If General Motors goes away.

[MacAttack]

Not likely - the corporation may change from what we’re used to seeing and many hundreds of dealers may cease to exist across the county, but how big of an impact will these changes really have on us - the folks that do actual wrenching?

Will there eventually be spare parts issues and if your daily driver is a later model vehicle - will a hurting company effect your warranty repairs?

I ask this because if this recession gets really ugly - how is our type of folk going to fair differently from Joe Q. Public, barely able to handle oil and tire maintenance?

Mac.

[jason65]

Our type, meaning old truck guys?

[MacAttack]

Originally Posted by jason65

Our type, meaning old truck guys?

Yeah - people that actually understand what's happening under the hood, when things are good and can actually tell when they're going bad. You know, about as far from the "On Star says you need to take your Silverado in for its tire rotation" crowd as it's possible to get?

[kizer]

Well if GM goes out of business instead of walking into GM or buying parts from a catalog I'll just end up buying the same parts over the Toyota counter or through a catalog.

I mean if it was that bad somebody would run with it for a while until they realize that GM is so far in the hole that they sell off parts and equipment for a profit.

Yeah I know I sound a bit harsh, but if you run a business that bad your bound to run it into the ground evetually.

[MacAttack]

Originally Posted by kizer

Yeah I know I sound a bit harsh, but if you run a business that bad your bound to run it into the ground evetually.

Yeah - my concern is the crate motors, but I guess there are many companies getting into that now, like Edelbrock and the like. And if push comes to shove I’m sure that virtually everything can be bought from another source - if need be.

I think we’re in for a major culture change - nationally - if GM ceases to exist completely: "As General Motors Goes, So Goes the Nation" used to mean something (at least when I was a kid). I think that time is coming to an end.

[six5]

I am not to worried about union auto workers getting 70 dollars an hour making inferior cars and trucks. If they where not here tomorrow it would not effect my family. Other than old hot rods, I don't buy Chevy's, Ford's or Dodge's. I do own a old 94 Dodge work truck. But I would never buy a new ride from the big USA 3. They all make junk in my book.

[raggedjim]

It's not just the big 3, I wish it was that simplistic. It's also all the tier suppliers and special machine builders... People who aren't familiar with manufacturing don't understand how far reaching this would be.

Rg

[six5]

Roger that is good point. It is much, much more than just the big 3 making inferior parts..

[protrash64]

I think its sad. I have always owned Chevy's. I like all American cars, but was most familiar with Chevy/GM. Even most people think that not owning American doesnt matter; I think it still does.

Still, it wasnt enough to just sell in America, or North America...these companies engineered their own leverage and exit from America, along with many others, and now we are left to compete with 3rd world labor. Such an ironic paradox.

[Rogue]

Won't affect me, my newest vehicle is a 1993.
My newest Big 3 vehicle is a 1964.
I was done with New Cars when I bought a total POS in 1985.
I don't have that "need a new car/ look what I drive" syndrome.

My brother on the other hand just bought 2 new cars this week! :rolli:

[protrash64]

Im with you Rogue.....I have my '99 Blazer, but it would be history if it was possible at this time. I'd get another old one for DD duties.

[MacAttack]

Originally Posted by raggedjim

It's also all the tier suppliers and special machine builders...

Nail on head, from my perspective.

25 to 1, maybe, on the overall employment 'out there in America' for every UAW position - when you consider jobs like tool steel makers, railroad personnel, tire makers, and on and on..........

[rayce08]

GM isnt going anywhere , the goverment will make sure of that , dont look at GM as just a car builder , they are 4% of the GNP all by there selves , the company keeps hundreds of suppliers in buisness , the same ones that supply ford , toyota , and so on . a credit payment default to suppliers would be very bad and the goverment knows this , and i havent even metioned the national security issues , they have many defense contracts . they are also the biggest invester/developer of lithium ion batterys . it is cheaper to give GM 50 billion to save there a-- then to let them fail and cost 100-200 billion in the long run plus lose the technology and jobs . like it or not , its gonna cost money , so they just need to be smart about how they do it .

[MacAttack]

I don’t care for the government simply having the task of doling out money, over and over, without any reforms in the UAW wage and benefit issue.

It is true that the union negotiated - in good faith - what their members enjoy today as compensation, but it is also true that Japanese car makers have come to our real estate, set up plants and employed folks to make a quality product at a much more realistic cost, and these Americans are glad to have the work.

My gut tells me that at least allowing GM to go into bankruptcy, therefore allowing a federal judge to negate the present UAW contract, redress the money issue into something more realistic for today’s reality - might be a better way to go, rather than having the corporate executives coming hat in hand to DC every six months or so.

Very strong medicine - but I believe necessary.

[Corts60]

I don't feel bad for them. I have never owned anything but Chevy's (and a Tundra once) but they did this to themselves. Over the last 30 years all they've thought about is how to make more bang for their buck and screw quality. Think about 50 years ago when cars had beautiful fabric, just to go around the weatherstripping!

They've lost their touch long ago and also they've lost the American style. Look at all the new cars: I couldn't tell a Chevy Malibu apart from a Toyota Camry now.

My newest and daily driver is my 1980 Chevy Scottsdale 4x4. It is possibly the last great looking American truck and all I'll have to do is take care of it and maybe change the engine out every ten years and it will last forever! That's one more Prius every year that doesn't have to be made because my truck is still on the road.

And then there are the people that say, "but it pollutes!". Well I bet the emissions that come out of my tailpipe every year are less than the by- product that come from crushing an old car or manufacturing a new one in the same time period.

Also, I'm curious as to what kind of waste is going to be created from all these battery operated cars when the battery pack is no longer any good in 5 years and has to be replaced?

Sorry for getting all worked up....

[MacAttack]

Yesterday GM's CEO (Rick Wagoner) said his corporation would end up being liquidated if they have to go into Chapter 11.

General Motors Corp. has received $13.4 billion in federal loans and is seeking another $16.6 billion. The company faces a March 31 deadline to finish its viability plan and show the government it's worthy of the money.

[jason65]

It's worthy if they repop the 65.

[MacAttack]

Originally Posted by jason65

It's worthy if they repop the 65.

Word.

Mac.

[oldiron]

If you don't mind I'm going to move this over to the General Discussion forum for all to see.

[special-K]

Originally Posted by kizer

Yeah I know I sound a bit harsh, but if you run a business that bad your bound to run it into the ground evetually.

What myth are you following?Didn`t you know the whole financial world is upside down and you need to feel you`ll have a job to make payments for 6 years "if" the bank will approve your loan under much stricter qualifications than just a couple years ago?Did you know if you had a business and people stopped buying that product you`d go out of business,too?Did you know it`s not mis-management where your product isn`t selling due to things outside of your control?GM is also involved in home mortgages,reality,and auto financing.Do we know how all the defaulted loans have impacted these corporations?Or,the fact that they only make money when people use thier services?
Do you people with this mismanaged theory know that Toyota is losing big money,too?If the myth was reversed,so would be the results.Check all the facts.Does Toyota sell cars at a much more reasonable cost than GM.Hmmm...news to me.Aren`t cars built with the competeion in mind with "comparable" being the key word?GM doesn`t use beautiful fabric on weatherstrip anymore.Is there a maker who does?I think alot of things have changed over the last 40 years.It seems to me all the makers are pretty much in unison with build methods and materials.They all mimmick one another.They all do the same market surveys.They keep so close in comparison that the differences are about none,more now than ever before.Heck,1/2 the cars out there seem like they`re some sort of joint venture between both companies.GM had the most plants listed in the top-10 most effecient US auto plants?GM has taken larger strides towards alternate fuels and reducing consumption than any other maker.GM has always gotten the most per power displacement compared to it`s competition,as well as economy.The Japanese companies have added larger cars with bigger motors in contrast.M has been experimenting with electric cars since before most of us were born...before the oil embargo in`73,that`s or sure.
Parts will always be available.There`s a little old thing called the aftermarket that would love to own the whole market on GM replacement parts.
Anyone who thinks GM going under will have no effect on them is highly uninformed.Don`t let the feeling we have for unions or employees or how much we like the new stuff make the decision to not care.America needs to keep GM,don`t fool yourselves.I have no plans to buy anything new.I don`t like anyone`s new truck.If one was warranted I`d buy it for the best drivetrain between the three US trucks available at the time.I think union workers are on an unrealistic pay scale.They`d have a hard time making it in the real world.But,none of this makes me want to see an American institution fall to the wayside,as well as an insane amount of jobless flooding into an already flooded jobless ocean.I may not agree with what goes on up top or how much someone gets paid,but that doesn`t make me want to punish them by wishing the company went under leaving an unimaginable amount of jobless families.
I just think changes are in order with how all mega corporations manage themselves.Because at some point,thier business becomes a public concern.Especially when they`re borrowing "our" money.

[70GMCer]

Originally Posted by MacAttack

Yesterday GM's CEO (Rick Wagoner) said his corporation would end up being liquidated if they have to go into Chapter 11.

General Motors Corp. has received $13.4 billion in federal loans and is seeking another $16.6 billion. The company faces a March 31 deadline to finish its viability plan and show the government it's worthy of the money.

and 16.5 billion will go towards paychecks......

[aboz]

If General Motors goes under it's there own damn fault. But it's not likely that the infrastructure will collapse. I'm sure there are plenty of smart, savy auto companies that would take over and build a better product. Even if a company from Japan, China or even Korea took over they would be smart enough to keep the name the same and put American faces at the forefront. Think of it...what a great way to pay back China the trillions of dollars we owe them! As far as the unions go...screw them! Who ever said that a company of any size had to provide anything to their employees but a safe, clean work environment? Don't like your pay? Got no benefits? Get a better job jackass! My mother worked for GMAC for over 20 years and the best thing she ever got was employee pricing on a new car. Now any jobless fool off the street can get that. Businesses open for one reason...to make as much money as possible, not to do what's right by their workers. The byproduct of that business model is to expand and in doing so it creates more jobs. Why do we as Americans think that we should be constantly rewarded for performing our jobs at 100%? Isn't that what one is hired to do in the first place?

[big_al_71]

All it takes is poor management and development to make any business go under. General Motors has managed just to do that. Very poor descision making in upper management. If they go away no big deal because all the other manufacturers that are in a much better financial situation will pick up the market shares. The aftermarket vendors will capitalize and you will still be able to get parts.

[Mudder]

US union autoworkers actually make less or nearly the same as Toyota workers here in the US. My hourly rate was right at 28.00 bucks an hour. Have you all checked out what union laborers make?

If everyone would think and listen, it was the gas prices that messed everything up. When the gas prices went way up the bottom fell out from under everything. I told some coworkers on night back when we were working 2 shifts and over time that if the gas prices stayed as high as they were that the econmy would be destroyed. Two years later that plant is closed and the truck plant next door is only working 1 shift.

[raggedjim]

I know it's frustrating to see the kind of compensation, bonuses and perks the ceo's get, and we could argue about unions till the cows come home, but IF GM goes under then the bad economic times will just be starting.

I don't want to see GM (or Chrysler or F@rd) go under. I hate to see my company's competitors go under, and I have seen that enough to know that it's guys like us that suffer. If GM goes under those ceo's will be just fine... but we will struggle.

Rg