Sticky lifters?

[bryanw1968]

I posted this in the motor section also.

I recently installed a new set of aluminum Trick Flow Kenny Duttweiler heads, new intake and some stainless steel full fulrcom roller rockers. The motor sat for about a week before I finished and now even though the rockers are adjusted the lifters are still chattering a little. I let it set a couple of days and the lifters seemed to have pumped up a little. I am not sure what else to try to get them to quiet down. Could they be stuck or sticking? I just put some Marvel Mystery oil in the crank case hoping it will help.

Any experience or advice is welcomed.

Thanks,
B-dub

[1970 CST Short Wide]

Big Block ? Small Block ? Need a bit more info

Could the rockers be hitting the valve covers ?

[Billla]

Originally Posted by 1970 CST Short Wide

Could the rockers be hitting the valve covers ?

that would be my first place to check if you're SURE the rockers are adjusted right and you didn't change ratio when you changed rockers. Easiest way to check is to look for witness marks on the valve cover.

I put a high-lift cam/springs in a buddy's engine that he brought over. He put the engine back in, but complained of a noisy valvetrain . He drove the car over and we found that his (luckily aftermarket) Corvette cast-aluminum covers wouldn't clear the new lift and were spider-cracked in front of each rocker. Oops.

[bryanw1968]

It's a sbc 350 .040 over. It makes this noise with the valve covers off.

[Billla]

Originally Posted by bryanw1968

It's a sbc 350 .040 over. It makes this noise with the valve covers off.

I took a quick surf to the site in your .sig, and saw the pic with the broken valve spings - ouch. Have you checked for coil bind and looked at the valvetrain geometry. And, just to confirm - the new rockers are still the same ratio, correct?

[Sweet72]

New flat tappet cam? If so, did you break it in properly? You should be able to isolate the noise down to the noisy lifter(s).

[Werewolf]

Roller rockers are inherantly going to make some noise. If it's not rapping with the hood closed, you should be just fine. I've got 1.6 rollers on an LT-1, and they never shut up, despite being perfectly adjusted.

[truckdude239]

did you soak the lifters in oil before you insatlled them?

[bryanw1968]

Originally Posted by Werewolf

Roller rockers are inherantly going to make some noise. If it's not rapping with the hood closed, you should be just fine. I've got 1.6 rollers on an LT-1, and they never shut up, despite being perfectly adjusted.

Good point. No it doesn't make noise with the hood shut at idle. But going down the road they're noisy.

Here's what I did. I had a running motor with world product S/R's and 1.5 roller tip rockers. I yanked those and through on the aluminum trick flows and a set of 1.6 full rollers. The cam, lifters and push rods are all the same as before. The rockers don't hit the valve cover. It makes the same noise on or off. I can back off the rocker stud bolt until it starts tapping and then tighten back up until it quits. Then 1/4-1/2 a turn. There is no rocker noise but there is still lifter noise.

It runs great it's just bugging the crap outta me and I want to make sure that I'm not going to screw up a lifter if that is in fact what the problem is.

[Billla]

I have to admit to some real worries given the 1.5 -> 1.6 rocker ratio change. Even on the car have you checked for coil bind at full lift? If this is happening the the only two points of "give" are the stud and the lifter.

I may be off-base here, but that was my initial concern and hence the continued questions about the rocker ratio.

[70rs/ss]

1.6 vs a 1.5 will increase lift considerably (at least enough to cause coil bind) what lift are the heads (springs) good to? You should be able to determine the lift after the 1.6 if you know the cam specs, then determine if the springs on the heads are OK, one other thing, there are lifters out there that rattle like nobodies business at idle but pump up under high revs (to help cut the lope of a big cam at idle) Rhodes makes some and there are others, does it quiet down going about 2-3k rpm?

[bryanw1968]

Thanks for the replies guys...

Definitely not coil binding. These are 1.46" springs at 125lbs. of seat pressure at a 1.80 install height. I realize that the 1.6 ratio rockers will give me another .030 of lift. The cam is an extreme engery comp 268. .224 intake and .230 exhaust and .477 lift. I should be good there.

I'm just thinking that maybe the lifters have a "memory" if you will and are not like the adding lift.

Hmm.....

[Billla]

Originally Posted by bryanw1968

Definitely not coil binding. These are 1.46" springs at 125lbs. of seat pressure at a 1.80 install height. I realize that the 1.6 ratio rockers will give me another .030 of lift. The cam is an extreme engery comp 268. .224 intake and .230 exhaust and .477 lift. I should be good there.

I'm just thinking that maybe the lifters have a "memory" if you will and are not like the adding lift.

IMHO if you haven't physically checked for coil bind you don't know for sure but since you feel you have that covered, I'll drop it.

The lifter is just a machine . If the lash is set correctly the lifters should be experiencing the same amount of preload and their travel within the lifter bore is unchanged. All the changes in lift are "downstream" from the lifter.

[bryanw1968]

I am fairly certain that I'm not coil binding. These heads are spec'd to handle .560 lift and I'm probably not even over .500 yet. They are the Trick Flow Kenny Duutweiler 23 degree twisted wedge aluminum heads. They already come with big springs, 7/16" screw in studs, guide plates and hardened seats.

Still scratching my head.....

[Green Machine]

The 1.6 rockers will move the pushrod closer to the stud, is there clearance at the bottom of the pushrod guide plate slot ? Might need to check at closed, half-way and full lift since the clearance distance changes. I have also seen roller rockers that did not clear the valve spring retainer also, right where the arm meets the fulcrum on the under side. They had to be machined down in that area a little to clear.

[bryanw1968]

Wow....

Very good points to check. Lemme take a look and get back to you.
Thanks,
B-dub

[bryanw1968]

O.k....

So I've done some more research on this.
I contacted comp cams and they said that the extreme energy series cam is noisy by nature because of how fast the exhaust valve slams shut. Also, they mentioned that the pro-magnum roller rockers are also noisy by nature. Those 2 factors combined with an aluminum valve covers is making the noise louder. I don't care as long as I'm not hurting anything.

Thanks for all of the responses.
B-dub

[1970 CST Short Wide]

That’s exactly why I threw away the &^%$#@ Comp Cam I had in my Big Block and went with Lunati. Better performance and WAY less noise
Just my 2c

[71/454]

Just curious, did you set the lifters cold first? You mention doing it while the engine is running backing off til it raps and giving a 1/4 turn. Just my 2 cents but doing them cold seemed to be more consistant than hot to me in my experience

[bryanw1968]

Originally Posted by 71/454

Just curious, did you set the lifters cold first? You mention doing it while the engine is running backing off til it raps and giving a 1/4 turn. Just my 2 cents but doing them cold seemed to be more consistant than hot to me in my experience

Initially I set them with the motor off. Then after getting it started and hearing the noise I started to do them with it running. HUGE mess and I HATE doing it that way. Ugh........