Kicking around ideas for Spring setup

[BR3W CITY]

So I've been running my lq4 with the Tsunami for a while, and its a good bit of fun, but I've been ready for more for a bit. Last year we put off more performance to clean up the body/bed/interior...but its not fast enuff

Our long term plan is still to go FI, but we have at least 3 other builds that we are inolved in this spring so its unlikely that I'd have time or money to do it this year....but we still want to have some fun on the truck.

A friend who owes me some favors has got a stack of parts we may throw on the truck, in one combo or another. Here's what we've got, so tell me what you think.

We've got a set of VERY nice ported and milled 317's, done by a very reputable guy at SAM. They are down to a 69cc chamber, and have been flowed, having #'s as good or better than the TSP cnc ported 317's through about 90+% of lift.
They are fitted with Manley proper length pushrods and all Manley Titanium valve retainers/locks etc. New gm valves. Either my PRC or another set we have of Dual springs.

We have my TSP Tsunami to re use, or there is also a very nice Tick Blower Cam. I know we may be down a few #'s on the blower cam without the blower, but its a surprisingly good cam without the blower (I'll post the specs).

He's got an LS2 manifold laying around as well, along with the rest of the intake path.
- this brings up some seperate issues.
I need/want to keep my lq4 dbw pedal/tac because of how it had to be made to fit, I'd rather not redo that. We need to figure a way to
A) make an offset spacer to tilt/angle the TB on the manifold so it will clear the truck water pump outlet (not changing my accessories).
B)run the ls2 90mm TB using my existing dbw control (tuning is not an issue, we just don't know if this can be done without an xdrive)
C)make that offset spacer for the tb also convert down to the 3 bolt 80mm truck TB so I can use it on the ls2 manifold.

I would likely pickup an aftermarket rail so I can run the ls2 intake, but keep my return style fuel system which I prefer for a few reasons. I may/may not step up to 60# injectors from the 39-42's that I have now.

Lastly, we need to upgrade from the TBSS manifolds to a real header, as I'm leaving too much power out. DT's are a popular option, but we have access to a machinist/fabricator who can make us custom headers for the material cost. Either way, we'd be looking at something similar to the Doug Thorley big tubes (whether or not its actually DT brand).



Thoughts? This is driven by the words FREE/CHEAP/FAVOR, so its unlikely I will stray too far from some of what is listed. We just aren't sure which way we want to put it together lol.

[jamesjones]

Have you considered going with the "Sloppy Mechanics" setup for FI? It seems if you can fab up the hot side, you can do a decent budget turbo setup...

https://sites.google.com/site/sloppywiki/

[smoky02]

For headers you could also look at pacesetter. That is what I'm running. Also becareful with those dual springs, I don't know how many miles they already have on them, but after about 20,000 they are prone to breaking (I had a bad experience).

[Andy4639]

About the only thing I can comment on is the headers.
I would look at the Stainless works headers.

http://www.stainlessworks.net/produc...e-systems.html


These are the ones Hawks installed on my 6.0.

I will have to get the stock # he never gave it to me.

[Super73]

Do you have room to turn the tbss manifolds backwards?
From a material standpoint fabbing hot and cold side would probably be cheaper than building the headers.
I am sure you could find an inexpensive turbo with internal waste gate.

By the time your done screwing with the manifold and headers to gain 40ish who, you could have 7lbs of boost making upwards of 100.

[jamesjones]

Originally Posted by Super73

Do you have room to turn the tbss manifolds backwards?
From a material standpoint fabbing hot and cold side would probably be cheaper than building the headers.
I am sure you could find an inexpensive turbo with internal waste gate.

By the time your done screwing with the manifold and headers to gain 40ish who, you could have 7lbs of boost making upwards of 100.

That's what I'm sayin.

[Hart_Rod]

Just and FYI, you can use a 2010+ camaro water pump. It has the same offset as the trucks and shouldn't affect you accessories.

[BR3W CITY]

I've seen the sloppy FI, but frankly its not my style. Fabbing the hotside isn't an issue for us, its more of an issue of time/budget right now.

We can do the heads, blower cam, intake etc and run it as-is for a season, maybe starting on the FI stuff over the next season. If we start on the FI stuff now, we most likely won't be done timewise the way we want.

The head swap stuff can get done in a weekend. The way we want to run FI would take much longer, since we'd STILL swap the heads etc.


Hart, good call on the Camaro pump, I didn't know that and it might make life a chunk easier. Costs on the headers etc aren't a factor, I'm owed a couple grand so everything would be comp'd for me.

[BR3W CITY]

Originally Posted by smoky02

For headers you could also look at pacesetter. That is what I'm running. Also becareful with those dual springs, I don't know how many miles they already have on them, but after about 20,000 they are prone to breaking (I had a bad experience).

Was it with PRC duals, or were you running something like a 918 (which snap)

[smoky02]

Yes it was a set of PRC duals.

[softballnrd27]

If your going turbo then headers are a wasted investment. The heads and cam isn't a bad idea but the cam you have in there now is probably better for n/a I would think. I'm not sure if there would be any difference between a supercharger cam or turbo cam

[smoky02]

Also on the heads. I am also in the process of rebuilding my LQ4. And every shop that talk to is tell me that if I'm wanting to make big FI power I'm going to need to buy after market heads because they have the thicker deck area. Of course I have read where plenty of guys are pushing 20+ psi on stock heads but that is just some info that I have come across.

[BR3W CITY]

That would be news to me, though I understand the concept. If you wanna go with 1/2" studs etc, I suppose having a thicker deck would be nice, and it might help with lifting/warping...but I imagine you'd have to get to a certain level of boost before that becomes a real threat.

We haven't warped one yet, and we haven't had a build where we've really pushed coolant or lifted either. You can go to a 6 bolt head I guess...but thats a whole different discussion.

[jamesjones]

Originally Posted by BR3W CITY

I've seen the sloppy FI, but frankly its not my style. Fabbing the hotside isn't an issue for us, its more of an issue of time/budget right now.

Come on man...Chinese turbo, running it until it pops...what's not to like?

[Super73]

Only advantage of a 6 bolt head on a stock block is the 3/4" deck. I am fighting this issue a little right now. I have to be super conservative on my n20 tune or I lift the heads. I am trying to take some efficiency out right now by increasing quench some with a thicker gasket. This is with 690rwhp, haven't even touch the 2nd stage yet. Stock diameter head studs.

I have twin 67's sitting here to go on; but I told myself I am not doing it until I:
Buy my new front end
Buy a built 80e to replace the glide
Buy a 6 bolt block

I sort of understand where you are coming from.

[BR3W CITY]

Its that whole "exponential money" thing that happens.

I guess I would rather do some of the head stuff to get the gains AND still have a good base for my FI (especially considering the low cost of parts for me in this case), vs spending the normal prices on just turboing the otherwise stock motor. And Again, I'm not really paying for any of it, aside from the material cost on the headers. I guess I could even forego that and just run the TBSS manifolds still, but with the increases in efficiency on the intake side, I'd be robbing myself by keeping them. I can always sell the custom set of long tubes to one of yall if we made em and didn't need em (same goes for buying the DT's)

Super- I'm almost surprised that your lifting that early on 1 stage. Our Trans-am is getting a 2 stage plate, on a 317-headed 5.7 with a MS-3 stick...and we weren't planning on dealing with lift that early. The 408 ain't built yet....and I'm already making changes... We were'nt gonna stress pushing water until getting the 6spd car damn near single digits (though I guess your pretty much there).

The whole thing gets weird when you look at the "junkyard" lq4's I see with an MP76 and bottle making deep 5's low 6's and huffing along happy. It's like the Rod Bolts discussion....and I haven't put a set in yet



Are any of you guys running the car-intakes with a return system? I really like my return system, but I got no problem maybe going with an aftermarket rail/reg on the car intake if I switch.

[Super73]

Keep in mind, I am 13-1scr, 8.8dcr if memory serves. I am seeing 205psi of cranking compression and my quench is low .04x".. I need to knock some efficiency out of the combo as the tuning window is rather small..

The other thing that added insult to injury is ARP has changed their TQ spec on their head studs 3 times in the last 7 years. Last time heads went on, they should have been at 80lbs according to the paperwork I have. Now they recommend 90lbs. Checking my TQ wrench, 80lbs was actually only 70lbs. So I was 20lbs light compared to the new spec.

The cars running high 5's/low 6's, what do they weigh?

I have no doubt my pile will be there shortly The times in my sig are a single 57n jet that made 100rwhp on the chassis dyno. Plus it was rather fat on the pass.

[softballnrd27]

You do have a good point on the custom headers. If you only have to pay for materials then you could off load them on here pretty damn easy. How long do you plan on running it before adding the turbos?

[BR3W CITY]

Originally Posted by Super73

The cars running high 5's/low 6's, what do they weigh?

Bad phrasing, I meant making like 590-650rwhp without seeing the issues you saw. I don't think I possess the ability to make a 6 second car lol.

[BR3W CITY]

Originally Posted by softballnrd27

You do have a good point on the custom headers. If you only have to pay for materials then you could off load them on here pretty damn easy. How long do you plan on running it before adding the turbos?

Could be a year, could be 3. I really should buy a house before I have a truck insured for more than a house.

[softballnrd27]

I would do the headers then since the cost is low and everything else you mentioned that is almost free.

[Wasted Income]

Originally Posted by BR3W CITY

I really should buy a house before I have a truck insured for more than a house.

Good call.

[jamesjones]

Originally Posted by BR3W CITY

Could be a year, could be 3. I really should buy a house before I have a truck insured for more than a house.

I wish I lived somewhere where that was possible.

[BR3W CITY]

Well, its not really possible here if you ignore all the areas that you'd NEVER want to live it. Which eliminates 60% of the city.

The rest is expensive, and still full of potholes.

[littlevictories]

Originally Posted by jamesjones

I wish I lived somewhere where that was possible.

you and me both brother