cast iron heads or aluminum????? - The 1947 - Present Chevrolet & GMC Truck Message Board Network

Mudder · 10-11-2002, 01:14 PM

Looking at Dart heads or the Edlbrock aluminum heads for a driver. Wanting performance and no problems (dependable). Anyone have thoughts? Comments?

68 with 350 TPI · 10-11-2002, 01:44 PM

Nothing wrong with aluminum heads on a street car/truck.

The edelbrock heads have pretty thick decks and they should not warp.

Just think how many cars come with aluminum heads now.

Big69C20 Toy · 10-11-2002, 01:48 PM

Depends a lot on your price range, the aluminum is a bit more costly. I'd say go for the aluminum if you've got the money as you can kick your compression up some (if you're thinking that way). Get some good head studs and aluminum heads and you'd be great on that daily driver i'd think.

*Randy70C-10* · 10-11-2002, 01:55 PM

They weight alot less too!
For a daily driver, I'd use cast iron simply because of the price. Vortec heads seem to be the hot item lately and won't break the bank.

diggin69 · 10-11-2002, 02:16 PM

is it for a big or small block if you go with aluminum, have the block zero decked to gain compresion, also on aluminum make sure the push rods are .100 longer than stock, if you go with edelbrock- use the bolt kit #8550 & for others that have small-small blocks like the 262,265,283,305,307.... the aluminum heads cant be used do to not having a 4" bore unless you go with a cam smaller than .450 lift but there is nothing like the flow you can port & polish & gasket match steel & get to flow as good but who want to do the task, when you can buy them & drop some weight at the same time. are you building for bottom end, mid to low, or just a stump puller let me know I've been known to build some healthy mouses he,he I could help more if I knew what you were going for.

Mudder · 10-11-2002, 02:37 PM

Just got off the phone with a guy from Scogggin Dickey. He's jsut about convinced me to go with the vortecs. Its a small block diggin in a 4x4.

da-burb · 10-11-2002, 04:10 PM

My next engine is going to have the iron Vortec's. I was considering the Edelbrock Performers or the E-tecs. But cost won out.

mikep · 10-11-2002, 05:20 PM

I'm not a big fan of aluminum . Ran the edelbrocks in a BB ford once and had to repair several stripped threads after the engine was torn down to change cams. Cast iron heads do everything aluminum heads do for less money and they dont warp or strip threads as easily plus you dont HAVE to up the compression to get the same power level .

**MikeB** · 10-11-2002, 05:21 PM

The Vortecs flow great, but they need a special intake manifold, late model valve covers and self-aligning rocker arms. The springs are limited to .450" lift (or .480", depending on who you listen to). Scoggin Dickey can help you with all this stuff. My 383 has 180cc Dart Iron Eagles but I can't recommend them over the Vortecs. On my next project I'll probably use the AFR 195s.

crazy longhorn · 10-11-2002, 05:50 PM

Im running Edelbrock rpm's on the longhorn, squeezin close to 10 to 1 on the ratio. I have no complaints, & I think a couple plusses......they will fit any off shelf sb intake, & cam selection is no problem, the springs are good to about .570 lift! The exhuast holes,& the rocker studs are helicoiled right out of the box......the intake bolt holes are not. Good luck.....crazy longhorn

67shortie · 10-11-2002, 08:16 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by mikep
plus you dont HAVE to up the compression to get the same power level .

Exactly, the only reason people should up the compression on aluminum headed engines is to regain combustion thermal efficiency. The aluminum has better heat transfer resulting in lower chamber temps equalling in less overall power. Remember heat equalls energy.
So for you guys opting for the aluminunum heads on your rides, ALL THINGS BEING EQUAL, prepare for less power after install because of this unless you up the compression ratio a point or two. Iorn will win out everytime on this subject.
Now, if the head you intall has better ports, better chamber design, etc. the power will go up in most cases but not because of higher cylinder temps but because of better flow and chamber design.
On a side note, there are coatings available one can put in the combustion chamber to keep the heat in so to speak. It is not in a rattle can, but there are a few companies that offer this service, they will also do pistons, bearings and valves. Kinda cool stuff

RaTTrap 68 · 10-11-2002, 08:52 PM

Not to detract from Mudders post.but i was also wondering the same:
Alum vs iron

How does this the choice differ if building a BBC vs. SBC?

As I will be building a 454 this winter along with a friends 454 of 75-77 vintage.we have come to an impass on of we should go alum or iron/we are wanting a good driver but able to hold its own at the track the 2-3 times we plan on going a month?

Thanks for any advice,and sorry if this is posting over mudders.Thought maybe this would help differ between BBC and SBC -alum vs iron choices?

RaTTrap 68

mikep · 10-11-2002, 09:15 PM

This might just be a matter of economics. Personally I'd have to say if your'e only running on the street then go with a decent set of early open chamber cast iron oval port big block heads. Since youu are talking about going to the track several times a month that is a different story. You probably want to go fast. I'd say go with aftermarket rectangular port heads. I only say that because by the time you buy chevy rectangular port heads, clean them up and have them rebuilt and ported you are into them as much as a decent set of Merlin cast irons or edelbrock aluminum heads. Again I have a preference for cast iron on a daily driver but since you are looking to go fast the aluminum might be more to your liking. For a daily driver I would never reccomend the rectangular port heads. Ive driven big port chevy heads and big port cleveland heads and for daily drivers they make life miserable.

67shortie · 10-11-2002, 11:29 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by RaTTrap 68
Not to detract from Mudders post.but i was also wondering the same:
Alum vs iron

How does this the choice differ if building a BBC vs. SBC?

As I will be building a 454 this winter along with a friends 454 of 75-77 vintage.we have come to an impass on of we should go alum or iron/we are wanting a good driver but able to hold its own at the track the 2-3 times we plan on going a month?

Thanks for any advice,and sorry if this is posting over mudders.Thought maybe this would help differ between BBC and SBC -alum vs iron choices?

RaTTrap 68

Sorry mudder, we are hacking up your post in a major way

I do agree with Mike that rectangular heads are not the way to go with a driver big block. BUT.. I do have to disagree in a friendly way Mike

on your suggestion of using the rectangular aluminum heads for the track. If you are after ET's =quicker 60 foot times and less rpm's on the engine, and less compression, look no further than a set of factory oval port heads. Velosity will be up at lower engine speeds, resulting in torque down low that our heavy trucks need to get moving quickly. Rectangular heads have a very large intake runner that requires lots of air to start working. This means that you would have to run alot of cam, higher stall converter, and stiffer gearing to make work as well as the ovals. And porting them makes it worse on the requirements.
My suggestion, find a set of 781, 049, 290 open chamber oval port IORN heads, have the 2.19/1.88 valves installed, port match the intake to the gasket, and have the short turn radius cleaned up and that's it. Cost will reflect on who you chose to do the work, mind you. But I would not give this work to just anybody, locate an experienced head guy for the port work. I have $700 in my 781's and my Chevelle loves em. But my tires do not, lots of usable power on the street

If you are looing for a good set of aftermarket iorn ovals, check out the "grumpy" line that world products offer. Very close to the large modified ovals that I currently run, nice product.
My two cents

mikep · 10-11-2002, 11:34 PM

I'm just a RPM loving fool :-)

Chevrolet was CRAZY to install those things on production cars.

67shortie · 10-11-2002, 11:48 PM

Hehe, Mike man I am just trying to get to 100 posts so I can get my avitar

I do have to admit, I run my 427 up there sometimes 6000 gets loud and hairy on the big mama

Mudder · 10-12-2002, 01:14 AM

Ive learned more in the last couple of days about heads than I thought I would ever need to know. I have made up my mind what Im going to do. Gonna spend about 1500 but it wont be for just heads.

10-11-2002, 01:14 PM	#1
Mudder Registered User Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: East Central, MO Posts: 11,336	cast iron heads or aluminum????? Looking at Dart heads or the Edlbrock aluminum heads for a driver. Wanting performance and no problems (dependable). Anyone have thoughts? Comments?

10-11-2002, 01:44 PM	#2
68 with 350 TPI Registered User Join Date: May 2002 Location: Wingate NC Posts: 456	Nothing wrong with aluminum heads on a street car/truck. The edelbrock heads have pretty thick decks and they should not warp. Just think how many cars come with aluminum heads now. __________________ Life is good with a 6-71 supercharged 355 in a 72 camaro

10-11-2002, 01:48 PM	#3
Big69C20 Toy Livin' it up. Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Richland, MI Posts: 2,212	Depends a lot on your price range, the aluminum is a bit more costly. I'd say go for the aluminum if you've got the money as you can kick your compression up some (if you're thinking that way). Get some good head studs and aluminum heads and you'd be great on that daily driver i'd think. __________________ -Greg; Sold the 69 C20. It's off to a better home with more love! Now onto the 86 CUCV M1009; K5 blazer with 6.2L diesel, corp 10 bolt axles, Detroit locker in the rear, trutrac front, 3.73 gears, 35" tires.

10-11-2002, 01:55 PM	#4
Randy70C-10 Account Suspended Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Virginia Beach, Va. U.S.A. Posts: 15,320	They weight alot less too! For a daily driver, I'd use cast iron simply because of the price. Vortec heads seem to be the hot item lately and won't break the bank. Last edited by Randy70C-10; 10-11-2002 at 02:02 PM.

10-11-2002, 02:16 PM	#5
diggin69 Southern but in Ohio!!!! Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Eaton,Oh. 45320 Posts: 467	is it for a big or small block if you go with aluminum, have the block zero decked to gain compresion, also on aluminum make sure the push rods are .100 longer than stock, if you go with edelbrock- use the bolt kit #8550 & for others that have small-small blocks like the 262,265,283,305,307.... the aluminum heads cant be used do to not having a 4" bore unless you go with a cam smaller than .450 lift but there is nothing like the flow you can port & polish & gasket match steel & get to flow as good but who want to do the task, when you can buy them & drop some weight at the same time. are you building for bottom end, mid to low, or just a stump puller let me know I've been known to build some healthy mouses he,he I could help more if I knew what you were going for. __________________ 1969 C/10 3/4 ton 4x4 longbed custom, frame made from a 79 1972 custom-10 half/ton longbed 1980 1/2 ton 4x4 all original 350/350/205 with air Eaton,Oh rebelryder@hotmail.com

10-11-2002, 02:37 PM	#6
Mudder Registered User Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: East Central, MO Posts: 11,336	Vortecs Just got off the phone with a guy from Scogggin Dickey. He's jsut about convinced me to go with the vortecs. Its a small block diggin in a 4x4.

10-11-2002, 04:10 PM	#7
da-burb "Ochre Ogre" Join Date: Apr 2000 Location: Springfield, MN Posts: 3,558	My next engine is going to have the iron Vortec's. I was considering the Edelbrock Performers or the E-tecs. But cost won out. __________________ Bowtie Truck Stop Inc. Mid-West GM Truck Restoration Parts Supplier Your Key Parts, Auto Metal Direct, Dynacorn, and Goodmark dealer. like us @ www.facebook.com/BowtieTruckStop 1971 C-10 Suburban (Ochre) 1971 K-10 Suburban (Ochre) 1972 C-10 Suburban (Ochre) 1972 K-20 Suburban (Yellow- that just aint right!) Springfield, Minnesota 56087

10-11-2002, 05:20 PM	#8
mikep Used to have a truck Join Date: May 2002 Location: port orchard WA Posts: 1,552	I'm not a big fan of aluminum . Ran the edelbrocks in a BB ford once and had to repair several stripped threads after the engine was torn down to change cams. Cast iron heads do everything aluminum heads do for less money and they dont warp or strip threads as easily plus you dont HAVE to up the compression to get the same power level . __________________ No truck :-(

10-11-2002, 05:21 PM	#9
MikeB Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: North Texas Posts: 3,597	The Vortecs flow great, but they need a special intake manifold, late model valve covers and self-aligning rocker arms. The springs are limited to .450" lift (or .480", depending on who you listen to). Scoggin Dickey can help you with all this stuff. My 383 has 180cc Dart Iron Eagles but I can't recommend them over the Vortecs. On my next project I'll probably use the AFR 195s. __________________ Mike 1969 C10 LWB -- owned for 35 years. 350/TH350, 3.08 posi, 1st Gen Vintage Air, recent AAW wiring harness, 5-lug conversion, 1985 spindles and brakes. 1982 C10 SWB -- sold 1981 C10 Silverado LWB -- sold, but wish I still had it! 1969 C10 (not the current one) that I bought in the early 1980s. Paid $1200; sold for $1500 a few years later. Just a hint at the appreciation that was coming. Retired as a factory automation products salesman. Worked part-time over the years for an engine builder and a classic car repair shop. Member here for 24 years! This is the very first car/truck Internet forum I joined. I still used a dial-up modem back then!

10-11-2002, 05:50 PM	#10
crazy longhorn Fabricate till you "puke" Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Ill Posts: 9,402	Im running Edelbrock rpm's on the longhorn, squeezin close to 10 to 1 on the ratio. I have no complaints, & I think a couple plusses......they will fit any off shelf sb intake, & cam selection is no problem, the springs are good to about .570 lift! The exhuast holes,& the rocker studs are helicoiled right out of the box......the intake bolt holes are not. Good luck.....crazy longhorn

10-11-2002, 08:52 PM	#12
RaTTrap 68 Registered User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: N Utah Posts: 12	Not to detract from Mudders post.but i was also wondering the same: Alum vs iron How does this the choice differ if building a BBC vs. SBC? As I will be building a 454 this winter along with a friends 454 of 75-77 vintage.we have come to an impass on of we should go alum or iron/we are wanting a good driver but able to hold its own at the track the 2-3 times we plan on going a month? Thanks for any advice,and sorry if this is posting over mudders.Thought maybe this would help differ between BBC and SBC -alum vs iron choices? RaTTrap 68

10-11-2002, 09:15 PM	#13
mikep Used to have a truck Join Date: May 2002 Location: port orchard WA Posts: 1,552	This might just be a matter of economics. Personally I'd have to say if your'e only running on the street then go with a decent set of early open chamber cast iron oval port big block heads. Since youu are talking about going to the track several times a month that is a different story. You probably want to go fast. I'd say go with aftermarket rectangular port heads. I only say that because by the time you buy chevy rectangular port heads, clean them up and have them rebuilt and ported you are into them as much as a decent set of Merlin cast irons or edelbrock aluminum heads. Again I have a preference for cast iron on a daily driver but since you are looking to go fast the aluminum might be more to your liking. For a daily driver I would never reccomend the rectangular port heads. Ive driven big port chevy heads and big port cleveland heads and for daily drivers they make life miserable. __________________ No truck :-(

10-11-2002, 11:34 PM	#15
mikep Used to have a truck Join Date: May 2002 Location: port orchard WA Posts: 1,552	I'm just a RPM loving fool :-) Chevrolet was CRAZY to install those things on production cars. __________________ No truck :-(

10-11-2002, 11:48 PM	#16
67shortie Green club Join Date: May 2002 Location: Central CA Posts: 1,059	Hehe, Mike man I am just trying to get to 100 posts so I can get my avitar I do have to admit, I run my 427 up there sometimes 6000 gets loud and hairy on the big mama __________________ 71 short/fleet ECE 4/6 drop, LQ4/700r4/3.42 gears 70 SS396 Chevelle 427/200-4R/3.73posi 61 Lincoln Continental, black on black Son you are going to drive me to drinkin if you don't stop drivin that hot rod lincoln

10-12-2002, 01:14 AM	#17
Mudder Registered User Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: East Central, MO Posts: 11,336	You guys just go for it! Ive learned more in the last couple of days about heads than I thought I would ever need to know. I have made up my mind what Im going to do. Gonna spend about 1500 but it wont be for just heads.



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