Timing Issues HELP Please

[Imacarguytoo]

OK heres a run down of whats going on. Its an early 70,s 350 witha stock timing cover from that year. I have set the distributor in at tdc with rotor button at #1 wire on the cap. The motor is at 0 degrees. I set the timing at 8 degrees. I have takin it for a drive and it still pings. Its got great power. But it also starts hard.
Anyone got any ideas of whats going on. This motor has less than 3000 miles. It had the points dist in it and ran great with no pinging. I changed it over to Hei and swapped out 3 hei's. But still the pinging and hard starting. Its my daily driver...todays my day off to fix it. Im really tired of messing with it. But its GOT TO RUN. The internals are stock.

[rage'nrat638]

moved to engine

[Imacarguytoo]

Ok well...i burnt the starter up. I will get another 1 tonite for it. A friend of mine at a machine shop said to just time it by a vacuum gauge. He said hes seen too many times the mark on the balancer move. So i hope she will go with that.

[Billla]

Any time something changes, it's worth spending some time thinking about. Does the HEI have a solid 12V running to it? Are you 100% sure you have TDC located and #1 on the HEI located correctly?

Timing by vacuum doesn't work, and timing marks don't move very often...and if they do, it's time to replace the balancer as the outer hub has slipped. It's easy with a piston stop to find and mark TDC - happy to take you through it, I'm actually planning on doing a FAQ tonight with pictures.

[Imacarguytoo]

Is there anyway i can call you on my dime? PM me your number. I really gotta get her going tonite. I think it would be easier on the phone.

[bills67]

The #1 plug location on the HEI is in a different spot than the points distributor, ensure this is correct first.
When i switched over to the HEI I had to remove a resistor block that dropped the voltage to the points distributor, during engine start, to 9 volts. When engine started 12 volts were returned to the distributor. This could be causing the hard starts. The HEI req's the full 12 volts at all times.

[Imacarguytoo]

Originally Posted by bills67

The #1 plug location on the HEI is in a different spot than the points distributor, ensure this is correct first.
When i switched over to the HEI I had to remove a resistor block that dropped the voltage to the points distributor, during engine start, to 9 volts. When engine started 12 volts were returned to the distributor. This could be causing the hard starts. The HEI req's the full 12 volts at all times.

I ran a 10 guage wire from the fuse box to the hei. So the resister wire is not used now.

[Imacarguytoo]

Originally Posted by Billla

Any time something changes, it's worth spending some time thinking about. Does the HEI have a solid 12V running to it? Are you 100% sure you have TDC located and #1 on the HEI located correctly?

Timing by vacuum doesn't work, and timing marks don't move very often...and if they do, it's time to replace the balancer as the outer hub has slipped. It's easy with a piston stop to find and mark TDC - happy to take you through it, I'm actually planning on doing a FAQ tonight with pictures.

I have 12.24 volts at the battery. The same at the bat side for the hei. I put the starter on. It still wont start. I dont know what to do now with it.

[Imacarguytoo]

Ive been thinking.....Ok what i mean by wont start is it will not turn over fast at all. Now i do have a fresh battery in it. Heres what im thinking. The purple wire going to the starter. What does it do. Does it just turn the engine over from the key?? If the wire is weak or hard as a brick (down by the starter) Will it maybe make the engine turn over slow?


Maybe my electrical system in the truck isnt up to par to run a hei? Maybe the motor is timed right and with low power from a bad wire will not allow the correct amount of juice to the dizzy. Maybe thats why it pings?? Is so how do i fix the problem?

[bills67]

Maybe the starter isn't getting the full 12 volts it needs to crank over. The resistor block I removed, as I understand it, took power away from the distributor, down to 9 volts, to allow the starter the full 12 volts it needs when cranking, once starter was disengaged the full 12 volts was returned to the distributor. It's been a few years since i did this. Thinking back there may have been some wiring going to the starter that also needed reworked. If you've got a maintenance manual (Haynes), find a wiring diagram for a newer truck, mid 70's, with HEI ignition and compare it to the points style. That's basically what i did, Wired the truck for the HEI. I also changed the spark plugs to match the ignition.

[Imacarguytoo]

Originally Posted by bills67

Maybe the starter isn't getting the full 12 volts it needs to crank over. The resistor block I removed, as I understand it, took power away from the distributor, down to 9 volts, to allow the starter the full 12 volts it needs when cranking, once starter was disengaged the full 12 volts was returned to the distributor. It's been a few years since i did this. Thinking back there may have been some wiring going to the starter that also needed reworked. If you've got a maintenance manual (Haynes), find a wiring diagram for a newer truck, mid 70's, with HEI ignition and compare it to the points style. That's basically what i did, Wired the truck for the HEI. I also changed the spark plugs to match the ignition.

THe plugs are regapped to 45. Does anyone have a wiring diagram to compare for me. I dont have a chilton or haynes. The only wire going to the starter now is the purple and the big 1 from the battery....looks like i have 2 promlems now. Not turning over fast enuf and pinging. ARRGHH its my daily driver and im going to end up missing work over this truck.

[Billla]

Originally Posted by Imacarguytoo

THe plugs are regapped to 45. Does anyone have a wiring diagram to compare for me. I dont have a chilton or haynes. The only wire going to the starter now is the purple and the big 1 from the battery....looks like i have 2 promlems now. Not turning over fast enuf and pinging. ARRGHH its my daily driver and im going to end up missing work over this truck.

Sorry, dude - didn't see your phone call request until now

The purple wire just energizes the solenoid - cranking speed is determined by the big red cable going to the BAT terminal on the starter...and the quality of the engine ground.

Note that these two sound related...if it's cranking slow the timing could be really off...

[swb85]

You might check/replace your negative battery cable. A bad ground can cause slow cranking, and they're only a couple bucks. I just had to replace mine a few months ago.

[lurch115]

okay....i just ran through the same issue as you are having.....i have a pretty lumpy cam in a 355....so i was playing with the timing to crank out as much power as possible....i set the timing at 33 degrees and it would start okay when it was cold....but would crank really slow the first couple turns when it was hot.....so i backed it off to 30 degrees and it solved the problem....so i'd say the problem you have is that your timing is over advanced....try timing it by ear the best you can...back it off a little and see if it starts easier..if it does then you know your timing is over advanced and that your harmonic balancer has walked on ya

[Billla]

Originally Posted by lurch115

okay....i just ran through the same issue as you are having.....i have a pretty lumpy cam in a 355....so i was playing with the timing to crank out as much power as possible....i set the timing at 33 degrees and it would start okay when it was cold....but would crank really slow the first couple turns when it was hot.....so i backed it off to 30 degrees and it solved the problem....so i'd say the problem you have is that your timing is over advanced....try timing it by ear the best you can...back it off a little and see if it starts easier..if it does then you know your timing is over advanced and that your harmonic balancer has walked on ya

30 degrees initial timing?

IMHO, this isn't the right approach, as it's just guessing vs. finding TDC and setting timing where you know it should be and working back the problem from there.

Sorry, not trying to be a d*ck - but you can spend a lot of time guessing or just "do the math" and be SURE everything's right.

[OlChev67]

make a piston stop to be sure of tdc

[Imacarguytoo]

ok guys i set it at 8. Took it for a drive, ping ping! I just went down from there. Its set at 2 degrees, doesnt ping, starts good. BUT i know its not right. So im going to make that piston stop pictured and see whats going on from there. It runs now, it will get me to work in the morning. Thank-You sooo much for all the help!!!!!!!!!

[Billla]

Cool beans.

You can get a stop from Summit and others - your local NAPA/Schucks probably has one...

http://store.summitracing.com/partde...5&autoview=sku

[jamis]

Sounds like your on the right track. you cant go wrong with what Billla was telling you.




For the next time you think your timing is so far advanced its not letting you turn your engine over, remove the hot wire to the dizzy and then try to turn it over without ignition spark. If it still doesn’t turn over or has a hard time turning over your problem is not an over advanced situation. Look to your cranking circuit.