Muncie 3 speed with OVERDRIVE

[ol_skool_chevy]

Any body have a 1964 c10 with a 3 speed OVERDRIVE. Mine came with a over drive in it when I got it but I took it out and added a Doug Nash 5 speed in it now.
But I was to put my Doug Nash in my 31 coupe now and put my 3speed OVERDRIVE back in. Problem I have is: There was never a switch in the truck to ingauge the OVERDRIVE that I recall...I never drove the truck with that tranny in it..
How did they ingauge it? It was a factory install OVERDRIVE in that truck...

[raycow]

On a factory install, the only manual control was a cable with a T-handle mounted under the edge of the dash. With the handle pulled out, the O/D was inoperative. Pushed in, the O/D would engage automatically if you momentarily let up on the throttle at any speed above about 30 mph. Flooring the throttle would downshift the transmission to direct drive at any speed.

For full manual control, you can wire a toggle switch directly to the solenoid, but you should still have a cable, or else you won't have any way to lock out the free-wheeling when the truck is below the O/D cut-in speed. In other words, you can't park in gear with the handbrake off and expect the engine to hold the truck where it is. It will just roll away.

I like these transmissions. If my truck had come from the factory with a column shift, I would have one of them in there now.

Ray

[ol_skool_chevy]

Nope there never was a lever on or around the dash....I looked everywhere....thats strange this truck was fully intact with only 44,000 mile on it...

[raycow]

Somebody else must have gotten to it before you did. The bottom end of the cable attaches to a small lever on the left side of the tail housing. If you are lucky, the bracket for the cable will still be there.

Reproduction cables are available from some of the vintage parts vendors, but they are pricey. If you don't care about stock appearance, you can use a heavy duty choke or throttle cable from a truck or tractor supply. A car choke cable (if long enough) will also work in a pinch, but is a bit light.

Ray

[ol_skool_chevy]

Thanks Ray....Good Imfo....does your truck have a Overdrive. If so how do you like it...I have never driven one

[Joemomma1]

I dont know much about those trannys but I dont think those came from the factory for that year. The 67-72 crowd will have a lot of info.

[raycow]

Originally Posted by ol_skool_chevy

does your truck have a Overdrive. If so how do you like it...I have never driven one

Yes, but not the kind you are talking about. My truck originally came with a 4 speed, so I swapped in a T-5. However, I have installed half a dozen Warner overdrives (the kind you have) in cars and trucks that did not originally come with them, and I am putting one in my current project, which is a 60 Bel Air 348. I guess you could say I like these transmissions a lot.

Ray

[slorio]

I have a 3 speed with overdrive that installed behind my V6 305E in my 1966 GMC. In addition to being a bolt in swap, I am very happy with it. Although I have the cable (an aftermarket PTO cable works well), I never take it out of overdrive. The PTO takes it out of overdrive mechanically, I also have an on/off push/pull Cole Hersey switch on the dash that can switch out the overdrive electrically. The on/off switch controls a 30 amp relay that breaks the circuit to the electric solenoid on the left side of the transmission.

Around town, I typically shift 1st, then 2nd, then let the governor shift the overdrive in "automatically" when you let off the gas momentarily at 27 miles an hour. The overdrive reduces RPM's by 30 %. No more shifting to third with overdrive unless I am travelling over 40 MPH. If I slow below 27 miles an hour in second with overdrive, the transmission shifts out of overdrive back to 2nd. Cuts down on shifting in town. On the road with overdrive in 3rd, my engine RPM is reduced by 30% which keeps the engine from screaming at 55 or 60.

If you have the tranny, it is well worth setting up. Ray is a great resource on these trannies and helped me when I put my in.

Please e mail should you have questions or need additional information.
Regards,
Steve
New Orleans

[trevota]

ok i feel stupid. anyone got a pic of this setup? is it an auto trans or manual??

[slorio]

Trevota:
It is a manual transmission. However, the overdrive is actuated electrically via a governor switch and an electric solenoid. Read all about it here:
http://www.speedprint.com/deves50/overdriveindex.php
Regards,
Steve
New Orleans

[trevota]

good read, thanks for that. not trying to hijack the thread but what did those come in? and what will work in a 65 chevy with inline 6

[tapeworm]

I had a 67 El Camino that had this setup with a 250 I6. The overdrive unfortunatley did not work when I got the car. I took it out shortly afterwards in favor of a 350/4speed setup.

It could not be real popular; I do not recall seeing one since

[slorio]

I don't have anything scientific on the applications, but they were used from the mid 50's to the late 60's on full size GM cars and trucks. The early ones (pre 1966) had a four bolt side cover and unsynchronized first gear. The later ones from the late 60's had a seven bolt side cover and a synchronized first. Here is one on Craigslist from the late 60's. However, it does not show the governor or solenoid that sticks out from the right and left, respectively. These two parts are getting hard to find, so it would help to buy a transmission with these in good order. These overdrives (built by Borg Warner) were also attached to Ford and Chrysler transmissions, however the transmissions would not have the GM bolt pattern and are different. See Ford version as well in this ad:
http://orlando.craigslist.org/pts/1744730937.html

Regards,
Steve
New Orleans

[68 IRON]

Subscribed for future use....good info!

[tkeduk8r]

id love to see pics, as I have never seen one of these units in a 60-66.... great thread!
--Mike

[D'Monsta]

Originally Posted by tkeduk8r

id love to see pics, as I have never seen one of these units in a 60-66.... great thread!
--Mike

I recently install the SM 319 w/ BW R-10 OD unit in my '66 GMC truck.. It's a terrific improvement give me better fuel economy and reduced my RPM on the highway from 3000 @ 70 MPH to 1800 @ 70 MPH.. Mine came from a 1958 Impala and with my 3:54 rear gears, my speedometer is still accurate.. Great set up!

[Blk63vette]

Originally Posted by D'Monsta

I recently install the SM 319 w/ BW R-10 OD unit in my '66 GMC truck.. It's a terrific improvement give me better fuel economy and reduced my RPM on the highway from 3000 @ 70 MPH to 1800 @ 70 MPH.. Mine came from a 1958 Impala and with my 3:54 rear gears, my speedometer is still accurate.. Great set up!

I trying to my stuff together and start working on my truck and I have a three speed overdrive. I need to install.

[1restorick]

I have a 3-speed overdrive in my 63 truck and I love it. The overdrive units made by Borg Warner are quite tough and well built, but the connected Muncie 3 speed cannot take any serious horsepower. It is actually easier to get parts today, than it was thirty years ago when I first restored my truck. Borg Warner made the R10 which was a three pinion design and the R11 which was a four pinion design. The R11 came in several Ford products and the R10 in several Chevrolets and Studebakers and others. These units offer a significant RPM reduction in both second and third gear. For my truck with a 4:11 gear ratio, it drops the RPM from 3000 RPM at sixty miles per hour to 2000RPM. When overdrive is not engaged but not locked out, (under 28 miles per hour) the unit freewheels which allows for selection of 1st gear regardless of being non synchronized. I just enjoy the charm of shifting on the column and the ability to cruise down the highway at 75-80 MPH.

This company is selling a reproduction solenoid, relay and wiring harness as well:

https://vintageautogarage.com/

Good luck with your install.


Rick

[factorystock]

I'm surprised to hear the praise for this box. Unlike later units, around '66 and newer that are full syncro, the older box has a non syncro first gear. The 30% overdrive is too steep for a heavier vehicle, which is why the C 10 came with a 4.11 ratio from the factory and they were not available in C 20's. IMO, the ideal box should have been a truck type 5 speed overdrive. Has a creeper for dead stops on steep hills and a 20% overdrive, just right for a heavier vehicle, not to mention much, much stronger.

[D'Monsta]

Originally Posted by factorystock

I'm surprised to hear the praise for this box. Unlike later units, around '66 and newer that are full syncro, the older box has a non syncro first gear. The 30% overdrive is too steep for a heavier vehicle, which is why the C 10 came with a 4.11 ratio from the factory and they were not available in C 20's. IMO, the ideal box should have been a truck type 5 speed overdrive. Has a creeper for dead stops on steep hills and a 20% overdrive, just right for a heavier vehicle, not to mention much, much stronger.

Well, what 'should have been' in this case is irrelevant.. If it doesn't exist or isn't available what good is the speculation?. Sure, I'd like a later Saginaw 3 speed w R-11 OD (and may find one someday) but what I HAVE is an SM 319 with R-10 that works great with my 250 straight 6 and it's 3:54 rear gears with stock size tires. I actually use my truck for business and pleasure. Driving around town with tools and a few sticks of lumber then hitting the highway and being able to do 70 MPH gives me great satisfaction.. I only have about $250 invested in this trans and it's already paid for itself.. I understand it's limitations but rarely, if ever, am I in a situation when they will be exceeded.. Sure, I wish the Muncie 3 speed was a bit tougher but so far it has been adequate for my needs. As I get older, I have more respect for things that have lasted a long time and I don't beat on them..

[1restorick]

I've had this transmission in my truck since I purchased it. My truck was a six cylinder from the factory but when I bought it, the PO had installed a 350 V8 out of an impala. I built that motor with Airflow Research heads, a Crane cam and a rotating assembly from Racing Heads Services. It has awesome power and torque and I used to drive it pretty hard. Two years ago, I broke the synchro drum speed shifting into 3rd gear at about 90 MPH. I then rebuilt a spare overdrive that I had with new bearing and seals. The gears were like new in it, not even any first gear chips. Now I am driving it more gently. I actually was able to find a complete gearset for the broken transmission and I rebuilt that as a spare. The overdrive section was still like new, but there was not a single useable gear in the transmission. Bottom line, I enjoy the overdrive and the column shift as well.

Rick

[Arne]

Originally Posted by factorystock

I'm surprised to hear the praise for this box. Unlike later units, around '66 and newer that are full syncro, the older box has a non syncro first gear. The 30% overdrive is too steep for a heavier vehicle, which is why the C 10 came with a 4.11 ratio from the factory and they were not available in C 20's. IMO, the ideal box should have been a truck type 5 speed overdrive. Has a creeper for dead stops on steep hills and a 20% overdrive, just right for a heavier vehicle, not to mention much, much stronger.

My project truck came to me with a A833 4-speed manual attached to the 305 small block. The 833 has 1st, 2nd and 3rd similar to a 3-speed (3rd is 1:1) with an 0.75 overdrive 4th. Should be a nice package for a mild cruiser or daily use.

While the 833 was originally designed by New Process for Mopar as a HD unit to go behind '60s Hemis, the unit with overdrive that GM spec'd for light trucks in the early '80s has an aluminum case, and is not good for high torque engines. They never fitted it to anything more powerful than the 305.

Even so, it might be more reliable for light to moderate use than the old overdrive units.

[murdoc]

Originally Posted by factorystock

I'm surprised to hear the praise for this box. Unlike later units, around '66 and newer that are full syncro, the older box has a non syncro first gear. The 30% overdrive is too steep for a heavier vehicle, which is why the C 10 came with a 4.11 ratio from the factory and they were not available in C 20's. IMO, the ideal box should have been a truck type 5 speed overdrive. Has a creeper for dead stops on steep hills and a 20% overdrive, just right for a heavier vehicle, not to mention much, much stronger.

I agree with you, the muncie leaves much to be desired. For light duty hauling and around town cruising, I think it works fine. I enjoy the overdrive in my truck, but know the limitations and never push it too hard.

I lack the time currently to rebuild the transmission were I to break it, so that does leave me driving my truck as if it were an old sedan of the same era. Not as satisfactory, but enjoyable none the less.

I own a saginaw 3 speed transmission with the r10 overdrive, which will go in eventually. My hope is that it performs much better than the muncie un-synchronized. It would have been nice to have a heavier duty option with overdrive for column shifting trucks.

[theastronaut]

Another option to drop RPM on highways but keep column shift is to use a wide ratio Saginaw and a 3.08 r&p. The steeper first gear will still let it take off from a stop easily and the ratios aren't as wide spread as the stock three speed. You have to make new shift linkage and use a pull cable for the reverse lever.

[factorystock]

This is the trans I would have liked to see GM offer as an option on C 20's and C 30's. or a heavy duty C 10's used for towing travel trailers or heavier boats back in the day.https://www.motortrend.com/how-to/15...-transmission/ (Watch out for boat ramps 3 speed owners, they're clutch burners). Don't know if it will clear the frame cross member without some grinding or clear the standard 4 speed dog house on '63-'66 1/2-1 tons, because I have never tried it, and apparently nobody has tried it on this forum either. The trans was used on 60's medium duty trucks, so competent mechanic could have done this swap over the last 5 decades. unlike the NV 4500, which did not exist in this era. This is professional grade stuff, things the Big three automakers though you shouldn't need. To give credit, IH (International ) did offer a truck type 5 speed overdrive for certain model pickups in this era.