O/T tell me I'm not too crazy. (long)

[jorgensensc]

Let me start by saying that I would post this on an MG forum, but I can't find a decent one where people actually post regularly, so I will ask my family here. O.K heres the scoop.

The wife and I boiught a little red MG Midget. It runs O.K. (usual oil leaks for an MG), and shifts O.K. (It has a a 4 speed, non syncro first gear ), The body is good, except for the rusted out floorboards and inner wheel arches, and one rocker panel.
Here's the wuestion, when I rip the car apart to have it painted I want to do the following: (and please tell me if I'm crazy)

1) rip all of the wiring out and get a wiring kit and redo the wiring completely (it is currently Positive to ground, that's right positive to ground )

2) I am aslo thinking of putting in a chevy 2.8 V-6 or a 4.3 V-6 with a T-5 tranny. If I can get it to fit. (already tried to talk the wife into an LT1 with a 6 speed and she said absolutely not, she might consider the V-6 she said) I can rebuild this engine and tranny, but for the same price I could get a decent low miles v-6 and tranny. The current engine is a 100CC engine making a whopping 59 horsepower (when new) My 900rr motorcycle made way more ponies than that!

3) Should I buy repair floorboards, or should I just get a large sheet of good gauge metal and cover the underside, after cutting out the rusted spots? The underbody is basically a giant sheet of metal, but is rusted pretty badly.

Feel free to give more suggestions and advice, or just call me crazy...
Sorry for the long post.
Shawn

[Ruckus]

I'm by no means an expert, but I do know that if one rocker and the the floor is rusted, that means the other rocker probably is too. And w/ these cars, the rockers are the keystone to the structural integrity of the car. I say do whatever you want to the floorboard, and concentrate on the rockers-and if you do them yourself, talk to someone who has replaced them before- I've heard they're somewhat tricky- esp. when they're sagging. The wiring harness is a very good idea if you want to mess with it. Don't think I've ever driven one where everything worked, and if it did, we had smoke and fire (twice!)= exciting. As far as the engine-don't think I've really ever seen a Midget with an engine swap- most of those occur in the "B's". Hey, good luck and look forward to seeing some progress!

[Lippyp]

Originally posted by jorgensensc

1) rip all of the wiring out and get a wiring kit and redo the wiring completely (it is currently Positive to ground, that's right positive to ground )

2) I am aslo thinking of putting in a chevy 2.8 V-6 or a 4.3 V-6 with a T-5 tranny. If I can get it to fit. (already tried to talk the wife into an LT1 with a 6 speed and she said absolutely not, she might consider the V-6 she said) I can rebuild this engine and tranny, but for the same price I could get a decent low miles v-6 and tranny. The current engine is a 100CC engine making a whopping 59 horsepower (when new) My 900rr motorcycle made way more ponies than that!

3) Should I buy repair floorboards, or should I just get a large sheet of good gauge metal and cover the underside, after cutting out the rusted spots? The underbody is basically a giant sheet of metal, but is rusted pretty badly.

1) Welcome to the weird and wacky world of classic British cars, great fun aren't they! I believe it is a pretty easy job to convert to negative ground(or nagative earth as we call it in the UK) although it does involve re-polarising the starter/dynamo. As with any vehicle of this age the wiring loom will probably be hacked around and less than flexible in the insulation department so replacing it is not a bad idea.

2) i think you should learn to live with the little engine, it's part of the charm and any major mods will devalue the car completely. There are some easy ways to tune them up including bigger MG engine transplants up to the Triumph 1500 used in late model midgets (not a great revver though) and the usual carbs/filters/heads/exhaust mods common to any car. I'm pretty sure people have shoehorned the ex-buick 3.5L Rover V8 into midgets as well.

3) Repair panels are easily available and pretty cheap (up to a complete new bodyshell IIRC) I think Moss have a North American operation, just do a google search on MG Parts suppliers or I could reccomend some in the UK that may export. For forums try the following, not sure who has what but may be of some use:

www.mgcars.org.uk/
www.mgownersclub.co.uk
www.mgoctagoncarclub.com/

If it's all there I would keep it original and maybe just invest in some period tuning mods. Know you know the kind of small sports cars that were old beaters over here when I was first driving 20 years ago!

[bpmcgee]

I have to agree with Lippy,

These cars may not have a huge amount of horsepower, but they have a very balanced design. Combine that with a flyweight chassis, and you have a nimble little car that you can really toss around!

Although the thought of a bigger engine in front has it's brute appeal, the greater weight of the engine is going to give you balance problems, and the extra horsepower will be REALLY difficult to keep on the road.

Try just doing the normal soup-up routine to the existing engine -- higher compression, etc. THAT is where you'll really build your fun, IMHO.

Brian

[jorgensensc]

Wow!! I didn't think I would get soo many responses to keep the engine. I will now have to reconsider my thoughts and rebuild it.
As far as the rockers go, only 1 appears to have been bondoed significantly, the other appears to have minimum rust, but I will probably replace both.
Lippyp,
When you say Dynamo, do you mean the generator? That is what I'm assuming. Thanks for the websights too.
Thanks for the input guys, I look forward to this project since there doesn't appear to be much to the car.
Any more suggestions or advice are definately needed and welcomed.
Shawn

[Bernie]

I grew up with MGs in UK. I think it's the case that any A series motor will fit. Mini Coopers used to have 1275 cc motors that, I think could be bored out to 1360 cc and then all the Weber carb stuff would fit. If you put a bigger motor in such a little car I think it would have a big effect on how it handles. Come to think of it, I wonder if my wife could go for a MG

[jorgensensc]

Bernie,
My wife wanted a little kick around convertible for the weekends and nice days. We didn't have too much money, so we got her this project. The cartools around O.K. , but I have the problem of wanting it perfect. Not necessarily restored, but maybe a resto-rod! Now she doesn't get upset with me when I buy parts for my truck. I get A.C. next week...Woohoo for me! It's all part of my diabolical plann (insert evil laugh here).
Thanks for the info on the engines. I guess my problem is I'm spoiled with 300 hp plus chevy engines, but I can definately see what y'all mean about the weight and balance transfer.

[Bernie]

I know just what you mean. I got a Jeep Wrangler for my wife for just the same reason. I told her that I saw her as the open topped sporty type. I did a quick search on e-bay and was surprised how cheaply a midget could be had. Please stay in touch about the restoration, I used to love these little cars. I remember once in UK when I worked construction, I had a friend with a midget with rusty rockers. We filled the rockers with concrete, trowelled it smooth and painted it. If anything, it improved the handling.
Bernie

[Fast67velle]

I've owned a few MGB's, a few TR6's and an Austin Healey. MGB's are pretty underpowered as they are, and the MG Midget is even more underpowered. I feel that by putting the V6 in (no matter what size V6) it deff wont devalue the car in anyway. It would probably make it worth more resale value wise. Make the car your own. I believe Moss Motors has a catalog for your MG and sell everything from engine parts to sheetmetal. I hope you enjoy your new little british project

[Lippyp]

Yep, Bernies pretty much right that any A series lump should fit and the 1275 engine was fitted to the Mk III models, the later rubber bumpered models had the Triumph sourced 1500cc engine as fitted to the Spitfire. This is quite a long stroke engine and not a very revvy one. For A series engine mods also look at Mini forums as mini's also had A series engines. I belive you can reliably go to 1380cc on an A series lump. Oh and yes Dynamo = generator i.e. pre-alternator.

And Bernie, I think a friend of mine may have bought several cars off you in the past........cough bodged together cough! LOL

[69 Short Fleet]

Got any Pics? Wow an LT1 in a MG? Yea I'd say your a little off upstairs!!! But I mean that in a GOOD way LOL!!! I think I'd rebuild what you have or go for a larger stock engine. later Doug

[smitty62]

IMO, the 2.8 is a real P.O.S. and the 4.3 is 'way too heavy for the car. I bought a new S-10 with a 2.8 and it wouldn't pull a greased P**k** out of a lard barrel. Maybe an aluminum Buick V-6?

[1969 GMC]

i agree, just say "no" to the 2.8L V6 if you decide to swap somehting.

however, a Buick 3800 Series II Supercharged would be a nice kick in the face engine for that small car! bwa ha ha!

[boraxman]

Consider the F*rd 4cyl. turbo and 5spd out of a mid 80's Thunderbird turbo coupe. Saw one done...very cool!

[jorgensensc]

Funny y'all say that aboutthe 2.8. I had one in my '91 S-10. It ws the second engine the PO had chevy put in. It was only 8 months old when I got the truck, and not 3 months after I had it I ruined the engine. That's how I ended up with the LT1 and 6 speed in my truck. I convinced the wife it was cheaper than putting another 2.8 in.
Also it's funny y'all talk about that buick motor. The guy I just ordered my A.C. from was saying I should use a 3.1 out of a buick. He said they are front wheel drive, but have the motor mount pads to put in front to back, instead of transversely. He also said a T-5 tranny from an s-10 would bolt right up. Any one else know if this is true?
Boraxman, F*rd is not totally out of the question, but I think that may be a last resort

[Martin64]

Dude you ain't crazy. This guy is crazy.....

http://www.jiffypark.com/vids2/misc/240z.mpeg

[krazy_texan]

i have a friend that has one with a little chevy Iron Duke from what i understand there was little modification

[jorgensensc]

Martin64, HOLY CRAP!! I guess I'm not the only insane one out there. You guys are going to think I'm crazy, but that video got me a little excited Too bad, I don't think my wife could handle the MG sliding all over the place everytime she hits the gas Maybe I will build my own MG, hmmmmm

[boraxman]

Originally posted by Martin64
Dude you ain't crazy. This guy is crazy.....

http://www.jiffypark.com/vids2/misc/240z.mpeg

Damn that Z probably goes through the tires!

[Martin64]

I thought it was cool as he77 too. Did you hear it idling?

[72C203503ONTHETREE]

Probably THE most important thing before you do anything is to dump the Lucas electrics(The Prince of Darkness as they are actuaslly known as) and get a Painless Wiring kit, I'm sure they make a kit that would easily be used in the MG and take care of the positive and negative swapping you want to do, and it will work forever.

As far as an engine goes, the 4.3 is a much better engine but as said earlier, it may be too heavy and make the car too nose heavy. Have you thought about a Honda V tec or a Nissan SR20dt(whatever it is, the turbo engine), they are aluminum, lioghter than the MG engine but with at least twice the power or three times if you can get a turbo Nissan engine. Look on e bay in the cars and parts, engine sectiuon and do a search on Nissan or Hondas, you can get those engines with all the wiring, computers, etc for less than $3,000, sometimes closer to 2K. If you get the Nissan the ones I saw also came with the 5 speed trans, and if they dont you can use a 240SX five speed. If you could find a Honda S2000 engine, that would be an excellent swap to, but they are probably too high right now, but youd have 240 hp and 9000 redline though. The old 2.3 Turbo Fords arent a bad engine either, just not as light as the Japanese engines. They can be made to make all the power youd like to.

I would make sure you do a good job with the body work, especially the floor and rockers. Use thick metal sheets and weld whatever you can. That will strengthen the body up and you can also add a roll bar(weld in) while you are doing that to provide some safety and body strength as well. If you and your wife can sit in them comfoprtably, get some Recaros or other racing style seats. Nothing like sliding around in the car around corners, lol.

[Bowtie67]

I would dump it, I used to do a lot of work on these things and what a peice of crap they are. If you are going to keep it and swapout out that useless thing they call an engine a 2.8L isn't really that bad of a motor neither is the old Iron duke. GM said they could build the 2.8L out to over 280HP and still be reliable. If you have ever drive the citation X11. 2.8L HO with a quadrajet it cooks, Maybe even a topend off a 3.1L for FI setup or find a 2.8L out of a later model Camaro or Firebird w/FI, this car is light so it won't take a lot of HP to get it moving. If you are going to fix it up I hope your not expecting to make any money on it because they were JUNKS. JMO

[smitty62]

Back in the old days (the 50's & 60's) it was the popular thing to swap in a Ford V-8 60 in the MG TC's and TD's. They were too heavy, but the choices were limited back then.

[shortymac83]

There are people that I've seen throw in rover 215 V8's in MG's. YOu could get an olds 215 pretty cheap, and they were turbocharged from the factory. Best yet, they're aluminum, so you don' t have much weight gain over the 4 banger. FCR has one for sale (don't think it's turbocharged tho...). Sorry, I don't know how much. They're located in Nebraska, it's running and I'd bet they'd ship. It'd need a rebuild after shipping though...