Just tossing around an idea....

[chevychic]

and need some feedback.

Before I start, I just need to say to the moderators that this post is asking for feedback of an idea I have from the group of chevy/truck/gearheads I trust most, and in no way is this post intended to be a sales post. If this post needs to be removed because it's viewed as such, I apologize, but please let me know.

Now on to the nitty gritty

Most of you know that I used to ebay white face gauges for our trucks. I only had one design because of the gerber setup fee for each design change. There was a guy in the midwest that had the ability to print these up on a quality vinyl using a plotter so the ink was super infused into the medium, etc etc.
Then suddenly, the guy just stopped printing them up for me. No warning, nothing. So I stopped offering them on Ebay. There are print shops I could go to around here but the price would increase substantially from what I was getting them done for before.

Life got busy, yada, yada...but I've always felt bad about just not doing them anymore and kept thinking of a way I could do this and then it hit me that I could offer the file on CD in several formats that could be distributed so the end user had their choice of where and what medium they printed it on. They could take it to kinkos or a company with a full blown gerber plotter to have it printed however they see fit.
I could also take this a step further and offer custom designs if I did something like this since I have all the fancy software and template to make it happen.

Anyways, it would be a lot of work, but could offer some better (and possibly custom) solutions to people to dress up their gauge cluster.

Things that I would have to consider:
unauthorized reproduction/distribution....um that's all I guess

Thoughts/Comments/Suggestions/Advice??? All are welcome.

[79BIG10]

It would be a great idea Heather but like you mentioned in the end of the comment it would be hard to keep people from distributing them around once they had the pics etc. It would be better IMO to haev them printed up say one or two of each one you made up to be able to sell on Ebay as they were ready. This would keep your cost down some and keep them from being copied and redistributed.

[Liz]

Heather it would be a killer idea.. but your gonna get ripped. As soon as the cds are out people will bootleg em.

[chevychic]

Yeah, that's what's been holding me back.

I made up a set a while back for my VW Cabby which I took to kinkos and printed on an adhesive vinyl then had them apply a gloss coat to the non-sticky side of the medium. I had to go through 3 attempts because I couldn't get a competent person that could understand what it was I needed...or I just have high expectations of their employees....it finally got done right and cost about $11 if I remember right. The install was pleasant and the quality was better than the chevy gauges. However, vw gauges are flat and don't have the curved cup that ours do so the gloss coat and possibly the Kinkos cheap medium is not an option since it can't flex well.
Time to do more research. I just ordered a vinyl skin for my new cell phone and the medium that it was printed on would be great for this.

Thanks for the feedback

[cstanley]

i also think it's a great idea! more work, but perhaps you could offer a "truly" custom service, in which clients would let you know exactly what they wanted, and you could complete the design after initial approval (based on a small thumbnail image) and have it printed up. this way you could avoid the pirating, and make a little jack too. i know i'd like to purchase a set. and who wouldn't want to have a set that they 'designed' themselves.

btw, i understand that your point is so someone can take it and print it on any medium for themselves, but maybe there's an opportunity for you to offer said service.

i like it!

btw, is there any way to write-protect/watermark an illustrator/photoshop file, or whatever you're using? this could be really cool! i'd like a set printed on some sort of brushed aluminum foil...

[chevychic]

cstanley,

Your idea is pretty much what I had in mind. After a few rounds of getting the initial desired design and an approval process, then all would be zipped and loaded onto CD. I'm sure I could secure it by requiring a registration code to unlock the CD and such. I know just enough programming to get me in trouble with that sort of stuff. But being an IT geek by trade, I have several contacts that could probably help me make it happen. Or I can just stop long enough to learn my autocad software and create my own gerbers and possibly bypass the gerber creation fee so I can supply it on a quality medium at a good cost. Gerber fees are $35 + printing + medium so it can get close to $50 just for the print process and that's without adding in the cost for me to create the design. I guess I just need to make sure that enough people would be interested for me to warrant going through the trouble of setting something like this up.

Your idea of doing one on brushed aluminum is very doable. I'm IT admin for an electronics contract manufacturer. In our process we use aluminum stencils that are extremely thin. The stencils are etched/milled to a tolerance of .005"...about the width of a hair, so you can get very accurate, very minute lines. Once again, if I would ever stop long enough to learn the version of autocad I have sitting at home, I could create a gauge overlay that could be milled on aluminum so all the light comes through the markings so each tickmark and number is actually cut out and the light comes through. The back of the aluminum would be coated with a thin plastic like what is used on stage lighting, so when there isn't light coming through, you just see the color of the plastic where are the markings are cut. Some extreme modifying would be required to place in the cluster, but not impossible and the result would be one in a million...not many like it. I've had this swimming around in my head since I first started playing with overlays about 3 years ago. The aluminum and die cutting would cost between $100 - $150...still not bad considering it's one of a kind.

[Prerunner1982]

The whole piracy thing concerns me too, I know you have worked hard at this and would hate to see someone steal it from you. The cd idea sounds like an easier way to do it, but again the piracy.. Not real sure what to tell you about the process/medium.. I will always send people your way when they ask about them.. you might look into making a webpage specific to this... also as far as custom deisgns go, charge an extra fee for custom designs like most shops do, but then you could keep it on record so it will be cheaper for the next guy. Good luck hun, sorry I am not more help.. but keep us informed...

[Crank]

You got a picture of your gauge cluster? And can you actually change the fonts and sizes of the numbers and letters? Or do you not do them yourself or have someone else make them for you? I think I seen the link from '73-87.com about the leds behind the cluster and really liked them!! Thanks
Brando

[Prerunner1982]

There are examples of her work on her website...

http://webpages.charter.net/chvchk/

[chevychic]

Thanks Jon,

Crank,

I designed these myself and have the ability to modify anything and everything on them. Font/color/background, etc, etc. The sky's the limit.

Yeah the LEDs add a nice touch and unlike the 194 replacement LED bulbs you can dim them.

Edit: On the site Jon posted, you can view the cluster and LED projects by clicking on the "TRUCK" button on the left. They are linked within the text on that page.

[Liz]

Heather no matter what you do with this, just be careful that sounds gay but I mean with your ideas being stolen.. One site I belong to (paid honest etc) is a graphics site.. she sells her custom designs on cd and in the member area. People buy her stuff and are licenced to use it for whatever. The issue lies then with those who "share" her designs.. she has found her web designs etc on ebay with minimal changes being sold for alot more as "custom"..
Torrents, share sites, P2P etc will all find ways to steal your ideas..and you have put way to much into this to let that happen.
I understand serials and such, but for every serial someone comes up with a crack etc..
I wish you the best in all of this.. just be safe

[dwcsr]

Chevychic,

We are in the same field except I'm on the provider side. We deal with customers and graphic designers a lot for web pages. The pickiness of a customer on a design can some times be far over the cost of the design and some times they go with the first thing you show them.

We offer standard designs that can be used as templates and used with different colors or backgrounds but little variation for a fixed cost, and for a fee at a set rate that they agree to, we can design specific items to there liking. Its not that we want to sell template sites but it usually drives them toward a custom item if their budget allows. This does a couple of things for us. It gives us a fairly fixed cost on the template items and a guaranteed return on the specifically designed items. The customer knows that when they waste time on dragging out changes it cost them money thereby keeping them on the path so to speak. If you have various standard designs that you only change background or media your Gerber cost drop proportionately. On a full custom job you charge for the Gerber and related cost. Ideally if you have some standard types you could have them mass printed and possible distribute thru the various custom parts vendors and keep the custom items to your self.

Your idea is sound but what I see as a problem is controlling the process and product. If you give the designs out on CD you lost all control of the design and the potential revenue and possibly the product. You should be the provider of the print service. Give them water marked thumb nails of the items to choose from and go from there once you have either a choice or a basis for a design that needed to be more custom, then charge accordingly.

By creation you have an enforceable copyright on any design you make. This was made law it that last few years, of course this will not stop anyone from ripping your stuff.

[cstanley]

chevychic,
i think you're on to something. you can sign me up for one.

also, i work in autocad on a daily basis (architect) and have been for quite a number of years. i am very proficient, and any time you have any questions or need help, just let me know! i don't know anything about a gerber, but i'd be willing to help out (drafting) if you needed it (don't be nervous, that's not a proposition. i don't want to be a part of your business or idea, nor do i want anything out of it.) i would just like to see it work out for you, plus i want to buy one when you get one finished.

we (in the architecture profession) deal with this very issue of copyright on a daily basis, as clients and consultants always demand our electronic files and plans. after it's all said and done, it's really not too bad. however, we do have quite a bit of language in our contracts to help keep this in order. basically, the only deliverable we have to the client is the physical paper documents. they own the paper product. however, they cannot and will not own the electronic files, nor the intellectual property of the design firm. they also may not reproduce any of it on another project of theirs. if they request such files (CD's, digital files) then we sell them, but we still retain all rights.

i know that this is a little different, but it's still the same concept. it's just MUCH more difficult to enforce in your situation. for what it's worth, i'd really like to see you be successful in this project... good luck!

[chevychic]

You're all very right in the point you make about electronic distributieion. I agree that the electronic format is out and the safest way to manage this is to create the item from start to finish.

dwcsr ~ You have a very valid point there and a good solution. It's kind of like the guy I bought my phone skin from. He had about 30 designs. I could very easily do something similar, although 30 designs is a bit much, and provide a list of fonts that I could do to allow simple customization with an option to fully customize if someone wanted to do so.

cstanley ~ I may take you up on your offer to learn about this program. I was mistaken that it was autocad. It's actually turbocad, the lesser expensive of the two, but still doable. The only reason I need it is because the file type it outputs is the same format that a gerber viewer can open and then save as a gerber format. However, I may have found a converter that wasn't on the market when I first looked into this option. So I wouldn't need to learn CAD, although I'm sure it come in handy someday.

And after doing more research, I've found that the company that originally required gerber format has expanded the formats they use so I can now save any design in a format they can print.

So basically, the gerber format only applies if I want to do some in brushed aluminum....

Hmmm...this is something I could very easily start offering again. I just need to talk to the printing company to get some quotes.....

Edit: Sorry for all the typos, my PS2 to USB KVM switch likes to throw previously typed letters into the middle of my sentences. If I didn't have to run 2 computers, I'd ditch the switch!!

[dwcsr]

Well good luck and let me know when you start doing 55-59 speedo faces. The ones out now are not very interesting in fact I don't think there are any other than stock and Dakota Digital type faces. A nice carbon fiber look in corporate grey with a tiled chevy emblem pattern in lighter grey over lay.
Thats my order. But your not selling them here so its not my order

[cstanley]

Originally Posted by dwcsr

Well good luck and let me know when you start doing 55-59 speedo faces. The ones out now are not very interesting in face I don't think there are any other than stock and Dakota Digital type faces. A nice carbon fiber look in corporate grey with a tiled chevy emblem pattern in lighter grey over lay.
Thats my order. But your not selling them here so its not my order

yup, that goes for me, too. 'cept i'll need a set for a '72 (unavoidable if you decide to sell on this set of forums

good luck!

(btw, turbocad is a decent piece of software. runs almost identical to acad, even the same commands, and just about anything can output your .dxf file format. i assume that's what it would need to be.)

[chevychic]

Thanks guys.

If I'm gonna offer anything outside of the 73-87 style overlays, I'm gonna need some clusters to create the template, so if anyone has any they want to donate when I get ready for this, let me know

[dwcsr]

Originally Posted by chevychic

Thanks guys.

If I'm gonna offer anything outside of the 73-87 style overlays, I'm gonna need some clusters to create the template, so if anyone has any they want to donate when I get ready for this, let me know

I have one for mine. PM me know when when your ready.

[Crank]

Hey, I'd love to get a gauge cluster with lettering like this type. Is there way I could get somekind of idea what this would look like? If it wouldnt be too much trouble.

[augie]

ChevyChic it sounds like you have done a pretty good job of fleshing out this idea. But here's my .02, for what it's worth. I agree with the others that you must retain your designs for yourself once you start distributing them to others you loose any control you have over them.
It also sounds like you need to find a new supplier/printer who will be able to meet your budget constraints and quality standards. I think you are going down a pretty good path too in trying to find alternative mediums to print these on. Finally I think offering customizations is a cool way to go if you can do it easily enough (if you can get the other pieces have to fall in to place first) and I would be in line to pick up a set of the 73-87 (with a GMC emblem instead of the bowtie) when they're ready.

[N2TRUX]

DO NOT sell your designs. No matter how hard you try to protect them some scum will end up pimping them on Ebay. Take the time to find a solution so you can offer a finished product.

You have one of the nicest overlays designed for our trucks. Keep it close to your heart and find the right source to print it in a cost effective manner...

[dwcsr]

You may try to do what we are doing in our industry. We now sell software as a service rather than a product. We sell you the right to use it for a particular purpose and we always own the software. Maybe you could grant particular use license and never relinquish the actual ownership of the design. They just own the rights to use it on their dash gages. They can't reproduce, transfer, or copy it. Maybe only let them sell the one copy they have if it’s still attached to a Speedo head or gage of some type what ever the original purpose was. It would make it easier to go after the ebayer that rips your stuff.

[Captkaos]

I have several people that I have sent to you for these. I hope I haven't overran you with it.

[chevychic]

I appreciate it Chris. It's good to know they're good enough to be recommended.

This guy www.durangedesigns.com offers them for our trucks for $20 + $3 s&h....I don't think the design is all that great, but I can't beat his price. He also has a ton of other models he does them for.

I talked to the local print shop and got pricing of $25 per sq ft...these come up to about 3/4's of a foot but I have to pay for a sq ft minimum, so right off the bat, I'm not able to match this guy's price...however, I can bring in as many custom designs as I want and its only the cost of printing on the material, so I CAN do custom designs or offer a variety of designs without it being too far overpriced as I had thought originally.

[Prerunner1982]

"You get what you pay for".... I would rather pay more for yours than feel like I wasted my money on his. Besides you have better advertising than he does.... you have us.. You dont have to go out and pretend you are a satisfied customer of your own product.. I would definately make a dedicated website for the overlays though.. Glad to see you are getting back into this...