454 Motor Mystry

[6600DURAMAX]

Bought the truck over a year ago and was told it was a 468 (bored 454) the current owner didnt know much more that that.
Found out by pulling the vavle covers early on that it has a set of Mid-Lift Roller Rockers along with a roller cam and lifter....... was pretty excited about that. Obviously could pull the pan without pulling the motor and everything was in to good of shape to do that................unitl now

Well below are some pics of what I found today.

MY QUESTIONS ARE AS FOLLOWS:

1. Is this a 454 or is it a 496 (probably dreaming or wishful thinking but follow me on this)

2.. I know they are H beam rods but I cannot find any part numbers to determine the length, from the center pin to the center of the cap they measure around 6 3/8'' (kind of hard to get an exact measurement) Why isn't there a part number? Is there a correct way to measure the length while in the block??

3. Crank?? Obviously an aftermarket but again can find no part numbers. Is it a 4'' stroke or a 4.25 stoke? How in the world can I tell without pulling the heads? Look how close the crankshaft is to the block? Can I tell if the crank is cast or forged by looking at the flywheel end?

4. The flywheel did not have a weight on it??? Should have for an externally balbnced 454. Maybe it is a forged crank that is internally balanced (probably wishful thinking again.


Help me out here guys this is driving me crazy.

Oh ya Bad news of today was the MSD distributor gear has 4 or 5 teeth that have worn to a knife like point What causes this?

MSD looks like it is corroded beyond belief, dont know how it even ran? What causes this?

And the las tbit of bad news/good news is the oil pump pickup was broke of and bairly hanging on?

I know this is long post but any help would be appriciated

[DMARCUM123]

be hard to tell the crank are sometimes mark on the end where the timing gear is and if you can see the bottom ring on the piston(oil ring ) and the wrist pin is in the oil ring part then i would say it is a 425 stroke they move the wrist up on the piston to aloud for the stroke

[spinning wheels]

Could this be a marine engine?

From the dist, it seems like its been in water.

More wishful thinking..... Maybe its a marine crate engine like a 502?

['68OrangeSunshine]

Definately, you need to R+R the distributor. Hi-perf parts venders sell bronze distributor replacement gears. The idea being it's cheaper to change out the bronze gear than the mating gears on the cam. The bronze will give under extreme torque.
If you get another MSD distributor the same model as the corroded one -- you might be able to salvage the small internal parts as spares. I prefer Mallory, myself, but that's a personal thing maybe.
Nice lookin' mill, otherwise.
Perhaps it was a marine engine -- in one of those flat-bottom speedboats that flip over at 200 -250 MPH. Yeah, that's it -- and the oil pickup sheared off when the hull slapped back down on the water hard.

[BossHogg69]

You may be able to look at the parting lines on the crank throws, a wide parting line usually means a forged crank, a thin line is found on cast cranks.

[6600DURAMAX]

I did run the block numbers and it definatley started out as a standard 454 so no 502 here. I agree that the dist. looks like it has been exposed to wated but the motor was built in 2003 (stamped on the pas. head) and from talking to the previous owner the timeline works out that it was put directly in the truck.

As far as the parting lines on the crank I am not for sure what that means?

I figured someone might have built a 496 stoker and would recognize some of the parts?

What causes the dist. gear to wea like that??

thanks

[1968SWBBigBlock]

The roller camshaft gear and the gear on the Dist on not compatible with each other - very common on roller cam installations - you need to put a bronze gear onto the MSD and that will correct your problem, I would also run a tooth pattern check to make sure the gears are meshing correctly - the mesh can change depending upon the tolerances from the block, heads, intake if they have been milled down

[67shortie]

You might have to pull a head and get a part number off of one of the pistons...just to be sure.

But definately aftermarket rods/crank you have there

[PanelDeland]

I'm not real familiar with big block internals but if it was a small block,I would say that the block has been clearanced.It looks like it's been relieved to provide room for the rods.Look right next to the pan rail at the notches.I don't recall seeing those on a big block but like I said I'm not very familiar with them.

[6600DURAMAX]

thanks Panel, that is the kind of knowledge I was hoping some people would share. I really dont want to pull the heads becasue frankly I dont want to have to adjust the vavles (shounds rediculous but I have always ran into trouble with vavle adjustment)

I can check the pan rail of a standard block later in the week when I get a chance to run down to the shop unless anyone else has a 454 block and can provide some insight

thanks guys

[Green Machine]

On the fist pic, what is that on the front of the crank where the lower timing gear goes ? Just does not look like a regular timing chain from this angle. Gear drive maybe ?

[6600DURAMAX]

I will pull the timing chain cover tonight or tomorrow night but it should just have a normal gear drive setup

[truckdude239]

suppose to use bronze gears for the dis with a roller cam

[ckhd]

It's hard to answer your questions from the pics.

To determine exactly what it is would require taking measurements (and removing the heads). However, from what I see in the pics, I do believe that it is an aftermarket forged crank. My reasons: doesn't have a casting line, and doesn't have the GM wide forged line, also, who would put a mains stud kit and those expensive H-connecting rods in without putting in a forged crank?

Whoever built it spent some money on it, so who knows what it really is without measuring?

[6600DURAMAX]

Well did some more investigating last night and was able to find some numbers on the front of the crank. They are DG3-454D............ When I put these into Google search I come up with a 4340 Forged Crankshaft with a 4.5'' stroke I am still not 100% sure because it looks like on there website they show there name above the number and, although very hard to see up in there, I do not see RPM anywhere on the crank. Could be something they just started doing recently also????? I will call them today and get there input.

RODS??? - They have numbers on the bottom of them but I cannaot get them to cross reference against anything. Each rod has a unique number.
8913S, 9023S, 8664S............ Any idea guys

Looks like it could be a 500+ cu in motor, which would mean the 427 heads taht are curently on there are the reason it doesnt act like it...... Or it could be that nasty distributor

[Prostreet 72]

Hey there.

The inside of that engine is identical to mine.

Eagle Rods with ARP cap bolts
Steel Crank
Diamond Stripper windage tray/screen
ARP main stud kit

You have a nice piece there. Don't be affraid of the valves. It is simple to deal with. I can teach you on line how to work with them.

I ran mine in a drag boat for years before putting it in my Prostreet truck. If you have solid roller lifters, setting the lash is simple. Contrary to popular belief, you do not have to relash the valves every time you use the thing. I go thru mine maybe twice a season if that now that it is on the street. If the cam is a 730+ lift, you may have to do a bit more. My cam is a 680 lift with a 272/282 dur @ 50. I am also at 13.0 to 1 compression. I have no problems with it.My engine is now going on 10 years of service with the same solid roller cam.

You will have some preventative maintence chores with it, but thats about it. Tell me about the rest of the engine. Heads, intake, carb, etc. I would like to help you out.

[6600DURAMAX]

Thanks ProStreet I can use all the help, Are you running the same crank? Only reason I am wondering is I would just like to know that it is a 4.5'' stroke before my head get to big . Like I said before the numbers are clear as day but it just doesnt have the RPM on it??

I am not for sure what cam is in it, I still have not pulled the timing chain cover as my pulley is at the shop. I wonder if the cam will have numbers stamped into the end??? I know for sure it is a roller cam with roller lifters, not sure if it a solid roller or not. Not really for sure how to tell either to be truthfull.

The top end has a set of 427 heads, I will write down the numbers next time I pull the valve covers, with MidLift roller rockers and a Edelbrock Victor Jr. ovavl port intake. I am planning on pulling the intake and timing chain cover this weekend for sure if not sooner.

Sounds like if it really is a 4.5'' stroke I need some new heads that will FLOW !!!!!!

The motor ran decent under the thought it was just a 468, but it did not run like a 500+ motor.......... Could have been that nasty dizzy?

[Prostreet 72]

If you send me an E-mail address, I'll send you a bore and stroke calculator. This will allow you to figure out what you have there.

[6600DURAMAX]

Talked to the guys at RPM yesterday and they say it is their crank sold under a different vendor since it did not have the RPM logo. GREAT Right???? WELL last night I just couldn't leave it alone that it still probably was to good to be true. So I attempeted to measure the stroke for myself without pulling the head. I did this by measuring how far the bottom of the piston shirt moved in the cylinder. I think this should give me the stroke CORRECT??? Well I came up with 4'' WTF ??? Looks like I just have a high dollar forged stock stroke cranks So I guess there are cranks out there with the same number as the RPM cranks that are NOT 4.5'' stroke?

I am really bummed but shouldn't have expected more than that I guess?

someone let me know if they think the way I measured was incorrect, maybe that will shine some light onto this day.

[Prostreet 72]

Hey don't be to upset. Regardless of wether or not it comes up to be a 500+ci engine, you have a very nice piece there. You can lean on that ***** and not worry about it.

If you really want to do a downtown job without removing the cyl. heads, you need to do a volumetric measurement of the cylinders. This will help you determine the displacement.

If it were me, I would probably pull it down and go thru it. You have it out of the truck, and torn down this far, so why not make sure everything is good before you put it back in? For sure I would replace the oil pump with an HV55 high volume pump. Cheap insurance. I always replace the oil pump when the engine is out.

We can talk more later....................