Which one's the better engine?

[Rust Buster]

Ok, since the price is about the same, take that out of the equation. I'm dead set on a 383, so which is the better engine. Looking for reliability in a daily driver with plenty of low end torque. I'm by no means an engine guru, so hoping you guys can tell mem which one is better. Definitely like that they both have forged cranks and roller cams. I know that some of the Smeding engine text is hard to read, so here's what is says...

"Our years of experience enable us to tailor Smeding engine packages to your specific needs, and if pulling power is what you're after, then this package is for you. For one-ton work trucks, four wheelers, and heavy duty towing, here is the low-end torquer for you. Thanks to the high vacuum you'll also receive good fuel economy.


• Dyno tuned and calibrated with print out
• Stock idle
• Works well with overdrive
• Works with power brakes
• Requires 87 octane fuel
• Requires stock stall converters
• Accepts mechanical fuel pump
• 2 year limited warranty, unlimited mileage"

[1969k10stepside]

You could build a 383 your self and save some coin...there is just no warranty.If you build it right,there shouldn't be any problems for a long time anyway.If it was me,I'd get some engine overhauling books,pick up the right tools and build it myself...I just rebuilt the motor for mine and it's going in tonight
Unless I was needing a engine quickly,then building it myself would be the way to go.

[Rust Buster]

That's an option too, and one that I would be willing to do, just don't have the experience doing it. I've done just about everything but rebuilding an engine. How much would a good quality do it myself engine cost that has similar components to these? How much would the tools cost, and what would I need? There's nothing wrong with the block I took out, just old and tired.

[1969k10stepside]

I have over a grand in my motor rebuild.It isnt a 383 stroker but it suits me.The block was bored,the stock crank was polished.New pistons,rings,bearings,timing chain,cam,lifters,etc etc.Stuff adds up.
Here is a link to a kit on ebay just to let you see what kind of pricing you are looking at and for what stuff.It's gonna take more then whats in the ebay auction to get you a stroker motor though...
link

[dubs68SWB]

I don't know......just doesn't seem like a lot of horsepower for the money you spend. Since these truck are so darn heavy, I prefer the torque of a BBC and the horsepower you get with it. It seems like you could get a crate 454 long block and get more for less money spent when it was all said and done. I'm bias though because I build all my own motors and get a ton of HP for the money I spend.

[1969k10stepside]

Except adding a big block to the equation adds its own share of probems on a 4 wheel drive.

[Rust Buster]

How much does a typical machine shop charge to prep my old block for a rebuild to a 383? Not looking for anything radical, just what is needed for a solid foundation.

[1969k10stepside]

I dont know what all it takes to make a 383 stroker but on my rebuild they charged $225 to bore the cylinders and $50 to clean the block in a tank.Prices vary by geographic location though.

[dubs68SWB]

Originally Posted by 1969k10stepside

Except adding a big block to the equation adds its own share of probems on a 4 wheel drive.

This is true!!! Clearance can be tricky!

[brak]

you should check out PAW (performance automotive warehouse), their catalog is $5, but worth every penny for all the info in the back. I call it the engine building bible.

They sell complete engine kits in all sizes, and you get the fun of assembling it yourself. you can choose the type of piston, cam, etc, hell you can even choose the color the block is painted.

I got a 388 stroker from them a few years ago for $2800

[grayw0lf]

400sbc.

[Billla]

Originally Posted by Rust Buster

How much does a typical machine shop charge to prep my old block for a rebuild to a 383? Not looking for anything radical, just what is needed for a solid foundation.

It depends to some extent what you buy for a 383 kit. If you buy a complete rotating ass'y from SCAT or Eagle, then the only expense is a bit of clearancing on the bottom of the bores - a few hundred bucks at most. If you just buy a 383 crank and use your existing rods and new pistons - then more time will be required to balance everything, and they have to check carefully for clearance between the rods and the cam. The best bet by far is to buy the whole kit from one vendor.

[Billla]

I guess the first question is what are you doing with a daily driver that requires a forged crank? :-D Both those engines are fine, but overkill IMHO.

You can certainly get the close to those HP/TQ numbers for less money. You can likely overhaul your existing 350 with a cast crank/hyperutectic piston ass'y for < $3000.

[Orange]

http://www.jegs.com/webapp/wcs/store...59687_-1_10763
A "little" more expensive, but the baddest SBC crate there is IMO.

DLB

[Rust Buster]

Well I was looking for a forged crank because I want to do this once, do it right and have it last for a long long time standing up to whatever I throw at it (heavy towing, hauling, no offroading) down the years. I'm certainly willing to listen about other ideas. Is it way overkill or part of a very solid foundation?

[Frizzle Fry]

The only reason to go to a forged crank IMO is if you plan to run this thing way up the rpm range (6000-6500+). That's not where a torque monster is designed to run so... Scat makes some nice iron cranks. Just a thought...

[Rust Buster]

That makes sense to me, but why do most built-for low RPM torque 383s come with forged cranks? the GM one even says the RPMs max out at like 5000.
I don't know, I am just asking the question.

[charlie diaz]

I'm putting the same motor in my truck, and I've been researching it for over a year now. A cast crank is PLENTY good for a daily driver. A racing buddy of mine has used a cast crank his circle track car for 2 seasons, and he's in the middle of his second season with the same crank in a sprint car motor! Both motors were constantly spinning between 5500 and 6200 rpms every race. Its not stock, it's a SCAT crank. So this should tell you something about how strong a cast crank is. Unless you are going to be taking your truck to the truck and running it every weekend, then forged is overkill. As far as the machine work goes, the shop I use quoted me right at $400 for a completely stroker prepped block. They have to grind down the block in certain areas so that the rod bolts will clear. If you can find a 400 sbc, then I would go with that. As long as you cool it right, a 400sbc is the best bang for your buck, and less hassle. Hope this helps!

[Billla]

Originally Posted by Rust Buster

Well I was looking for a forged crank because I want to do this once, do it right and have it last for a long long time standing up to whatever I throw at it (heavy towing, hauling, no offroading) down the years. I'm certainly willing to listen about other ideas. Is it way overkill or part of a very solid foundation?

Think of it this way - MOST factory engines came with cast cranks...and ones that aren't as good as the cast cranks today - and they did a lot of towing and lasted 100K miles plus

Forged is really more targeted for drag racing, high RPM and power adders (NOs, blowers, etc.)

[70rs/ss]

Forged is overkill unless you plan to pound on that motor daily, as for why are the two motors built with them? For one, the manufacturers get them for pennies on the dollar, they are warranteeing it for two years (good insurance) forged just sounds better in the info, etc, etc. I have found forged cranks to be tougher to a point, but then they can break instead of flexing like a cast crank will, which can be a bad thing. A balanced 383 cast crank kit can be had from Summit for $900, then all you need is the $600 Vortecs, a 350 block and someone to put it together. I'd say I could build you a wicked bad 383 for no more than $2500 (and so could you) or at the very least your machine shop should assemble it for you for $3-500 more, still way below the $4k asking price on either of these motors. I think powerhouse offers an even more reasonable 383 kit for about $600 balanced, and you can upgrade the components as you wish, but still under the $900 from Summit. For what you want, the Summit or powerhouse kit will make you very happy and save you at least $1-1500!!

[Billla]

Originally Posted by Rust Buster

That makes sense to me, but why do most built-for low RPM torque 383s come with forged cranks? the GM one even says the RPMs max out at like 5000.
I don't know, I am just asking the question.

Keep in mind that you're only looking at crate engines - by far the greatest number of aftermarket stroker kits sold are cast cranks with hyperutectic pistons.

If you're willing to pop for the money, then by all means buy the best you can get

[68GMC454]

if your not racing it..i dont see the need for the forged crank..the low end torque would be good if you do alot of towing up out of a big steep hole or somethign like that...and reall for racing, these motors are not turniing enough rpms in the middle to top end.., just my thoughts on it..i like the warrenty though, unlimited milege is a plus..but it would be cheaper to do the work yourself, or make a new firend that has built a few motors, and see if he will help you do it..preferably one who already has the tools to build it..

[manimal]

Cast steel cranks from Eagle and Scat are about 20% stronger than the factory cast iron cranks. Plus they have a larger radius on the journal fillet=more strength. Check out the engine forum. There have been SEVERAL posts on the 383 builds. Bill is very good with his desktop dyno. And everyone here that has experience building these engines will be more than happy to assist you with any info.
-Lance

[RetroSBK]

Yeah true, forged cranks are a bit overkill for a regular street motor, but what a better place to spend the money than on a good crank, forged rods, and forged pistons!

However, it is a LOT cheaper to do it with a cast crank... If you are doing some serious RPM or doing a lot of heavy towing with a manual trans, go forged for sure...

My crank is a SCAT forged, but I run th3 limiter at 7700, and pretty much put her there whenever I drive her! (or at least try to!)

One guy I have done a lot of biz with and can point you towards is Skip White. A lot of guys will whine about him because he pretty much tell the truth on what a motor will do, HP and torque wise, based of the dyno, not a "seat of the pants" or other fantasy. (its funny how many 500hp motors make 325 at the wheels on a dyno!)

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/SBC-C...mZ260123314696

Thats his 383 roller assm for $795

also listed is his 383 cam set, and a bunch of other goodies. They can also do the clearancing needed for your 383 conversion on a CNC, which is a bit overkill, but still a nice way to go.

Kinda digging around a bit, and if you take your time, and build it yourself, you could pretty much do an aluminum headed 383 with some of the bits from them, and some others for about 4k. with my aluminum heads and the reverse rotation waterpump, I can run on 87 octane and never heat the thing up...

Food for thought FWIW!

Will

[70GMCer]

Just had my 350 block machined for 383. Included cleaned, 30 overbore and deck honed, notched for clearance and cam bearings installed for $418.00

The Scat 383 kit costs me $679.00 (crank, rods, pistons & rings, bearings, balancer/flywheel) All new Scat parts with Sealed Power pistons, (9.5 compression).

I already have Dart heads i'll be using. I plan on spending around $1200.00 when done. That's me putting it together. Get books and read up. It's pretty simple really. I have the short block already together.