Summit heads what are thes comparable to?

[tranz am]

Im thinking about buying these heads for use with an 87 TPI fuel injection set up. But before I do I want some opinions. I did some research already and found that these heads are actually made by Brodix IK's. But the question is how well do they perform?
Um running a gen I 350 with flat top pistons.



http://store.summitracing.com/partde...5&autoview=sku

[monte0185]

They would work good for a TPI setup. I'm going with the 210cc ones from jegs. Little bit pricier but their for a built 383. Or at least will be anyway.

[tranz am]

Im thinking on stroking mine too actually.
210cc intake runners, man those are a lot bigger then these summit ones.
How much were your heads? I bet they arnt for 87+ intakes are they?

Originally Posted by monte0185

They would work good for a TPI setup. I'm going with the 210cc ones from jegs. Little bit pricier but their for a built 383. Or at least will be anyway.

[monte0185]

Heres a link. I havent ordered them yet but they are the ones im going with. Their the 215cc ones. I was mistaken. They are the best for the money that i have found. I already have all my block work done. I started with a 99 model vortec and added 6" h-beam rods and a forged crank. I havent ordered my pistons yet cause im toying with the idea of running dual turbo's. If i do ill be running about 8.5-1 pistons if not ill be running about 10.5-1 pistons and a bottle. Everyone i have talked to said you cant hardly build an engine that the 215cc runners will not handle.

http://www.jegs.com/i/JEGS/555/51423/10002/-1

[tranz am]

looks great but I wonder if it would hinder low rpm power being so large? will the TPI manifold even bolt up to it? You said vortech heads. do they still retain the off set center bolt holes for the intake?

[monte0185]

Vortec is just the block. Its the same as a standard block other than it has a one piece rear main and its a factory roller motor. These heads will fit a TPI manifold if you drill out the center 4 holes to match the standard head configuration. But to be honest if you looking into building horsepower your gonna be dissapointed with TPI. You want to go up a couple years and use an lt1 style injection if your looking to build horsepower. TPI is great for an everyday driver but not for a horsepower application.

[tranz am]

are you talking about drilling out the manifold holes or the heads?

As far as TPI not creating hp, from what Ive read on it, it seams as if good hp can be produced if the right combo of parts are used like better flowing heads, larger intake runners, bigger fuel injectors and a larger throttle body. I know that stock equipment is limiting.

Originally Posted by monte0185

Vortec is just the block. Its the same as a standard block other than it has a one piece rear main and its a factory roller motor. These heads will fit a TPI manifold if you drill out the center 4 holes to match the standard head configuration. But to be honest if you looking into building horsepower your gonna be dissapointed with TPI. You want to go up a couple years and use an lt1 style injection if your looking to build horsepower. TPI is great for an everyday driver but not for a horsepower application.

[monte0185]

Drilling out the manifold. The 4 center bolts are at a different angles on th later ones as im sure you probably know. Its an easy fix. The problem your going to run into is not so much the hardware its the computer. To make better power you need to use the MAF system in stead of the MAP system. they are easier to tune for higher HP systems but even then its only tunable to so much. I ran one of these awhile back in an 86 grand prix with a built 400 and it was great for low end torque and throttle response but tops out about 4500 rpm. Great for a mild street motor but not so much when your setup for running 6000 rpm. Now remember this is just my findings. Dont let me sway you one way or another. you may have better luck than i did and may know someone better at programming. Besides If you have it I say use it!! Even if its to find out you dont like it at least you can say yeah been there done that got the whistle to prove it!!

[tranz am]

Nice, So I just have to elongate the manifold holes then, Great! Thats what I was hopping to hear. that broadens up my horizon with a verity of heads then.
So you say the vortech style heads are where its at then? so thats what? 92 + up? whats the main difference with vortec heads rather than an aftermarket set of aluminum heads say eddelbrocks. are they equal? sorry if im a little uneducated on this, never looked into a pair of heads.

[monte0185]

Aftermarket heads are gonna be better than stock ones but the L98 vortec heads are some of the best Stock ones out right now. Unless of course you want to go to the new style blocks and heads. Which you can do fairly cheap nowadays. Im gonna put some l98 heads on my 307 mainly cause i have them laying around and because the stock tiny valved original ones suck!! My 383 however is getting the monster jegs heads. The problem with the l98 vortec heads is they require a differnt style intake cause of the bolt pattern. If you check out my build thread for my 72 youll see a couple pictures of mine.

[smoky02]

Just to clarify. Or maybe I'm confused and someone call straighten me out. Vortec isn't the block it's the heads. A vortec motor (L31) is a factory roller block with the vortec heads on the motor. And like Monte said, they are some of the best heads that chevy made. And if you want real HP, check out the fast burn. They are an aluminum setup of the vortec heads with more cam clearance. And edelbrock does make a vortec substitute head that is aluminum and I'm thinking of picking a set up for my truck so i can run a larger cam, but the problem that I'm running into is the TPI won't support my cam is what I'm being told. Even with the upgraded rails and runners.

[tranz am]

there is a book out there called the "chevy tpi fuel injection swappers guide" that goes into great detail about custom aftermarket tpi stuff to get higher hp and or flow out of a tpi system. A reburned chip should solve the problem.


here is a set of large intake runners for example

Originally Posted by smoky02

Just to clarify. Or maybe I'm confused and someone call straighten me out. Vortec isn't the block it's the heads. A vortec motor (L31) is a factory roller block with the vortec heads on the motor. And like Monte said, they are some of the best heads that chevy made. And if you want real HP, check out the fast burn. They are an aluminum setup of the vortec heads with more cam clearance. And edelbrock does make a vortec substitute head that is aluminum and I'm thinking of picking a set up for my truck so i can run a larger cam, but the problem that I'm running into is the TPI won't support my cam is what I'm being told. Even with the upgraded rails and runners.

[tranz am]

so if i ended up getting a set of vortech heads what manifold could I run on them then? So is the Vortech head gen II then? If it has a different manifold bolt pattern what can be done as far as making a tpi work with them. Is the Vortech design considered LT1?

Originally Posted by monte0185

Aftermarket heads are gonna be better than stock ones but the L98 vortec heads are some of the best Stock ones out right now. Unless of course you want to go to the new style blocks and heads. Which you can do fairly cheap nowadays. Im gonna put some l98 heads on my 307 mainly cause i have them laying around and because the stock tiny valved original ones suck!! My 383 however is getting the monster jegs heads. The problem with the l98 vortec heads is they require a differnt style intake cause of the bolt pattern. If you check out my build thread for my 72 youll see a couple pictures of mine.

[smoky02]

The vortec and the LT1's are very similar, but the LT1's water flow is the opposite of the vortec. And if you use the vortec heads you have to get a converter plate (edelbrock) sells it. And I have been told that the vortec heads actually open the higher RPM's up since the reason the original TPI's fall off is due to the restrictive heads.

[monte0185]

Originally Posted by smoky02

Just to clarify. Or maybe I'm confused and someone call straighten me out. Vortec isn't the block it's the heads. A vortec motor (L31) is a factory roller block with the vortec heads on the motor. And like Monte said, they are some of the best heads that chevy made. And if you want real HP, check out the fast burn. They are an aluminum setup of the vortec heads with more cam clearance. And edelbrock does make a vortec substitute head that is aluminum and I'm thinking of picking a set up for my truck so i can run a larger cam, but the problem that I'm running into is the TPI won't support my cam is what I'm being told. Even with the upgraded rails and runners.

Im not sure where i got L98 from. I meant L31. Sorry bout that. What can I say im getting old. I'm thinking that the vortec was named such cause of the roller block. The later model vortec 96-up had a different bolt pattern on the heads and flowed better as well.

[monte0185]

Originally Posted by smoky02

The vortec and the LT1's are very similar, but the LT1's water flow is the opposite of the vortec. And if you use the vortec heads you have to get a converter plate (edelbrock) sells it. And I have been told that the vortec heads actually open the higher RPM's up since the reason the original TPI's fall off is due to the restrictive heads.

Sorry meant LS1. Thanks for straightening me out. Id swear Ive almost forgot my brain recently. I had an LT1 that came out of a vette and was gonna build it till I seen all the things required and it just wasnt worth it to me. sold it for like 250$ i think.

[tranz am]

so let me get this right. you can bolt on an Ls1 head onto a gen I block?

Originally Posted by monte0185

Sorry meant LS1. Thanks for straightening me out. Id swear Ive almost forgot my brain recently. I had an LT1 that came out of a vette and was gonna build it till I seen all the things required and it just wasnt worth it to me. sold it for like 250$ i think.

[monte0185]

Nope sorry if i didnt specify. The LS1 style is the new 4.8, 5.3, 5.7, and 6.0 These are a completely different critter than any of the previous engines GM came up with. Something you might want to do is look up the history of the Chevy Small block. There are several different generations and it might give you some clarification on which is which and what is compatible. I could try to explain them all but theres not enough room on this site!! LMAO. sorry theres just that many variations.

[tranz am]

yea thats what I thought, just checking. So your talking about the LT1 stuff then Im guessing. now Im really confused with all the miss printing. Lets Clarify this
So what years are the vortec heads made?
So what was the difference between the Lt1 and Vortec?
what years was the LT1 made?
So I have to use a Vortec style intake manifold with the heads unless I use an adapter plate?

Originally Posted by monte0185

Nope sorry if i didnt specify. The LS1 style is the new 4.8, 5.3, 5.7, and 6.0 These are a completely different critter than any of the previous engines GM came up with. Something you might want to do is look up the history of the Chevy Small block. There are several different generations and it might give you some clarification on which is which and what is compatible. I could try to explain them all but theres not enough room on this site!! LMAO. sorry theres just that many variations.

[monte0185]

The LT1 was a critter all of its own. It had the same basic design as the vortec in that it was a roller motor but it had a front drive distributor that ran off of a gear above the timing chain. This version also has a different water flow design then the rest of the Chevy motors. Basically it looks the same in most respects but runs completely different.

After this they went to the L31 design which has all the same attributes as the Gen 1 block but is a roller motor. These heads can be bolted onto a generation 1 block like the 307 but have an different intake bolt pattern.

Does this make any sense at all? Sorry for all the confusion.

[tranz am]

makes perfect since I just want to make sure Im understanding everything right.
So the LT1 was first installed in 92 correct? what what the cut off year for the LT1 design and the beginning of the L31 (vortec) design?

Originally Posted by monte0185

The LT1 was a critter all of its own. It had the same basic design as the vortec in that it was a roller motor but it had a front drive distributor that ran off of a gear above the timing chain. This version also has a different water flow design then the rest of the Chevy motors. Basically it looks the same in most respects but runs completely different.

After this they went to the L31 design which has all the same attributes as the Gen 1 block but is a roller motor. These heads can be bolted onto a generation 1 block like the 307 but have an different intake bolt pattern.

Does this make any sense at all? Sorry for all the confusion.

[monte0185]

Im not certain of the year range of the LT1 but it seems to me It went something like from 88-95. The L31 vortec design started in 96.

[tranz am]

awesome! thanks

Originally Posted by monte0185

Im not certain of the year range of the LT1 but it seems to me It went something like from 88-95. The L31 vortec design started in 96.

[smoky02]

TPI was 85-91
LT1 was 92-96 I believe
LS1 was 96-present
L31 is a truck motor, first debuted in 1996. They made 305 and 350. The heads installed on a 305 don't flow as well as the 350 heads

[monte0185]

Originally Posted by smoky02

TPI was 85-91
LT1 was 92-96 I believe
LS1 was 96-present
L31 is a truck motor, first debuted in 1996. They made 305 and 350. The heads installed on a 305 don't flow as well as the 350 heads

Thanks!! I figured i was wrong on the dates.