Why hasn't anyone done a NV4500 conversion?

[redz 1970 K5]

I am deadset on a NV4500 as my next winter project. Where else can you get the 5.61 1st (or a 6.34 if I am lucky) and .73 5th?

Just surprised I haven't heard more about it here. Seems like the ultimate trans swap for the 4x guys. I know it's easier to swap in a Dodge NV4500 then a GMC NV4500, something to do with linkage interference.

I will make this statement here and now- My K5 will roll out of the garage next spring with an NV4500.

[JIMs70GMC]

Have to get that steering arm off first!

I guess if I did more over the highway driving I'd look into it, but I live 4 miles from my work and everything is close here in SE VA.

[ryanroo]

pic one + pic two = happy ryan

i plan to do this over my spring break, provided some things happen as i hope they should. i got the tranny last friday, and spring break is in about 2 weeks

Ryan

[kickinasphalt]

I would love to do that swap with my SM465 (maybe someday). Is it possible to mount an NP205 behind the NV4500?

[1FaastC10]

Originally Posted by kickinasphalt

Is it possible to mount an NP205 behind the NV4500?

the picture is proof...

[kwmech]

Heeeeeeeeyyyyyyyyy that looks familiar----

[ryanroo]

Originally Posted by kwmech

Heeeeeeeeyyyyyyyyy that looks familiar----

Yes Sir I certainly hope so

Ryan

[BobS]

Ryan,

Who makes the adapter you're using? Is the bellhousing set up for manual linkage? Thanks!

Bob

[redz 1970 K5]

Originally Posted by JIMs70GMC

Have to get that steering arm off first!

Oooooohhh, that was a low cut there!

I don't feel so bad when I have the machine shop guys scratching their heads.

I will need a year after all of this work to get motivated again...

[ryanroo]

Originally Posted by BobS

Ryan,

Who makes the adapter you're using? Is the bellhousing set up for manual linkage? Thanks!

Bob

The adapters and the bellhousing are both advance adapters pieces. you have to use the AA bellhousing to use the mechanical linkage as there is no factory part that will allow it(mine is that AA bellhousing).
Ryan

[Devil'S Ride]

I really wanted to do that, but money constraints prevented me from it. I went with the SM465 setup, cause doin the hydraulic clutch thing woulda killed me financially. Mebbe someday I'll trade up, cause I really like those NV4500's.....there way sweet.....wonder if AA is gona make an adapter fer the NV5600 six speed.....as long as were usin the dodge trans......hehe, could be one helluva ride......gotta win the lottery first tho...thats my holdup.

[1FaastC10]

4500s were also used in 88+ Chevys, its not just a Dodge trans.

[4x4Poet]

Originally Posted by Devil'S Ride

I really wanted to do that, but money constraints prevented me from it. I went with the SM465 setup, cause doin the hydraulic clutch thing woulda killed me financially. Mebbe someday I'll trade up, cause I really like those NV4500's.....there way sweet.....wonder if AA is gona make an adapter fer the NV5600 six speed.....as long as were usin the dodge trans....

RyanRoo just said he used AA's bellhousing that enables the use of a mechanical clutch, such as on 67-72 GM trucks. Another option is to use a Lakewood SBC/BBC scattershield with the right input bearing diameter for an NV5600, weld close the trans bolt mounting holes, back with a plate, drill the NV5600 trans to bellhousing mount pattern, and you'll have a bellhousing worthy of the inherent strength of the NV5600. Takes a little extra research.

Drivetrain.com claims they sell an adapter to mate an NV5600 to an NP205 for $401. Click on the lefthand menu item "trans, manual," then go to the last big paragraph, click on NV5600 and look around for the link on the adapter. I don't yet know who makes it, such as AA, Novak, Marks4wd, etc., so I don't have any price comparison capability. AA does have a new catalog on their website that I have yet to peruse.

[edman87]

Need a body disposed of in trade for that loaded pallet? Nice setup, maybe if my '98 ever gets destroyed, I'll swap the nv4500 into the blazer, hopefully that won't happen.

[ryanroo]

I know you can get a McLeod hydralic clutch assembly from Performance Automotive wharehouse for like 300 bucks for a T/O and master cylinder. they just slide on the drive collar and fhave two flexible line that you have to hook to the MS. i thought about this set up to get rid of all the clutch linkage that seems to be in the way for headers and all that.
Ryan

[Americanrider]

Glad to see ryanroo scored that setup. I'm looking into the same thing but being on a budget I'm going to have to take it a step at a time. After calling the local tranmissions shops I been told that the diesel versions of the NV4500 have different tailshafts, they have a very large opening in the rear output, almost 4 inches. Is this just a Dodge thing or are the GM diesel trannys the same?

I've seen a few on e-bay but they all say that they have come from or fit diesel trucks. The hard part for me now is finding a trans from a gas engine that will work with the 205 adapter that I can get my hands on without paying core charge. If I'm on the wrong track here please someone tell me so. It would help if anyone knows or could post the different pics of the two types of tailshafts it could save a lot of trouble for someone before they buy the wrong tranny.

[BLAZERMAN]

Originally Posted by redz 1970 K5

I am deadset on a NV4500 as my next winter project. Where else can you get the 5.61 1st (or a 6.34 if I am lucky) and .73 5th?

Just surprised I haven't heard more about it here. Seems like the ultimate trans swap for the 4x guys. I know it's easier to swap in a Dodge NV4500 then a GMC NV4500, something to do with linkage interference.

I will make this statement here and now- My K5 will roll out of the garage next spring with an NV4500.

Here's a link to an ebay auction that may go cheap and its in your area.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...category=33733

[4x4Poet]

Originally Posted by Americanrider

...After calling the local tranmissions shops I been told that the diesel versions of the NV4500 have different tailshafts, they have a very large opening in the rear output, almost 4 inches. Is this just a Dodge thing or are the GM diesel trannys the same?

I've seen a few on e-bay but they all say that they have come from or fit diesel trucks. The hard part for me now is finding a trans from a gas engine that will work with the 205 adapter that I can get my hands on without paying core charge. If I'm on the wrong track here please someone tell me so. It would help if anyone knows or could post the different pics of the two types of tailshafts it could save a lot of trouble for someone before they buy the wrong tranny.

In Dec, I picked up the latest copy of 4x4 Garage magazine. It has extensive, but not complete, info on transmission & transfer case swaps for Jeep, Ford, & Chevy.
Some quotes from the Chevy section on NV4500s:

Pg. 63: "You can use a Chevy NV4500 by purchasing a whole new bellhousing from Advance that puts the clutch release arm on the driver side where it's out of the way and compatible with original manual clutch linkage. Or, you can swap a Dodge input into a Chevy NV, which allows you to use the stock manual bellhousing with an adapter plate. If a Dodge NV4500 is used, an original Chevy manual bellhousing can be retained with the same adapter plate, and all the clutch linkage stays the same.

....However, that's not the end of the story. In the case of the NP205 conversions, a GM output shaft is required, meaning that a GM output would have to be installed in a Dodge NV to complete the conversion. The bottom line is to do all the research for your proposed conversion first [] and then decide which version to use. Just be sure to steer clear of heavy-duty Dodge NV4500s, as these are much more difficult to adapt due to different index diameters, input shafts, and output shafts..." [by "heavy duty Dodge NV4500s", I think they mean CTD/V10 NV4500s]

Pg. 64: "You have three different ways to adapt an NV to an NP205, and all of them require GM output shafts. When using an NP205 originally coupled to an SM465, the tranny [NV4500] ouput shaft must be cut down and a special female coupler is used that's compatible with the male 31-spline output of the tranny and the male 10-spline input of the transfer case. A new tailshaft adapter housing is needed (a bracket for relocating transfer case shift controls is included), and the crossmember support area must be mildly altered to ensure the combination is adequately secured. The whole assembly is 1 inch longer than stock, so driveline mods may be necessary.

..."The second combination involves using an NP205 that was originally coupled with a TH350. This scenario is very similar to replacing the SM465 mentioned earlier, except the special female coupler that rides between the output shaft of the tranny and the input of the transfer case has 27 splines to be compatible with the existing transfer-case input. When attempting this swap on a truck originally equipped with an automatic, keep in mind that all the clutch linkage and a pedal will have to be added to the vehicle.

..."The third option is also the strongest. Starting in 1979, GM changed the input gear of 1-ton NP205s to a female 32-spline and eliminated the female coupler that mated the tranny and the transfer case. Instead, the output shaft of the tranny directly engaged the input shaft of the transfer case, providing a nearly indestructable coupling. The mounting-flange bolt pattern is also different on these NP205s. This can be duplicated with an NV4500, although it's more expensive than the other adapters. The NV must have a GM four-wheel-drive output, which will need to be cut down a little more than 1/2 inch. If a 205 is used from an application other than these special 1-tons, new female 32-spline input gear must be installed in the transfer case in order to accept a larger support bearing for the input. A new tailhousing is also required, but the overall length is identical to an SM465/NP205 combo, so driveshaft mods aren't normally necessary."

I'm not sure if all this info is correct for all NV4500 configurations involved with mating to NP205s.

[454_72_4X4]

I've been wanting to do this conversion for years! Been slowly collecting parts, but just have to come up with the extra $ for the AA adapter for the nv4500 to th400 style 205.
I'll be using a stock 92-95 chevy bellhousing with a hydro clutch. My truck has a 4in lift so there's room for the hydro slave cylinder on the passenger side.
I'm hoping to have room for a set of headers with all the manual clutch linkage out of the way.

Near as I've been able to find out;

1. The chevy gas and diesel engines use the same bellhousing.

2. 96-up (to?) chevy nv4500 are the same bellhousing to trans pattern as the dodge nv4500

3. 92-95 chevy nv4500 are a unique pattern that doesn't match any other trans to bell pattern.

4. 92-95 chevy bellhousings use an external hydro slave cylinder, (mounted under the starter on the passenger side).
96-up use an internal hydro thowout bearing.

5. 92-94 chevy nv4500 has the 6.34:1 1st gear. All others (chevy and dodge) have the 5.61:1 1st gear. (reverse gear ratio matches whatever the 1st gear ratio is. (IE 1st gear ratio 6.34 = reverse ratio 6.34, 1st gear ratio 5.61 = reverse ratio 5.61)

6. Input shafts from a 6.34 1st gear tranny can't be swapped into a 5.61 1st gear tranny with out changing the matching gears on the counter shaft. All other input shafts are interchangable. (Endplay clearance MUST be checked if the input shaft is swapped).

7. Bellhousing index, (front bearing retainer), diameter;
92-95 chevy nv4500 is 5.125in.
96-up chevy nv4500 is 5.6in.
Dodge nv4500 is 5.6in. (not really sure about this).

Now a question;

RyanRoo just said he used AA's bellhousing that enables the use of a mechanical clutch, such as on 67-72 GM trucks. Another option is to use a Lakewood SBC/BBC scattershield with the right input bearing diameter for an NV5600, weld close the trans bolt mounting holes, back with a plate, drill the NV5600 trans to bellhousing mount pattern, and you'll have a bellhousing worthy of the inherent strength of the NV5600. Takes a little extra research.

Is there such a bellhousing? Does Lakewood, (or other), actually make a bellhousing with the same index diameter as the nv4500? (5.125 or 5.6)

[Americanrider]

SBC Lakewood bells are for sale in ebay. I saw at least two one there the other day in the Man/trans section. You could e-mail one of the sellers to do some measurements for you to find out.

[4x4Poet]

Originally Posted by 454_72_4X4

Now a question;

Is there such a bellhousing? Does Lakewood, (or other), actually make a bellhousing with the same index diameter as the nv4500? (5.125 or 5.6)

I was saying that ryanroo said he has an AA alum bellhousing that mates between a SBC and a NV4500 and has provisions for the stock mechanical clutch. Lakewood surely makes a bellhousing that matches common chevy transmissions. I believe there are many trans that have the SM465-size input bearing size opening. But the bolt pattern won't match the NV4500, just like the stock SM465 bellhousings don't have the NV4500 bolt pattern. But because the Lakewoods are make of steel, they can be modified at the trans mounting holes fairly easily.

BTW, I just noticed that I typed NV5600 instead of NV4500. I must have 6-speed on the brain.

[454_72_4X4]

Originally Posted by 4x4Poet

Lakewood surely makes a bellhousing that matches common chevy transmissions. I believe there are many trans that have the SM465-size input bearing size opening. But the bolt pattern won't match the NV4500, just like the stock SM465 bellhousings don't have the NV4500 bolt pattern. But because the Lakewoods are make of steel, they can be modified at the trans mounting holes fairly easily.

I agree with ya about the steel bell being easier to modify. I just haven't been able to find a Lakewood bell with the same bearing retainer size as a sm465 trans. Most of the lakewood, (or steel in general), bells are made to fit a car type trans, (Muncie M21, M22, BW T-10, Saginaw, etc.). The car trans use a smaller bearing retainer diameter than the "truck" type trans, (sm465, early nv4500).

One day maybe I'll get around to just calling Lakewood themselves and asking but so far I've been lazy.

Another thing I've thought about is getting a steel bell for a car type trans and having a machine shop "enlarge" the hole to the bigger hole for the sm465/nv4500.

[4x4Poet]

Originally Posted by 454_72_4X4

Another thing I've thought about is getting a steel bell for a car type trans and having a machine shop "enlarge" the hole to the bigger hole for the sm465/nv4500.

We've been here before, haven't we? If Lakewood doesn't have the correct bellhousing, that would be a good idea, though you'll still have to get off your rear to find the part # for the best Lakewood bell to give the machine shop.

[454_72_4X4]

Originally Posted by 4x4Poet

We've been here before, haven't we? If Lakewood doesn't have the correct bellhousing, that would be a good idea, though you'll still have to get off your rear to find the part # for the best Lakewood bell to give the machine shop.

Hahaha, Yea, I think we have been here before!

I suppose the two things that keep me from checkin into the lakewood bells are 1. I hate phones, and 2. I have no plans for using one myself. I plan on using the factory bell and hydraulic clutch.

Alright, alright...Number 3. Lazy!

[ryanroo]

Got started on my swap over the past few days, right now i just need to redrill the crossmember holes in the frame and bolt it back on. also cut the cab hump for new shifters.
Ryan