3-Speed tranny help!!

[dznucks]

I have a '69 C-10 with the original 3 speed column shift transmission. Today it started making a clicking noise in first and second gear only. It was not a grinding noise and it shifted normal. Third gear sounds fine.

I have never seen a schematic or opened up one of these transmissions. does anyone have a cluse whats going on or does anyone have a drawing or repair info?
thanks

[69GMCLonghorn]

I would guess you have a bearing that is about to fly south for the winter. they can make all kinds of weird noises. I don't know a thing about them, but I know someone that had one rebuilt a few years ago. To do the whole thing was less than $400.

[dznucks]

It sounds and feels like the gears are contacting something. Would a bearing failing allow the gears to move?

Its got fluid in it. checked it last week.

[68gmsee]

You probably have a saginaw. I've seen some repair infor on them before but I'll have to do some searching.

Personally, though, I'd have a transmission shop look at it and give you an idea of what's happening. I've taken them apart in the past but it's a pain. Lots of parts in them and you have to be very careful and inspect all of the gears. You have to know what the gears look like when they're worn and new so you can determine if they need to be replaced.

Having said all of that, I'd check all of the external possibilities first. U joints, throwout bearing, clutch adjustments, worn bushings in shift arms and check for loose bolts in flywheel, trans mounting bolts and rubber mount if you have one in the back. The loose mount can make the transmission move when subjected to more torque like when taking off in first and second.

[dznucks]

just got it home. its clacking or rattling in 1st, 2nd, and reverse. not 3rd. dont get it.

i got it up on jacks and you can hear the rattle, slightly, at idle. the stethescope is telling me its in the bellhousing. i do not hear or feel anything on the tranny or in the engine oilpan. shhhhewww.

i am about to drop the dust cover on the belhousing.

why would a clutch make these noises?

[69GMCLonghorn]

Originally Posted by dznucks

just got it home. its clacking or rattling in 1st, 2nd, and reverse. not 3rd. dont get it.

i got it up on jacks and you can hear the rattle, slightly, at idle. the stethescope is telling me its in the bellhousing. i do not hear or feel anything on the tranny or in the engine oilpan. shhhhewww.

i am about to drop the dust cover on the belhousing.

why would a clutch make these noises?

I have a feeling you're going to answer your own question on this one when you get the dust cover off or drop the tranny out.

[dznucks]

ok i'm sitting down. let me have it........i'm going to need a new clutch right? nearing 50K miles on this one, been on since in put this crate motor in.


i got the cover off. cant see squat. i wasnt going to yank the tranny until i knew exactly what it was.

[dznucks]

so what could cause this?

is a finger broken and flayling around inside the other fingers? i'd buy that.

the motor still runs great, so i am not getting any slipping. the noise is constant i guess, it just gets worse as you drive faster in first and third and reverse.

i was going to bag, notch and install drop cross member over the long weekend. now i am not sure if i am going to add the clutch install to the list or only do the clutch.

[Wrenchbender Ret]

It sounds like a trans. brg problem to me. 3rd gear is straight through so ther is no pressure on the brgs. Pull the trans. & the front retainer. You can check the front brg. & it can be replaced without tearing down the complete trans.

[dznucks]

gimme a sec....about to yank it


after i clean the grease of the keyboard

[PanelDeland]

Could be something as simple as a throwout bearing.The bad thing about these type noises is that you don't know what's wrong or how much it will cost until you have it apart.

[dznucks]

well its apart.

what am i looking for inspecting the input shaft bearing on the tranny? there was some wobble in the shaft. i spun the gears while applying applying force to the input shaft. i dont feel anything unusual.

when i had the engine idling and the stethescope out, the tranny had no noise. the sound was actually more muffled when i honed in on the engine and tranny. the bellhousing resonated the sound perfectly.

i am going to take it off now.......

[dznucks]

cant get the bellhousing out.

its loose. i just cant get it too drop out. i raised the engine and also lowered the back of the engine and i still couldnt get it out.

any suggestions. i am callin it quits for the night.

[PanelDeland]

manuall tranny bellhousings are bolted in from the inside.There is a bolt on either side going from inside the bellhousing into the crossmember.

[Tx Firefighter]

You don't need to remove the bellhousing. Just unbolt the 4 trans bolts and heave it out.

[dznucks]

i got the bellhousing loose, the tranny is laying on the concrete.

the bellhousing wont fit through the opening of the cab hump and the cross memeber. i think i need to move the engine forward. i have removed the bellhousing this way before, not sure why its being a pain in the reart. it just lacks alittle bit before it will fall out.

the clutch appears fine, all fingers in place, nothing out of the ordinary. but i cant get a good look at it because of the bellhousing.

how much play should the input shaft have to the transmission?

[Tx Firefighter]

There is no need to remove the bellhousing. Now that you have the trans out, just remove the clutch assembly. Leave the bellhousing in place.

[dznucks]

let me try to remove the clutch that way.

anybody know about the input shaft? how much play should it have and should it be able to be pulled forward any. where can you get a input shaft bearing for one of the tranny's? autozone or a transmission shop?

[68gmsee]

IIRC, I didn't have too much, if any, movement on that input shaft on my Saginaw. I don't know what trans you have but I don't remember mine having any in and out movement either.

[dznucks]

the clutch appears fine. old but fine.

in the picture i attached, the lower gear that you can barely see, moves. its as if its shaft is broken. i also i have a broken tooth on the input shaft gear.

is this fixable? or is it time to find a new tranny in the atl area?

[dznucks]

the input shaft is missing two teeth. i was mistaken about the gear underneath it. it is solid.

the input shaft seems worn. too much wobble. the bearing seems to have some excessive play in it too.

Can i get a new input shaft and bearing easily? and can i replace it without taking the tranny apart?

[dznucks]

the gear that meshes with the busted input shaft gear only has a small corner of a tooth missing. i think it would be ok if i could replace the broken input shaft and bearing.

[68gmsee]

If it has that much damage there, it may be possible you have other parts that are worn. Not to sound repetitious but a good trans shop can probably overhaul it cheaper than you may think.

I'd try to find one at a junkyard that has some older vehicles and ask them about replacement in case the one you bought was bad. They're usually pretty solid and the only time I've seen them severely damaged is by drag racing or running without grease.

[dznucks]

still trying to find a transmission.

i found one but it has a 5 bolt flange. it didnt look the sam as mine and it had 10 splines on the input shaft.

[dznucks]

i found a good tranny out of a '69 truck.

the only difference is the distance between the shift levers on the housing. this new tranny's shift levers are about one inch further apart than the old one.

can i readjust my linkages to make it work?