Building your own control arms

[blazntn]

Ok guys, what are you guys using to build your own control arms. What kinda cross shafts? Tubing? Balljoints/Uniballs?

[nwmod39]

tubing i have heard of people using
1" d.o.m. tube. thickness on the wall ???

[Bagged Nissan]

there are various things to make them out of. i was curious myself awhile back and asked a guy who builds arms and spindles from scratch, decently often.. he told me i could easily use seamed tubing at .188 wall, 1.25 OD for uppers and 1.50 OD for lowers, or if i went with DOM, i could easily use 1.25 OD .125 wall for uppers and 1.50 x .125 for lowers and I'd have absolutely no problems.

Since I am jigged for nissan arms and about to build a buddy a set of yota arms with uni balls.. i'm going to be doing my personal arms and his arms out of .125 wall DOM.

[LONGHAIR]

Since I am jigged for nissan arms and about to build a buddy a set of yota arms with uni balls.. i'm going to be doing my personal arms and his arms out of .125 wall DOM.

Man, I would think twice about that. You can do whatever you want to/for yourself.....but building something like that for your buddy is opening yourself up to be sued.

[Bagged Nissan]

Originally Posted by LONGHAIR

Man, I would think twice about that. You can do whatever you want to/for yourself.....but building something like that for your buddy is opening yourself up to be sued.

no its not.. its perfectly fine. look up max and his shop. if he'll use .125 wall on a 4x4 truck he did that is abused 10 fold times more then our trucks ever are, and hasnt had 1 problem at all.. i'd take his word over a lot of people who only build and never actually look at tensile strengths, engineering of the part and how it works and is performs.

the tensile strength of .125 DOM is 70 or 75k psi.. do you see our trucks reaching that? nowhere near it.

[XXL]

Originally Posted by Bagged Nissan

no its not.. its perfectly fine.

I believe LONGHAIR was making a general point about product liability, not about your choice if tubing.

Having said that...

Originally Posted by LONGHAIR

You can do whatever you want to/for yourself.....

I disagree. I've got to be on the road with his work too. Maybe he's an expert welder. But if not...

[PrerunnerRob]

Exactly, engineering safety aspect is usually 4:1. So lets say said part fails at 100psi, engineering would spec it at 400psi fail point. Either way, if you trust your friend, no worries, if you dont have them sign that "for off road only" disclaimer. Have fun guys, and please post pics of said contol arms when finished!

[LONGHAIR]

You were right about the call on product liability.

I disagree. I've got to be on the road with his work too. Maybe he's an expert welder. But if not...

I take your point, but....in that kind of extreme, you would have to worry about every car out there that has had it's owner change a flat tire.


In this situation though, you may belive that your friend will not sue you, should something happen........and you may be right, if he is the only one effected. But what if he hits someone else? He will have to pass the buck. Then you have how many people involved?

[Bagged Nissan]

Originally Posted by LONGHAIR

You were right about the call on product liability.



I take your point, but....in that kind of extreme, you would have to worry about every car out there that has had it's owner change a flat tire.


In this situation though, you may belive that your friend will not sue you, should something happen........and you may be right, if he is the only one effected. But what if he hits someone else? He will have to pass the buck. Then you have how many people involved?

I wont be running production on my arms, but they will be sold on a 'hey build me a set of arms' basis.. i've built arms in the past on the same material, they're going just fine.

I have no worries about being sued. Like I said, other sets of arms are doing just fine. Cant sue me over a product that I know wont fail. You can live swearing you need .250 wall arms, that is completely fine. That's nothing but added up dead weight. Gotta remember, stock arms are only stamped .120, .125 tubing is quite a bit stronger then stamped .120. I dont see factories failing.

[Bagged Nissan]

Originally Posted by XXL

I believe LONGHAIR was making a general point about product liability, not about your choice if tubing.

Having said that...



I disagree. I've got to be on the road with his work too. Maybe he's an expert welder. But if not...

I am d1.1 and d1.6 certified welder. I repair public trans buses at a company that use to build them. We get contracts from all over the northeast area. Right now we are rebuilding engine splines b/c the maker of the MTA buses have cracked and broke the entire back section, some of the bag brackets, etc.

So I am perfectly fine with my welding abilities if the DOT is too.

Here are some random welds on random things throughout the shop, if it makes any difference to debate on the tube not failing, but my welds.

[Shane]

i'd like to see some of those scratch built spindles that were referred to earlier.

post pics.

[XXL]

Originally Posted by LONGHAIR

I take your point, but....in that kind of extreme, you would have to worry about every car out there that has had it's owner change a flat tire.

You've never met my neighbor. I don't ride with him (or behind him).

[XXL]

Originally Posted by Bagged Nissan

I am d1.1 and d1.6 certified welder. I repair public trans buses...

Thanks for the paper certifications... that's great that you say you can weld so well. Most people can't (me included)... and so "some guy" on a message board talking about making critical steering and suspension components SHOULD cause a few alarms. That you can do this is great, but Billy Ed Bubba Ray gets to read how HE can do it too... and so he fires up his buddy's flux core welder and starts to makin'.

One other thing... no amount of welding certifications will get that ball joint aligned so the front end isn't bump steering into ditches. Again, maybe you've got lots of experience with steering geometry... but Billy Ed Bubba Ray does not... but he's going to eyeball it anyway. Those are the cars I have to drive to work with. I'm not paranoid, nor should anyone else be. But a little concerned about the cars around you? Yes.

[abadsvt]

I thought about building my own set of control arms and maybe someday i will. I think you should give it a try. You sound like you have the welding abilities and it sounds like you have the know how. Just one thing like XXL said. You might want to get a bumpsteer gauge to check and see if you affected the amount of bumpsteer because when you build the control arms if it changes the stock spindel arc at all even a little bit you will change the spindel arc which inturn will increase your bumpsteer because now you tie rod arc and your spindle arc are not the same so the steering will be jolted to one side or the other.. That could be a scary thing. I have done tons of research on bumpsteer because i wanted to educate myself as much as possible. Now i am just trying to offer my point of view. You might be very knowledgable about steering suspension and could give me a few pointers (Pointers are good!!) but if not you should definately think things through. Anyways good luck and make sure you take pics!!!!!!!!!

Josh

[JayG]

UuuuuH, nice welds!

[valleycustom]

For my arms I use 1 1/8" DOM .250 wall.

[blazntn]

What do you guys use for cross-shafts and ball joint mounts. I was also thinking about uniballs

[Ackattack]

I made control arms for my jeep grand cherokee rock crawler. I used 2" .250" wall DOM tubing. I also used Johnny Joints for the frame mount, and stock style rubber bushings for the axle mounts. It worked extremely well, with tons of articulation....if my shocks were longer it would have scored well over 1000 on the RTI ramp...but only a 971 since I had too short or shocks. They were that big of tubing, not for driving loads, but for impact loads of landing on rocks and other obstacles.

[Bagged Nissan]

Originally Posted by Shane

i'd like to see some of those scratch built spindles that were referred to earlier.

post pics.

I will find you some pics in a bit when I get back from some errands. The guy I was talking about has made 3" drop spindles for a tundra or a titan (i forget which needed em) from scratch.. the yota spindle he builds to eliminate bumpsteer on 20's, uses the factory center section.

[Bagged Nissan]

Originally Posted by blazntn

What do you guys use for cross-shafts and ball joint mounts. I was also thinking about uniballs

stock. you build your mounting points to the spec of your stock arm, this way a stock style control arm bushing fits right in, thus allowing you to press your stock shafts back into place. Ball joint, I use moog or trw, both are lifetime guarantee, same with my control arm bushings, moog or trw.

The uniballs are great, I like using them, but only effective with a misalignment spacer. (I have seen ppl try to use a 1" bolt with a 1" uniball and ***** it gets no movement)

As for the person who asked about bump steer.. the problem with the bump steer lies within the design of the spindle, due to steering mounting point. it goes deeper then I even possibly understand. If I need info on a yota, i go straight to max. as for bump steering all over the road. It doesnt bump steer that bad. It does have some, yes.. but it feels like driving a focus in the wind on the highway.. when you hit bumps, you feel it. Its a problem he's aware of and says he's fine with it. So he'll get his arms. <-- this paragraph was wrote thinking the people who mentioned bump steer, knowing knew that yota's do have bump steer when on 20's.. as for my arms causing bump steer, they will no. they are jigged off stock mounting points. so the yota arms i will be building, will cause the truck the same bump steer as stockers would on 20's.. he knows to mount them in stock location just using tabs instead of the crossshaft.. that lies on him and he is a smart dude.. and i'm only an hr away to go help if needed

[Bagged Nissan]

here is acouple pics of a titan spindle that max built. cost at 1250 for the pair.





and here are acouple for a yota be built.





This is a f150 desert runner that got built at his shop.. and this truck is no 'all show no go' truck.

[Shane]

$1,250 for welded cast ... no thanks

[Bagged Nissan]

Originally Posted by Shane

$1,250 for welded cast ... no thanks

you can weld cast if you know how to weld cast and it will last the life of whatever its on. there are also different kinds of cast. the only spindles in that list that are cast, is the center sections of the yota's.. the rest are made from scratch with various metals from tubing to sheet.

you can hate all you want, i'll email max this thread and let him come thump ya with his knowledge and why your comment about him welding to cast means nothing..

you also have to realize why he makes the yota spindles, I dont expect you to considering this site doesnt deal with that stuff.. there is a lot more to the custom world then bolting on a pair of mcgaughty spindles when you want to fix problems that some vehicles have.

[Shane]

Originally Posted by Bagged Nissan

you can hate all you want, i'll email max this thread and let him come thump ya with his knowledge and why your comment about him welding to cast means nothing..

hate? who's hating? I just said I wouldn't be interested in welded cast spindles. I wouldn't be interested in welded cast spindles at ANY price.

Never did I say anything derogatory concerning his ability to weld, so I am kinda confused on where you took anything I said as "hating"

geesh ... you kid's need to learn to lighten up and not be so defensive ...

[PBFAB.COM]

Max does some nice work!

I plan on building a Trophy Truck before I die.