you up to speed quick and is perfect for turns. I've got a fairly torquey motor also, and 4th is good for a pretty large range, from sharp curves at ~1500rpm to up to 55-60mph which my tach says is 2500-3000 rpm. I would not be comfortable getting out on the highway where anything less than 70mph is obstructing traffic around here. I've got fairly loud mufflers and an imperfectly balanced drivetrain and driving a sustained 3000+ rpm isn't comfortable due to noise and light vibration. My truck seems to feel most comfortable cruising at around 2000-2500 rpm. I will be attempting to do my NV4500 swap this weekend and I'm looking forward to seeing how that works out. Hope this helps.

[Old57]

Just a couple things to update... I have most of the switches and dash wiring done, and I painted the gauge panel and installed the gauges in it. I should have the dash finished the next chance I have to work on the truck. I also bought a truck bed trailer to use the bed floor. It was a boat trailer with a 73-87 long bed mounted on it. I removed the bed and sold the trailer, so I ended up paying 50 bucks for he bed. I would have used the bed floor from the original 73 donor truck, but it was badly dented and rusted. I'll measure the floor size of my 57 long bed, and cut out this floor to size, then get it installed. It will also use the cross braces, since its going back on a 73-87 frame anyway. I think it will look like it came from the factory with the ribbed floor when its done.

[Old57]

Thats good memories. My Grandad told me stories like this too.

Originally Posted by Nut Case

olds57

Growing up in Southeastern ID, First gear ( granny or the big hole) and not syncro,,,,, Hauling hay on a single 2 ton flat bed truck we lined the tk straight down the field, grabbed some twin, teeing the steering wheel to the vent window separator . so it would go straight, put it in the big hole the clutch set the throttle what a blast working out gettin good memories
Looking good, fun for all. Needs a friend