violent front end bounce

[DetroitDan]

I just read a thread about this, cant locate it again. I just put my 82 on the road, find that occasionally when i hit a bump just right, the front suspension begins bouncing violently, almost like an oscillating I guess? It's so bad it scares the crap out of me, have to stop to make it go away, but then you can drive again. I have been told numerous things it could be. People say the steering stabilizer, well I ordered a new one, but in the meantime I looked at the old one to see if it was leaking or damaged, it looks brand new! Probably the p.o. had it replaced in an attempt to correct the problem. Others say lower balljoints, I've checked them twice and they feel fine. My cousin told me his 3/4 did the exact same thing and it ended up being wheel bearings. So I checked and the right side had a little bit of play, so I just replaced them. Didn't change a thing. I thought maybe shocks, but doesn't it seem like if the shocks were bad it would just bounce slowly and soupy? This is a fast, ultra violent bouncing, I'm certain a front tire is leaving the ground. It's happening at about 30-40 mph, I wouldn't want to experience it any faster. I feel a little faint beginnings of it at lower speeds, but it doesn't get really bouncing. Overall the truck rides like crap. I understand it's a big heavy old 1 ton, but I am very accustomed to old live axle trucks, and 1 tons. This thing really rides bad.
What about springs, there's none broken that I can see, but if the shocks were bad or something, idk, could they do this? Also, I noticed there are two bumpstops, one over the axle and another behind it over the spring. There are rub marks from contact, and they only clear the spring by an inch or two. I think this is involved somehow, maybe when the truck bottoms out a gainst the bumpstops it is doing something weird.
SO, lastly, I have a set of good front 4 inch lift springs and Rancho shocks, which I wanted to wait until spring to install. No way do I want to try replacing shocks when I already have a good set waiting for the lift. What are the odds the problem will go away when I change the springs and shocks?

Thanks for reading the long post, and hope somebody can help.

[old Rusty C10]

you may want to ask this in the suspension area if you dont recieve replies here.. meanwhile heres a bump at least

[DetroitDan]

whoops, my bad. I didn't even know there was a suspension forum.

[463]

the shocks are shot. long and short of it.

[DetroitDan]

I'll buy that, they look old and it has to be somehow suspension related rather than ball joints, I'd think. But how is it doing it? I mean what exactly is happening? No shock and the spring is oscillating? I thought if a shock bled out (they look dry) it would just bounce gently like a boat wallowing over the waves.
Like I said, I'm not buying shocks when I already have the new lift shocks. Now I really need to get off my butt and lift it. Still waiting for the steering arm lift block to come in though. And I have nothing else to drive at the moment. This stinks.

[463]

you can go over to the truck and push down on the bumper and watch how many times it will bounce. more than once says the shocks are shot. link http://www.safety-triangle.com/;)

[old Rusty C10]

its an up and down bounce not a side to side bounce? or the wheel getting jiggled outta your hand?

[cvalcore]

i would check your steering box it will couse this if its sloppy you can adjust it for a temp fix there is a set screw with a jam nut on the top of the steering box break loose the jam nut and screw down the set screw a couple of turns and you will feel your steering getting tighter but dont go to far becouse it will cause problems like cracking the top on the lid and makeing it leak all over. then tighten the jam nut and see if that helps also check all of your tie rod ends and your drop pitman arm i have had them come loose on me.

[DetroitDan]

I did check the shock bounce, it feels stiff, not soupy like what I think of bad shocks being. That's why I didn't think it was shocks. The shocks don't look new but they aren't leaking. I've worn shocks out before without getting this. Although I can't remember doing it to a stock truck, usually lift springs and longer shocks are one of the first things I do. So these bumpstop marks are making me suspicious.
At this point I will try anything, but I have heard from everyone and everywhere that every single component can and will cause this. One friend had it happen and said it was the stabilizer and that fixed it. Another said it happened and it was wheel bearings. If you think a particular component is the cause, please offer a little explanation as to how it is happening.
Like I said, I think it is a wheel hopping up and down, but I've been told thats in my head, and it's actually the wheels going left to right. I can feel it in the steering wheel, but it;s just a rapid shake so I cant tell by that. But the bumpstop marks tend to agree with it being up and down motion as opposed to side beside.
Steering, tierods all feel ok, not new but not sloppy loose either. Again, I've worn out tierods before and not experienced this.
Thanks for all the input

[DetroitDan]

OK, I posted this same thing on another forum, got one response that made a ton of sense. Here's a link to what I believe is the part to fix the problem. http://www.offroaddesign.com/catalog...ng-bushing.htm

[rjn72]

Originally Posted by DetroitDan

OK, I posted this same thing on another forum, got one response that made a ton of sense. Here's a link to what I believe is the part to fix the problem. http://www.offroaddesign.com/catalog...ng-bushing.htm

You got it. I have an 87 that is 4x4. If you have a dana in the front end, you dont have ball joints, you have king pins. I replaced just the springs and plastic caps and put new tires on the front and I haven't had a bounce since. If you want to search it more, it is called death wobble. Springs and balanced tires should fix your problem.

[DetroitDan]

I keep hearing king pins mentioned, I thought kingpins were only on straight axle (2wd) commercial trucks. But others keep saying lower balljoints on a 60 will do this. So what is it? I know it's not conventional kingpins, maybe an upper and a lower kingpin? I had blljoints on all my other Danas, but they were 44s not 60s.

[abebummy26]

It's death wobble it sounds like to me

[DetroitDan]

got the parts in today from ORD. goes into the shop tomorrow, and while I have the steering arm off I may as well add the lift block. And once thats done I may as well put the new 4" springs in too. And can't do that without the new shocks..
By tomorrow night I hope to be driving a lifted crewcab!

[HTX86chevy]

my father had a ford that used to do the same thing. used to scare the poo outta me when i borrowed it. only happened when you would hit a bump and wouldnt stop shaking til you came to a complete stop! I'll ask him what it was and get back to you with the info. (he still has the ford and it doesnt do it anymore so hopefully he remembers what the fix was)

[87 V20 Scottsdale]

Originally Posted by rjn72

You got it. I have an 87 that is 4x4. If you have a dana in the front end, you dont have ball joints, you have king pins. I replaced just the springs and plastic caps and put new tires on the front and I haven't had a bounce since. If you want to search it more, it is called death wobble. Springs and balanced tires should fix your problem.

X2.... My K30 does the exact same thing, death wobble. It needs the same fix yours does. If you haven't rotated the tires in awhile you may try that just to buy yourself a little more time until you get around to installing the lift springs. I rotated the tires on mine in October and the death wobbles have not re-appeared yet.

[DetroitDan]

I installed the new ORD kingpin springs and cups today. Old ones were about a quarter inch shorter and felt worn. Added a lift block for the steering arm while I had it off, but then couldn't put the lift springs in because they are the wrong ones, guy sold them to me told me they were for a Dana 60 but they are obviously narrow ones for a 1/2 or 3/4 ton. Already got the 4 inch blocks in the rear, so the truck looks reeetarded now. Plus the rear shocks weren't long enough, so now I have no shocks in the rear.
Here's the best part: after a long frustrating day in the shop, I drove my half lifted box home and was overjoyed to find that it still does the death wobble when you hit a bump. Yay.
I'm going to try rotating the tires, I actually have mismatched tires on the front. I got 5 matching and couldnt get a 6th, so I put one on with similar tread, exact size and load rating and all, so I didn't think it would be a problem. Still not convinced it is, unless it's a bad tire. Couldn't replace the missing tire because they discontinued them.
If my front end is tight, my steering stabilizer is new, and I've replaced those little springs, then I guess it's gotta be tires, leaf springs or shocks, that's all that's left. Thought sure that ORD kit would cure it.

[87 V20 Scottsdale]

I hope you can figure out what is wrong with your truck. I doubt that the problem lies in the tires themselves, I rotated mine because the inside of the tires was wearing faster than the outside. The dissapearance of the death wobble was just a coincidence.

[ont_guy_38]

I had the same thing with a truck I owned and it turned out to be tire balancing

[str8axle55]

Welcom to the death wobble. To start off my K30 had a broken frame @ the steering box when I bought it. I have the wobble also. I repl the steering stabilizer to buy some time and greased the crap out of the front end. It got much better. I know the lower kingpin bearing is junk on the L/S, waiting till spring to repl. Check your lowr bearings, prybar between knuckle and Dana 60 hsg, wheels off the ground. My tires are fair at best, worn inside, rears samllr than fronts, don`t think that has anything to do with it. I saw your ad on CL for the front springs also.

[Yupiamlo]

Its funny this is up here cause this is why I came on tonight...

I have a 2wd 85 C10 that is doing it real bad, same thing "death wobble", I was told to do my ball joints to fix it, does that sound right?
Its real bad from the front passenger tire.

[MikeBK]

Death wobble is a big problem with wranglers to, it can be caused by worn ball joints/kingpin bushings and springs, tierod ends, tire balance,or over inflated tires, had that one happen to me in my 04 Rubicon. It can also be caused by a worn steering box or a combination of any or all of these things,but it is almost never caused by the steering damper.

[rjn72]

I have had mine fixed for four months or so and since I put new kingpin springs in and new tires on the front, mine has not wobbled. I have also been told that bigger tires will cause the same problem and taller spring hangers on the front that let the truck flex. It might be several things that just need tightened so to speak. I would put my truck on jack stands and check everything, tie rods to king pins to steering box. What size tires are you running? Do you have any pics of your truck? How about spring bushings in your front springs, do they look dry rotted? It may not be one thing, it may be a combination of several.

[DetroitDan]

I only went up a little in tire size, from 215/85 to 235/85. I want to put my 255/85s on it after the lift. What I did notice after doing the kinpin springs is it only did the death wobble a couple times, whereas it was doing it every couple minutes on these bumpy winter roads. So it seems a little better. I did check the front end, only thing I found was the right wheelbearings were a little loose, and I replaced them.
Next step is to replace the front springs and shocks, bigger steering stabilizer, rotate the tires around and get two different ones up front. If this doesn't fix it I'm at a loss. I've tried or checked everything I can find. My GM guru guy said on his it was the steering stabilizer, don't know who else to go to for old sfa stuff.
Always heard about how fantastic these dana 60s are; so far I am not impressed.

[maynardtruckin]

its not the dana 60 it sounds like just a worn out front end as you replace parts it will get better really sounds like shocks and bushings but still could be a steering box. If all of that don't work then i would take your dana 60 front.