Won't start....need help ASAP! - The 1947 - Present Chevrolet & GMC Truck Message Board Network

Ackattack · 06-22-2007, 01:01 AM

Ok guys, I need some help and you are all the most knowledgable people I know when it comes to old school chevy engines

So I'm going on a camping trip tomorrow in my motorhome.

Its an 84 454 with a turbo 400. Its got a quadrajet carb on it.

Basically when I hit the start switch sometimes it will crank over, some times it won't. I put a new battery in it, new high torque mini starter, new remote solenoid,and new cables. So everything from the battery to the starter is new. So as long as the starter solenoid gets the switched input it should turn over. Well it doesn't all the time.

So like I said, its an 84, so of course it has miles of vacum hoses. Tonight I popped off the entire air cleaner assembly so that just the carb was there. I tried starting it, and it turned over like it was nothing! Of course it didn't start. I messed around with this hose and that and the carb linkage and finally it fired up. I turned the distributor to advance the timing a little so it would run smoothly and it was fine. I tried starting it up a few more times and it did it fine.

I let it run for a while and then drove a few feet to its parking spot, now it won't turn over again!

I'm thinking it has something to do with the carb, but it seems awfully wierd that the carb could stop the stupid thing from even turning over. But the only carbs I've really messed with is Edelbrocks. I mean I could understand having problems if it was a 13:0:1 454, but this "bad boy" is probably about 8:1.

So like I said I need some suggestions on things to look for or check before I go on vacation.

Thanks
Derek

**67 cst swb** · 06-22-2007, 01:08 AM

Check for a loose electrical connection, either at the battery or at the solenoid. Sounds to me like an electrical issue, but not a serious one...
The times it won't turn over... Can you jump the terminals on the remote solenoid and it work?
But, I'm no expert. Hopefully someone else will jump in here...

Ackattack · 06-22-2007, 01:10 AM

The battery cables and other electrical connections are all tight. I mean I was having the exact same issues with the stock starter without a remote solenoid.

Oh, I also tried to play with the timing to see if that would make it easier to fire up, it didn't really seem to help.

Ackattack · 06-22-2007, 01:12 AM

Oh yeah. It also has some type of vacum operated valve in the passenger side exhaust manifold. I don't know if this thing works or not, but even if it were closed I don't think it would stop it from turning over.

**67 cst swb** · 06-22-2007, 01:16 AM

I definately think your issue is electrical...
What about the ground wire to the motor?.... clean connection? Solid? That also a NEW cable?

**67 cst swb** · 06-22-2007, 01:17 AM

The times that it does not turn over, Is there an audible "click" when the starter tries to engage or absolutely nothing?
Do the dash lights do dim or out? is it the same when it turns over as when it does not?

Ackattack · 06-22-2007, 01:21 AM

when it doesn't turn over, it actually tries to, maybe turning an 1/8th of a turn in the process before it get's stopped. Its not like a bad solenoid (I've had plenty of issues like that on my 72....so I know it's not that)

I'll have to check the ground cable.....didn't check that.

krue · 06-22-2007, 01:24 AM

If it won't turn over you have to check a few things...first is battery cables. Good tight, clean connections at the battery and starter/engine. Make sure the cable to the starter isn't grounded to the exhaust manifold (have had that happen to me). Check your ignition switch by checking for 12v at the solenoid when you turn the key to the crank position. You can half-ass check the soleniod by listening to see if it clicks when you hit the key. If it's a solenoid that's on it's way out you can sometimes start it by tapping the solenoid with something when it won't turn over and see if that helps. The only other thing I can think of is taking the starter to a parts store and having them check it.

motopatzo · 06-22-2007, 01:26 AM

when yu say it doesn't "turn over", is there any other sound like clicking, or solenoid engaging or a slow starter speed? I am thinking if you have nothing- .....try and run a jumper wire to the S terminal of the starter to check if it will turn over then. It it does turn over with a jumper, could be bad neutreal safety switch, bad wire to starter or bad connection causing a voltage drop.

**67 cst swb** · 06-22-2007, 01:27 AM

have someone watch everywhere (underhood, underneath at starter) while cranking (or attempting to crank) hopefully, one of those times it doesn't start it will spark, this will show you if there is a poor ground somewhere...
Also, if it attempts to start(1/8 turn or so) I definately think it's electrical. My only other thought would be the key switch, but not thinking so.... This may sound funny but,... if it's a tilt steering column, be sure it's in the straight position... I've had them up in the highest up-tilted position and had problems before.... also be sure the shift lever is fully in park (above mentioned Nuetral Safety Switch)

motopatzo · 06-22-2007, 01:34 AM

Ok, it is intermittent, and it tries to turn over. Everything else is replaced. I would look at the ground as well. Even if it is tight at the frame or the engine (wherever your conection is) remove it and make sure it is clean and not corroded.

Ackattack · 06-22-2007, 01:36 AM

Hey thanks for the quick reply guys!!!!

Pretty sure that it is indeed the ground cable. I hooked up a jumper cable from the - battery terminal to the back of the engine as a make shift ground cable (class A motorhome....engine inside

) and it fired up no problem!!!! Over and over without a problem.

So tomorrow I'll replace a few ground cables (frame to battery, frame to engine, and probably add a battery to engine for good measure)

Thanks again guys, you may have saved my vacation!

**67 cst swb** · 06-22-2007, 01:38 AM

Whooo-hoo!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Now I can go to bed....

krue · 06-22-2007, 06:56 AM

Glad to hear it worked for you.

Longhorn Man · 06-22-2007, 05:18 PM

run that neg cable to the engine its self... not the frame, or alt bracket. You can probably find an open bolt hole on the head or something. Then run a strap from the engine to the frame.
Starting the engine puts a bigger load than everything else on the RV combined. So that is where you need the amps, and you can have all the amps in the world, but, as you've seen, without a good solid clean route back to the battery, the amps don't exist.

**truckdude239** · 06-22-2007, 05:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Longhorn Man

run that neg cable to the engine its self... not the frame, or alt bracket. You can probably find an open bolt hole on the head or something. Then run a strap from the engine to the frame.
Starting the engine puts a bigger load than everything else on the RV combined. So that is where you need the amps, and you can have all the amps in the world, but, as you've seen, without a good solid clean route back to the battery, the amps don't exist.

Ackattack · 06-22-2007, 05:45 PM

this morning I ran cleaned up the ground cable to the frame, and then added one to the back of the head....starts great now.

06-22-2007, 01:01 AM	#1
Ackattack Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Valley Center KS Posts: 3,525	Won't start....need help ASAP! Ok guys, I need some help and you are all the most knowledgable people I know when it comes to old school chevy engines So I'm going on a camping trip tomorrow in my motorhome. Its an 84 454 with a turbo 400. Its got a quadrajet carb on it. Basically when I hit the start switch sometimes it will crank over, some times it won't. I put a new battery in it, new high torque mini starter, new remote solenoid,and new cables. So everything from the battery to the starter is new. So as long as the starter solenoid gets the switched input it should turn over. Well it doesn't all the time. So like I said, its an 84, so of course it has miles of vacum hoses. Tonight I popped off the entire air cleaner assembly so that just the carb was there. I tried starting it, and it turned over like it was nothing! Of course it didn't start. I messed around with this hose and that and the carb linkage and finally it fired up. I turned the distributor to advance the timing a little so it would run smoothly and it was fine. I tried starting it up a few more times and it did it fine. I let it run for a while and then drove a few feet to its parking spot, now it won't turn over again! I'm thinking it has something to do with the carb, but it seems awfully wierd that the carb could stop the stupid thing from even turning over. But the only carbs I've really messed with is Edelbrocks. I mean I could understand having problems if it was a 13:0:1 454, but this "bad boy" is probably about 8:1. So like I said I need some suggestions on things to look for or check before I go on vacation. Thanks Derek __________________ Project Bruiser: 68 Pro-Touring C-10 5.3L / 4L60E Project Ironhide: 97 GMC Crew Cab 4x4 Cummins SOLD: '69 GMC 1/2T SWB TBI'd: Project No Buck Assembly Manual Index Sign up Thread!!! Factory Service Manual Index

06-22-2007, 01:08 AM	#2
67 cst swb Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Rapid City, SD Posts: 2,281	Re: Won't start....need help ASAP! Check for a loose electrical connection, either at the battery or at the solenoid. Sounds to me like an electrical issue, but not a serious one... The times it won't turn over... Can you jump the terminals on the remote solenoid and it work? But, I'm no expert. Hopefully someone else will jump in here... __________________ My Trucks: 1967 Chevrolet Short Wide Box 327 TH350 9" w/3.90 gears paint will be White - Current Project 1967 Chevrolet Custom LWB 283 TH400 3.73 Posi, no-AC, no-PS, no-PB, bench-seat, small-window - mostly orig driver 1967 Chevrolet CST LWB originally a 327 TH400 3.73 Posi AC PS PB, had Buddy Buckets, Small Window - parts truck 1967 Chevrolet CST LWB, 283 MT 3.73 had Buddy Buckets, Panoramic Window - parts truck 2001 Chevrolet 3500 2WD Crew Cab Dually 8.1L Allison White Last edited by 67 cst swb; 06-22-2007 at 01:09 AM.

06-22-2007, 01:10 AM	#3
Ackattack Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Valley Center KS Posts: 3,525	Re: Won't start....need help ASAP! The battery cables and other electrical connections are all tight. I mean I was having the exact same issues with the stock starter without a remote solenoid. Oh, I also tried to play with the timing to see if that would make it easier to fire up, it didn't really seem to help. __________________ Project Bruiser: 68 Pro-Touring C-10 5.3L / 4L60E Project Ironhide: 97 GMC Crew Cab 4x4 Cummins SOLD: '69 GMC 1/2T SWB TBI'd: Project No Buck Assembly Manual Index Sign up Thread!!! Factory Service Manual Index

06-22-2007, 01:12 AM	#4
Ackattack Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Valley Center KS Posts: 3,525	Re: Won't start....need help ASAP! Oh yeah. It also has some type of vacum operated valve in the passenger side exhaust manifold. I don't know if this thing works or not, but even if it were closed I don't think it would stop it from turning over. __________________ Project Bruiser: 68 Pro-Touring C-10 5.3L / 4L60E Project Ironhide: 97 GMC Crew Cab 4x4 Cummins SOLD: '69 GMC 1/2T SWB TBI'd: Project No Buck Assembly Manual Index Sign up Thread!!! Factory Service Manual Index

06-22-2007, 01:16 AM	#5
67 cst swb Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Rapid City, SD Posts: 2,281	Re: Won't start....need help ASAP! I definately think your issue is electrical... What about the ground wire to the motor?.... clean connection? Solid? That also a NEW cable? __________________ My Trucks: 1967 Chevrolet Short Wide Box 327 TH350 9" w/3.90 gears paint will be White - Current Project 1967 Chevrolet Custom LWB 283 TH400 3.73 Posi, no-AC, no-PS, no-PB, bench-seat, small-window - mostly orig driver 1967 Chevrolet CST LWB originally a 327 TH400 3.73 Posi AC PS PB, had Buddy Buckets, Small Window - parts truck 1967 Chevrolet CST LWB, 283 MT 3.73 had Buddy Buckets, Panoramic Window - parts truck 2001 Chevrolet 3500 2WD Crew Cab Dually 8.1L Allison White Last edited by 67 cst swb; 06-22-2007 at 01:16 AM.

06-22-2007, 01:17 AM	#6
67 cst swb Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Rapid City, SD Posts: 2,281	Re: Won't start....need help ASAP! The times that it does not turn over, Is there an audible "click" when the starter tries to engage or absolutely nothing? Do the dash lights do dim or out? is it the same when it turns over as when it does not? __________________ My Trucks: 1967 Chevrolet Short Wide Box 327 TH350 9" w/3.90 gears paint will be White - Current Project 1967 Chevrolet Custom LWB 283 TH400 3.73 Posi, no-AC, no-PS, no-PB, bench-seat, small-window - mostly orig driver 1967 Chevrolet CST LWB originally a 327 TH400 3.73 Posi AC PS PB, had Buddy Buckets, Small Window - parts truck 1967 Chevrolet CST LWB, 283 MT 3.73 had Buddy Buckets, Panoramic Window - parts truck 2001 Chevrolet 3500 2WD Crew Cab Dually 8.1L Allison White Last edited by 67 cst swb; 06-22-2007 at 01:18 AM.

06-22-2007, 01:21 AM	#7
Ackattack Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Valley Center KS Posts: 3,525	Re: Won't start....need help ASAP! when it doesn't turn over, it actually tries to, maybe turning an 1/8th of a turn in the process before it get's stopped. Its not like a bad solenoid (I've had plenty of issues like that on my 72....so I know it's not that) I'll have to check the ground cable.....didn't check that. __________________ Project Bruiser: 68 Pro-Touring C-10 5.3L / 4L60E Project Ironhide: 97 GMC Crew Cab 4x4 Cummins SOLD: '69 GMC 1/2T SWB TBI'd: Project No Buck Assembly Manual Index Sign up Thread!!! Factory Service Manual Index

06-22-2007, 01:24 AM	#8
krue Designated A-hole! Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: South Mississippi Posts: 36,450	Re: Won't start....need help ASAP! If it won't turn over you have to check a few things...first is battery cables. Good tight, clean connections at the battery and starter/engine. Make sure the cable to the starter isn't grounded to the exhaust manifold (have had that happen to me). Check your ignition switch by checking for 12v at the solenoid when you turn the key to the crank position. You can half-ass check the soleniod by listening to see if it clicks when you hit the key. If it's a solenoid that's on it's way out you can sometimes start it by tapping the solenoid with something when it won't turn over and see if that helps. The only other thing I can think of is taking the starter to a parts store and having them check it. __________________ "If it ain't broke, fix it 'til it is!" Being stupid ain't illegal. We're Still Debt Free Except for the House!!! www.daveramsey.com 70 GMC SWB Stepside project "Green Booger" soon to be 6.0l/4l80e 93 S-10 "Poppaw's Truck"

06-22-2007, 01:26 AM	#9
motopatzo Registered User Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: maple ridge, b.c., canada Posts: 190	Re: Won't start....need help ASAP! when yu say it doesn't "turn over", is there any other sound like clicking, or solenoid engaging or a slow starter speed? I am thinking if you have nothing- .....try and run a jumper wire to the S terminal of the starter to check if it will turn over then. It it does turn over with a jumper, could be bad neutreal safety switch, bad wire to starter or bad connection causing a voltage drop.

06-22-2007, 01:27 AM	#10
67 cst swb Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Rapid City, SD Posts: 2,281	Re: Won't start....need help ASAP! have someone watch everywhere (underhood, underneath at starter) while cranking (or attempting to crank) hopefully, one of those times it doesn't start it will spark, this will show you if there is a poor ground somewhere... Also, if it attempts to start(1/8 turn or so) I definately think it's electrical. My only other thought would be the key switch, but not thinking so.... This may sound funny but,... if it's a tilt steering column, be sure it's in the straight position... I've had them up in the highest up-tilted position and had problems before.... also be sure the shift lever is fully in park (above mentioned Nuetral Safety Switch) __________________ My Trucks: 1967 Chevrolet Short Wide Box 327 TH350 9" w/3.90 gears paint will be White - Current Project 1967 Chevrolet Custom LWB 283 TH400 3.73 Posi, no-AC, no-PS, no-PB, bench-seat, small-window - mostly orig driver 1967 Chevrolet CST LWB originally a 327 TH400 3.73 Posi AC PS PB, had Buddy Buckets, Small Window - parts truck 1967 Chevrolet CST LWB, 283 MT 3.73 had Buddy Buckets, Panoramic Window - parts truck 2001 Chevrolet 3500 2WD Crew Cab Dually 8.1L Allison White Last edited by 67 cst swb; 06-22-2007 at 01:31 AM.

06-22-2007, 01:34 AM	#11
motopatzo Registered User Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: maple ridge, b.c., canada Posts: 190	Re: Won't start....need help ASAP! Ok, it is intermittent, and it tries to turn over. Everything else is replaced. I would look at the ground as well. Even if it is tight at the frame or the engine (wherever your conection is) remove it and make sure it is clean and not corroded.

06-22-2007, 01:36 AM	#12
Ackattack Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Valley Center KS Posts: 3,525	Re: Won't start....need help ASAP! Hey thanks for the quick reply guys!!!! Pretty sure that it is indeed the ground cable. I hooked up a jumper cable from the - battery terminal to the back of the engine as a make shift ground cable (class A motorhome....engine inside ) and it fired up no problem!!!! Over and over without a problem. So tomorrow I'll replace a few ground cables (frame to battery, frame to engine, and probably add a battery to engine for good measure) Thanks again guys, you may have saved my vacation! __________________ Project Bruiser: 68 Pro-Touring C-10 5.3L / 4L60E Project Ironhide: 97 GMC Crew Cab 4x4 Cummins SOLD: '69 GMC 1/2T SWB TBI'd: Project No Buck Assembly Manual Index Sign up Thread!!! Factory Service Manual Index

06-22-2007, 01:38 AM	#13
67 cst swb Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Rapid City, SD Posts: 2,281	Re: Won't start....need help ASAP! Whooo-hoo!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Now I can go to bed.... __________________ My Trucks: 1967 Chevrolet Short Wide Box 327 TH350 9" w/3.90 gears paint will be White - Current Project 1967 Chevrolet Custom LWB 283 TH400 3.73 Posi, no-AC, no-PS, no-PB, bench-seat, small-window - mostly orig driver 1967 Chevrolet CST LWB originally a 327 TH400 3.73 Posi AC PS PB, had Buddy Buckets, Small Window - parts truck 1967 Chevrolet CST LWB, 283 MT 3.73 had Buddy Buckets, Panoramic Window - parts truck 2001 Chevrolet 3500 2WD Crew Cab Dually 8.1L Allison White

06-22-2007, 06:56 AM	#14
krue Designated A-hole! Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: South Mississippi Posts: 36,450	Re: Won't start....need help ASAP! Glad to hear it worked for you. __________________ "If it ain't broke, fix it 'til it is!" Being stupid ain't illegal. We're Still Debt Free Except for the House!!! www.daveramsey.com 70 GMC SWB Stepside project "Green Booger" soon to be 6.0l/4l80e 93 S-10 "Poppaw's Truck"

06-22-2007, 05:18 PM	#15
Longhorn Man its all about the +6 inches Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Hilliard Ohio Posts: 2,693	Re: Won't start....need help ASAP! run that neg cable to the engine its self... not the frame, or alt bracket. You can probably find an open bolt hole on the head or something. Then run a strap from the engine to the frame. Starting the engine puts a bigger load than everything else on the RV combined. So that is where you need the amps, and you can have all the amps in the world, but, as you've seen, without a good solid clean route back to the battery, the amps don't exist.



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06-22-2007, 05:45 PM	#17
Ackattack Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Valley Center KS Posts: 3,525	Re: Won't start....need help ASAP! this morning I ran cleaned up the ground cable to the frame, and then added one to the back of the head....starts great now. __________________ Project Bruiser: 68 Pro-Touring C-10 5.3L / 4L60E Project Ironhide: 97 GMC Crew Cab 4x4 Cummins SOLD: '69 GMC 1/2T SWB TBI'd: Project No Buck Assembly Manual Index Sign up Thread!!! Factory Service Manual Index

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