Engine Machine Work

[DeputyDan]

So I decided to rebuild my engine instead of buying a crate engine so I know what's really in it. I stripped the block down and called my local machine shop that has a great reputation. I asked how much it would be to have the old tired 350 machined. I was shocked when he told me about $300 for cleaning, boring, R&R cam bearing work, new freeze plugs, decking, and magnafluxing. Does that seem right? Also have I missed anything you guys can think of that is necessary in the machine work I should ask about? Keep in mind this is basic machine work not any assembly work. I tried to get him to stick the pistons and crank in but he's getting older and doesn't do that anymore. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated!

[DT1]

It actually seems like a great price. Maybe because I live in Ca.
Did he give you a price for the heads?

[Jessechop]

Up here thats a great price. Typicaly I bring a bare, clean block. No frost plugs, no cam bearings, etc. All he does is dip the block, check and bore and it is right around $275. Then I have to buy and install cam bearings, frost plugs, etc.

[allengator]

good deal!
the last one I built I spent $900 for the machine work (including heads)

[Lee H]

That's a great price.

[DeputyDan]

Well I bought new Edelbrock Heads so he's not doing the heads just the block. I still am a little shocked at the price almost seems like something isn't right or he was confused about it all lol! I never actually rebuilt one before so is there any work other than what I listed that is necessary? I'm thinking he is going to have to bore it over .030 so I am assuming I will need new piston heads.

[KrazyRay]

While they have your block, why not get the mains align honed? Every sbc that Ive seen come through needed the mains done.

[cdowns]

iff bored you need new pistons and rings, then you need the rods checked and or rebuilt and the pistons installed on the rods, good time to get the crank done either polished or cut depending on the specs when measured

if you dont have a good detailed book on rebuilding now wood b a good time to invest in one, or check the shelves in your local library

[ChevLoRay]

Last (only) one I ever had done was $50...to get it boiled out, mains miked, new freeze plugs and new cam bearings. Let's see, it was 1978.....

[CaptRMW]

Originally Posted by DDixon1000

So I decided to rebuild my engine instead of buying a crate engine so I know what's really in it. I stripped the block down and called my local machine shop that has a great reputation. I asked how much it would be to have the old tired 350 machined. I was shocked when he told me about $300 for cleaning, boring, R&R cam bearing work, new freeze plugs, decking, and magnafluxing. Does that seem right? Also have I missed anything you guys can think of that is necessary in the machine work I should ask about? Keep in mind this is basic machine work not any assembly work. I tried to get him to stick the pistons and crank in but he's getting older and doesn't do that anymore. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated!

I pay $160.00 to have a block bored and the pistons fitted (he won't bore the block without the pistons in his hand). Another shop gets $150.00 to turn the crank (turn cranks is all this guy does and he is the best). Vat the block, cam bearings installed, resize bearing bore on rods will run the total to over $450.00 but this work is done by top of the line auto machinists who crank out the same high quality whether you are building a 650 H.P. race engine or a bone stock grocery hauler. Now I am getting scared since you said "he's getting older and doesn't do that any more". I am 68 and still build my own premium quality engines. So I wonder if maybe I should get to cranking on the vortec roller on the engine stand before I get "too old". does anyone know how old "too old is"? Just curious.

[lsteiner72]

Originally Posted by KrazyRay

While they have your block, why not get the mains align honed? Every sbc that Ive seen come through needed the mains done.

Align honing the mains is the last of machining work that should be done if looking at saving money imo.

[DeputyDan]

Originally Posted by CaptRMW

I pay $160.00 to have a block bored and the pistons fitted (he won't bore the block without the pistons in his hand). Another shop gets $150.00 to turn the crank (turn cranks is all this guy does and he is the best). Vat the block, cam bearings installed, resize bearing bore on rods will run the total to over $450.00 but this work is done by top of the line auto machinists who crank out the same high quality whether you are building a 650 H.P. race engine or a bone stock grocery hauler. Now I am getting scared since you said "he's getting older and doesn't do that any more". I am 68 and still build my own premium quality engines. So I wonder if maybe I should get to cranking on the vortec roller on the engine stand before I get "too old". does anyone know how old "too old is"? Just curious.

I talked to him again he said he could square the deck for an additional $200 and align honing is $175 so that jumps it up there a bit. I am assuming I will need everything balanced as he said it will need a .020 or .030 over bore. Also he is the one that said he was getting older not me lol! I can honestly say I am one 30 year old that respects and soaks up everything I can from that "older" crowd! Besides that I have an "older" brother and dad that helped me pull the engine and tranny so I have to watch what I say lol!

[propanemudtruck]

A few years back was the last small block I built, I believe it was $500 for block work w/o heads and just honing the cylinders. Sounds like machine work is about the same across the board give or take a few...

[ryans69chevy]

What's a good way to decide on an engine rebuilder. I plan on doing a lot of the work myself, but I need the block magnafluxed and heads re-done and cam bearings installed. I've heard a lot of good things about 2 places around here that do good work. How do I choose what place to take it to?? I suck at choosing...

[DeputyDan]

good question ryan. In my case I have had the opportunity to talk to various people in the community who have used the shop I chose and checked internet reviews and better business bureau complaints. My question is is align honing the crank area and balancing the crank and rods necessary on a 350 that will just see the street? Anyone get by without it?

[Hubscrub]

sounds right to me our prices around here are about that. not hard to build a motor cheaper than a crate cost around here, but i do assemble myself.

[GASoline71]

Those prices are pretty much spot on for any engine rebuild. Not overpriced at all.

Gary

[KrazyRay]

Originally Posted by DDixon1000

good question ryan. In my case I have had the opportunity to talk to various people in the community who have used the shop I chose and checked internet reviews and better business bureau complaints. My question is is align honing the crank area and balancing the crank and rods necessary on a 350 that will just see the street? Anyone get by without it?

You can get by without doing all of the balancing, etc. IMO if you don't want to do all of the machining, Why not just clean the block and put new rings, bearings, and gaskets and save some bucks? I know a few people that go this route and it works for them.

[lurch115]

how ironic to see this post! i just picked up my shortblock from the machine shop on friday and it was $768 total.

here is a list of what i had done. (keep in mind this motor only had like 10k miles on it before the rebuild)

clean and crack check.
inspect block.
check rods.
hone cylinders.
shave deck surface .010.
line bore main journals for new crank.
clean and inspect pistons and rods.
.010/.010 grind on the crank.
balance rotating assembly.
remove and replace cam bearings.
assmble rotating assembly in block.(put pistons in block with file fit rings and install crank with all new bearings)
remove and replace frost plugs.
remove and replace broken head alignment pin.


this was a slightly odd rebuild though too because i had issues with the rings on cylinder #8 which caused the engine to burn oil. when i did the tear down i found the cause was due to the compression ring in the head gasket had failed and caught the top ring in that cylinder. the reason i replaced the crank was cause the PO of the vehicle it was in had either reused a bad harmonic balancer or didn't get it installed all the way and messed up the keyway in the end of the crankshaft.

[bigsnookmaster]

I would do as cdowns said and read up before you jump in and just go for it. IMO, I would have the block line honed, or at least checked, I would have the block zero decked, and bored with torque plates, and balanced.Do a little research on this type of machine work, and see what the theory is behind it. I know this seems like a lot of money right now, but it will pay off years down the road.

[Ticker]

Isn't this the same thread?

http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=449833

A couple of quick notes:

A line hone isn't really required unless the main bores aren't round or aren't straight. Not commonly understood, but a line hone is used to achieve correct bearing crush...not to "align" the main bore typically. If you're going to be turning more than 6K RPM on a regular basis, then it's a must have. The bearings you took out will tell the story.

Zero decking needs to be approached carefully and with all the right math as it will dramatically affect your compression ratio. It's the right thing to do to achieve the right quench with a cheap, off-the-shelf gasket.

I believe in boring and honing with torque plates as it gives a rounder bore for sure...but I always note that for a relatively stock rebuild it's not required. Note that no factory small block was plate bored/honed until the LS7, so we know that it's not required...it just makes more power

Same thing for squaring the deck - if you're not making more than about 1.4 HP/CID it's really not worth it. It makes the cylinders all consistent...but if you're going to do that you should carefully check rod length, crank index, etc. IMHO, if you're not using a forged crank and aftermarket rods, it's not worth it as the index tolerance on a cast crank isn't close enough to make it matter.

[CaptRMW]

DDixon1000 you now have 19 replies of mostly pure speculation. If we don't know what you expect out of the engine no one can give an accurate account of what is needed to achieve your goal. If you Plastigage the main bearings as you assemble and the clearance is correct and the crank spins smoothly with no tight spots then buy a keg of beer with the money you saved for not doing the align hone that you "didn't need". If it is to be a mostly stock configuration street engine and you don't have known crank bore problems then align honing and "file fit" rings is like putting a $300,000.00 saddle on a $20.00 horse. Just my $.02

[DeputyDan]

thanks guys!