Project Larry - 1964 Chevy

[panelrodder81]

So, here is the story. I wanted to buy a old truck that I could drive daily while I built my '53 GMC panel truck. I found, and subsequently made a deal for a 1964 3/4 ton long bed pickup. The guy provided me with an antique auto appraisal for the truck valuing it way above the purchase price. The motor had little to no evidence of oil build up and ran great. The trans shifted awesome...etc. So I bought it. Drove it home and to work the next day. On my way north at about the 24 hour mark, the motor took a dump. According to the compression test after the fact, the motor had lost the rings on at least 4 of the 8 cylinders. The P.O. wouldn't accept any responsibility let a lone willing to payout for anything.

I ended up finding a motor on the local ads that came as a package with a th350, a torque converter, and delivery! Realizing that I was taking another risk but not being able to afford anything else I bought the motor. Below is the photographic progress of the project. As of about 6pm today the new engine is firing/running and the truck is about reassembled.

After arriving at the shop and getting the hood off:


The old engine:


My cousin Jeff helping pull the old engine and trans:


The engine hanging from the 2 ton chain ceiling system. If you haven't used a system like this before it is awesome!


Empty engine bay:


New engine. This is the pre LS 350 but with Vortec heads. Same basic motor that's in my panel truck so I'm pretty familiar with it thus it was my best choice.


The engine and transmission:


Huge jump forward as I forgot my camera for a day. But the engine is in and partially hooked up:


Photo of the interior all torn apart and the Lokar Nostalgia shifter in place. Had to pirate the shifter from my panel truck!


Close up of the installed engine. This is right after it fired for the first time.

[panelrodder81]

With hood reinstalled and almost done.


All that is left at this point is to put a timing gun on it. Tweak the carb a little. Button up the interior, specifically bolt down the seat! And I'm sure that I will have to have the exhaust redone since when the motor died, and I'm sure leading up to it, it puked out a bunch of crap into the exhaust. The pipes are just NASTY and full of black flakes. One muffler was so full it out weighed the new cherry bombs I bought by five to one and sounded like a maraca when shaken.

Any thoughts on the truck? I'm interested in hearing all opinions!

PS: The reason its name is Larry is cuz I'm a Three Stooges fan and my panel truck, being bulbous and rotund, is named Curly. When I get my dream car, a 49/50 Merc, it will be Moe.

[Captainfab]

Welcome to the '60-'66 forum Larry

Sorry to hear of your misfortune, but it looks like you've got it under control. That looks like a nice straight truck and should be a good driver with a good running engine and an auto trans now. Just so you know that grill is a '62. I can't tell from the pic if it is the aluminum grill or if it's just painted. Oh and those heads aren't the Vortec heads. They appear to be just '88-'95 heads from a TBI 350 or 305.

[62 Bowtie]

Nice job I like how that shifter fits looks like a clean truck thanks for the pics

[panelrodder81]

Originally Posted by 62 Bowtie

Nice job I like how that shifter fits looks like a clean truck thanks for the pics

Thanks. I was very pleased with the shifter. I ended up moving it to its most forward position on the mounting bracket just to make sure I would clear the bench seat in 1st, if I ever needed to go that low. I want to get the shifter knob adapter so I can use a custom knob on there.

[panelrodder81]

Originally Posted by Captainfab

Welcome to the '60-'66 forum Larry

Sorry to hear of your misfortune, but it looks like you've got it under control. That looks like a nice straight truck and should be a good driver with a good running engine and an auto trans now. Just so you know that grill is a '62. I can't tell from the pic if it is the aluminum grill or if it's just painted. Oh and those heads aren't the Vortec heads. They appear to be just '88-'95 heads from a TBI 350 or 305.

Misfortune indeed!

You are right, the truck is very straight and very solid. In the end I get a motor with fewer miles on it and I did replace various thing while under there so the whole thing is better than before but it would have been nice to not get screwed! I was told by a friend that the grill was a 61 but whatever year I like it! It appears to be aluminum by the way and in great shape. I will have to look into the head thing a little further as that is what the guy told me they were and I am not expert enough to tell on a basic visual inspection.

[panelrodder81]

Oh, and to make the story of getting screwed even more exciting, I found that, on the original motor, a corner of the intake manifold has a crack in it which was hidden back by the heater box, and the carb spacer was cracked completely through!

[blackedoutharley]

Pleasant Grove, Ca. ???

Nice truck

[panelrodder81]

Originally Posted by blackedoutharley

Pleasant Grove, Ca. ???

Nice truck

Utah.

[LILRED66]

Welcome to you and Larry to the forums from Kansas City, KS. It is nice to hear a success story, even though the beginning was a little rough. Congrats on getting Larry back into running condition.

Ditto on the grille...it is from a '62 Chevy light-duty truck. The medium-duty and heavy-duty grilles on the '62 trucks are a bit different, but your's is from a '62.

[DPowers]

Welcome to the site from East TN.
Hopefully the rest of your "stooges" goes a little smoother!!!

[markeb01]

Welcome from the Northwest. If there's an upside to the saga, it's easier to replace bad mechanical parts than it is to find a decent truck with limited rust and good sheetmetal. The body and paint on your truck looks really clean.

You'll thank yourself if you get the custom shift knob adapter. I had a Lokar years ago and if you're not paying attention it's pretty easy to fold a thumbnail back if you catch the edge of the knob hole when the button is being depressed. Also just a note your truck has the "high hump" floor. It matters if you go to buy carpet or a stock floor mat. Sure hope you don't have any more surprises.

[panelrodder81]

Originally Posted by DPowers

Welcome to the site from East TN.
Hopefully the rest of your "stooges" goes a little smoother!!!

I hope so too. I just have to come up with 30k for Moe and a couple more to finish Curly!

Originally Posted by markeb01

Welcome from the Northwest. If there's an upside to the saga, it's easier to replace bad mechanical parts than it is to find a decent truck with limited rust and good sheetmetal. The body and paint on your truck looks really clean.

You'll thank yourself if you get the custom shift knob adapter. I had a Lokar years ago and if you're not paying attention it's pretty easy to fold a thumbnail back if you catch the edge of the knob hole when the button is being depressed. Also just a note your truck has the "high hump" floor. It matters if you go to buy carpet or a stock floor mat. Sure hope you don't have any more surprises.

As always there is room for improvement when it comes to the body and paint but should be no problem for years to come as is. So yes, it could be worse. I drove a 66 for awhile with a solid drive train but has extreme rust in the usual places. The door handle would fall off and actually fell through the floor once!

Nice to hear from someone running the shifter adapter. I wanted it originally for purely cosmetic reasons but after using the shifter on my panel for a little while, I can see exactly what you are talking about!

Thanks for the "hump" info! The carpet in the truck is newer and pretty nice, though slightly faded so it should be awhile before having to do anything with it but its good to know.

[Captainfab]

There are a few guys that think that any SBC head that requires center bolt valve covers is a Vortec head......not so. The center bolt valve cover heads started in 1987. The Vortec 350 was in production from 1996 thru 2002 and requires a different intake manifold than previous years. The Vortec intake is bolted to the heads with a total of 8 bolts instead of 12, and they are at a verticle angle as opposed to being perpendicular to the head (the '87-'95's the center two on each side were angled slightly up from perpendicular to the head) Here is a pic of a Vortec intake manifold. You will notice the pattern of two bolts on each corner. Just a little FYI.

Originally Posted by panelrodder81

I will have to look into the head thing a little further as that is what the guy told me they were and I am not expert enough to tell on a basic visual inspection.

[sanford66]

Sweet truck, well worth the work! Good luck! Joseph.....I love the lokar shifter also, have to keep that in mind. I would go with the correct grill though, thats just me. Two thumbs way up!! again, Joseph

[panelrodder81]

Originally Posted by Captainfab

There are a few guys that think that any SBC head that requires center bolt valve covers is a Vortec head......not so. The center bolt valve cover heads started in 1987. The Vortec 350 was in production from 1996 thru 2002 and requires a different intake manifold than previous years. The Vortec intake is bolted to the heads with a total of 8 bolts instead of 12, and they are at a verticle angle as opposed to being perpendicular to the head (the '87-'95's the center two on each side were angled slightly up from perpendicular to the head) Here is a pic of a Vortec intake manifold. You will notice the pattern of two bolts on each corner. Just a little FYI.

Captain, thanks for the info. I did some research and found the same information that you just provided. Wish I would have just waited for you to post! I have a true Vortec in my panel truck and after looking it over it is pretty clear that the heads in the 64 aren't Vortec heads. I will have to call the seller and ask about that! Knowing this might save me some frustration though because I have a serpentine setup off a 97 Chevy 1/2 ton that I was going to use but if I don't have Vortec heads I might not be able to. Any thoughts on that ?

[panelrodder81]

Originally Posted by sanford66

Sweet truck, well worth the work! Good luck! Joseph.....I love the lokar shifter also, have to keep that in mind. I would go with the correct grill though, thats just me. Two thumbs way up!! again, Joseph

Sanford66 - thanks for the praise! I'm pretty happy with it... now! The Lokar shifter looks soooo great in the truck. I have a new pic of the interior that I can post.

Larry is now home... well at work with me! Runs good but still needs some tweaking. The TH350 seems to be shifting very hard or not until I force it to shift so I need to look into that too.... never ending right!

[Captainfab]

I haven't messed with any of the serpentine drives, but it seems to me that there is something different about the setups off of the Vortec engines....I could be wrong too.

Originally Posted by panelrodder81

Captain, thanks for the info. I did some research and found the same information that you just provided. Wish I would have just waited for you to post! I have a true Vortec in my panel truck and after looking it over it is pretty clear that the heads in the 64 aren't Vortec heads. I will have to call the seller and ask about that! Knowing this might save me some frustration though because I have a serpentine setup off a 97 Chevy 1/2 ton that I was going to use but if I don't have Vortec heads I might not be able to. Any thoughts on that ?

[panelrodder81]

Originally Posted by Captainfab

I haven't messed with any of the serpentine drives, but it seems to me that there is something different about the setups off of the Vortec engines....I could be wrong too.

No offence but I hope you are! I could always run the setup in my panel truck if it doesn't work on this motor though.

I'm not a tuning wizard so I'm thinking about taking the truck to a local shop for tune up. Is this something that many of you guys do after big swap like this?

[Captainfab]

On something basic like this, I tune them myself. I may not get it perfect at first, but that's part of learning to tune an engine. There's a sticky in the 'Engine and Drivetrain' section on engine timing if you're interested.

Originally Posted by panelrodder81

No offence but I hope you are! I could always run the setup in my panel truck if it doesn't work on this motor though.

I'm not a tuning wizard so I'm thinking about taking the truck to a local shop for tune up. Is this something that many of you guys do after big swap like this?

[panelrodder81]

Thanks for the info. I will check it out.

On a related note, I just took the truck to an exhaust shop today to get that all fixed up. I one of my original mufflers was totally wasted and the other was junk so I put new ones in. But I didn't have a welder so I used a series of adapters and clamps to get it in place. Turned out to be a nasty mess so I decided to just get it done up right. Should be able to pick up the truck around 4pm MST today. When I dropped it off we opened the hood and that is when I noticed the vacuum for the transmission was off which would explain the shifting problems I've been having! The guy was gonna give the whole thing a once over to see if I missed anything; and see if he could see where the oil leak was coming from.

[panelrodder81]

Here's is an update.

I've been running the truck without to much trouble and have been quite happy with it and its performance. I developed a cut out problem on acceleration but that turned out to be a vacuum leak. I also discovered that I am running my timing off a bit but the vacuum advance hits the intake so I'm going to have to turn it a tooth or two. Is that correct?

The only big problem happened two days ago. On my way home from work suddenly the transmission dropped 3rd gear and acted like it was in neutral though it was still in drive. Pulled off the road and check drive line, ujoint, and even made sure the converter was still spinning. Got back in, put in drive and it started to move forward again... but wouldn't shift out of 1st. Fortunately I was only like a mile from home so I limped home. Checked everything out, which is when I found the vacuum leak. Thought I had it taken care of until I tried to drive to work the next day... no go. Spent my lunch on here and other forums searching for a solution. Came to the conclusion that I would drop the pan and check from grit and also pop the cover off and remove the governor gear. THE GEAR HAD SHEARED COMPLETELY OFF!!! Worst part, the only parts place around my house is Checker and they didn't have the slightest clue was I was asking for nor could they find anything that even looked similar in their system! The pan was mostly clean, which raises a question. After a few thousand miles, like 2, should I have any grit or that gray sludge in my pan at all?

So now I'm trying to find one of these damn gears without having to order one and wait till Monday since this is a daily driver for me and my wife if pissed that I have her car! I found a used one that I'm planning on taking for now at least and might replace later.

Beyond this, my front end has developed some pops like when you need to start considering a rebuild so I've got my eyes out for an 89-98 setup for the front and rear.

[panelrodder81]

Also, sold the old engine to a friend who tore it apart to rebuild. Found that it had the wrong sized bearing in it. Had a hole burned through the bottom of the intake and a variety of other problems.... kind of amazing that it ran at all in fact.

[raycow]

Originally Posted by panelrodder81

I also discovered that I am running my timing off a bit but the vacuum advance hits the intake so I'm going to have to turn it a tooth or two. Is that correct?

Cheap and dirty fix for the timing:

Don't pull the distributor, but just rotate the body 1/8 turn so the vacuum can is away from the firewall. Move the plug wires one hole in the opposite direction. Start the engine and set the timing. You can put the distributor in "right" the next time you have a legitimate reason to pull it.

Ray

[panelrodder81]

Originally Posted by raycow

Cheap and dirty fix for the timing:

Don't pull the distributor, but just rotate the body 1/8 turn so the vacuum can is away from the firewall. Move the plug wires one hole in the opposite direction. Start the engine and set the timing. You can put the distributor in "right" the next time you have a legitimate reason to pull it.

Ray

THANK YOU!!! Excellent idea! When I put my vacuum tester on the motor and it read that that timing was off I played with the position of the distributor and when I realized that I needed to turn it further than the intake would allow I got pretty p.o.'d.

So to to confirm, if I just turn the distributor back toward the firewall approx. an 1/8th of a turn, relative to the entire distributor, then set the timing I should be able to solve the problem.

Sweet!