The 1947 - Present Chevrolet & GMC Truck Message Board Network







Register or Log In To remove these advertisements.

Go Back   The 1947 - Present Chevrolet & GMC Truck Message Board Network > 47 - Current classic GM Trucks > The 1967 - 1972 Chevrolet & GMC Pickups Message Board

Web 67-72chevytrucks.com


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 12-10-2014, 08:44 PM   #1
jpoole
Registered User
 
jpoole's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: McKinney, TX
Posts: 31
Alternator not charging

Hi guys, installed a dual fan radiator setup last weekend and now my alternator is not charging according to Holley Terminator EFI system, gauge shows OK. Had a broken terminal end so I changed that and went to start and would not start. I then put in a new battery and started fine, however, the holley terminator system still showed 11 volts when running.

Alternator seems to be a single wire conversion to an internal regulator and If I check voltage off the back of the alternator it is 11 volts also.

Could I have broken a wire somewhere that causes the alternator to no longer charge?

What could I have done to cause this? Was working fine before changing the radiator and adding the fans last weekend. Also changed belt and tensioner.

Any help appreciated.

Last edited by jpoole; 12-10-2014 at 09:06 PM.
jpoole is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-10-2014, 09:42 PM   #2
tommys72
Registered User
 
tommys72's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: springfield mo
Posts: 3,075
Re: Alternator not charging

External voltage regulator may have gone bad. happened to mine and had
just about the issues. replaced It and no issues since
__________________
United States Marine Corps 2000-2011
Iraq and Afghanistan veteran
Just living life now and enjoying it and my wife, daughter and son


tommys72 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-10-2014, 11:02 PM   #3
Andy4639
Old member
 
Andy4639's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Liberty, & Garden City S.C. , U.S.
Posts: 19,945
Question Re: Alternator not charging

What size alternator is it? I would think you may have over amp'ed it maybe.

Check the battery with a volt meter with everything turned off but motor running @ 2000 RPM's. Then watch it and turn one thing on at a time to see when it starts going down.

A one wire alternator shouldn't have a external regulator. Check the hub on passenger side fender by battery and make sure all wires are connected good. Also check all your fuses inline.
__________________
1971 LWB Custom, 6.0LS & 4L80E, Speedhut.com GPS speedometer & gauges with A/C. 20" Boss 338's Grey wheels 4 wheel disc brakes. My Driver
Seeing the USA in a 71


Upstate SC GM Truck Club
2013,14 and 2016 Hot Rod Pour Tour


http://upstategmtrucks.com/



Get out and drive the truck this summer and have some fun!
It sucks not being able to hear!

LWB trucks rule, if you don't think so measure your SWB!
After talking to tech support at Air Lift I have found out that the kit I need is 60811. Per the measurements I gave them. Ride height of truck inside spring and inside diameter of springs.
Andy4639 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-11-2014, 09:33 AM   #4
Zeke's Garage
Senior Member
 
Zeke's Garage's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Kennesaw, GA
Posts: 288
Re: Alternator not charging

Do you have any pictures of the alternator and wiring? Specifically the rear charging post and plug. From that we should be able to tell what type of alternator you're running and how to move forward.
Do you have any idiot lights for the charging system?

If you're only seeing 11v at the back of the alternator, then it's not putting out any voltage and you're just running off the battery. Upgrading to a newer internally regulated system is very simple and one of the best upgrades for adding electronics (upgraded radio, amps, and especially EFI systems with an electric fuel pump).
__________________
--
'67 Chevy Stepside
250 Inline 6
Megasquirt Fuel Injection
T5 5 speed conversion
Ferric Oxide impregnation throughout
Zeke's Garage is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-11-2014, 12:13 PM   #5
MARKDTN
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Chattanooga, TN
Posts: 2,165
Re: Alternator not charging

Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy4639 View Post
What size alternator is it? I would think you may have over amp'ed it maybe.

Check the battery with a volt meter with everything turned off but motor running @ 2000 RPM's. Then watch it and turn one thing on at a time to see when it starts going down.

A one wire alternator shouldn't have a external regulator. Check the hub on passenger side fender by battery and make sure all wires are connected good. Also check all your fuses inline.
Yep, dual electric fans are too big for any of the normal 12SI alternators. Idle amps are not too good on a 12SI and that is when you need it most for fans. Best swap is a CS144 from a '96 Roadmaster or Caprice. Do not waste time with a CS130, you will only be left stranded somewhere.

http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=579118
http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=457448
more.....
__________________
'83 K20-TPI
'73 C10
'79 C10-ex-diesel(SOLD)
'07 Tahoe(Son driving)
'14 Suburban-DD
'71 C10-current project
MARKDTN is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-11-2014, 07:28 PM   #6
jpoole
Registered User
 
jpoole's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: McKinney, TX
Posts: 31
Re: Alternator not charging

Hi Guys, thanks for the replys. I have attached a couple of pics. I found it is a CS130 105 amp alternator.

The alternator is showing 11.9 with nothing but the fuel pump and EFI running. It was 13.7 before.

It was working fine before installing the radiator, but now even with just the engine running no fans connected or AC on it is 11.9 at the back of the alternator.

Will a CS144 bolt up to my chevy performance serpentine setup?

thanks, Jeff
Attached Images
  
jpoole is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-12-2014, 08:37 AM   #7
MARKDTN
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Chattanooga, TN
Posts: 2,165
Re: Alternator not charging

There is a lot of info on CS130 to CS144 conversion. I don't exactly know what your brackets are, but it appears that there is a CS144 on '99 Suburbans that does directly interchange. It would probably help if you had a good alternator shop to talk to. The plug is the same, so the mounting should be the biggest obstacle.

Current thinking may be different, but I wouldn't use a CS130 as a doorstop! I went through 3 in 60,000 miles in my '89 IROC and 2 in 50,000 miles in my '95 Suburban. Corvette guys used to carry a spare if they went on a road trip. Had a '96 Caprice bought new that had over 100,000 when I sold it with never an issue with alternator (CS144). May be that a CS130 can be built to survive, but the CS144 has been surviving fine since day 1. Which would you rather have?
__________________
'83 K20-TPI
'73 C10
'79 C10-ex-diesel(SOLD)
'07 Tahoe(Son driving)
'14 Suburban-DD
'71 C10-current project
MARKDTN is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-12-2014, 09:36 AM   #8
Koffer
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Hopewell NJ 08525
Posts: 232
Re: Alternator not charging

Is your white wire getting voltage .
.
Here's a nice diagram to use for toubleshooting
http://alternatorparts.com/gm-delco-...g-diagram.html
__________________
'77 P10 (GMs late 60s thru the 70s truck spare parts bin model )
Koffer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-12-2014, 11:53 AM   #9
jpoole
Registered User
 
jpoole's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: McKinney, TX
Posts: 31
Re: Alternator not charging

Quote:
Originally Posted by Koffer View Post
Is your white wire getting voltage .
.
Here's a nice diagram to use for toubleshooting
http://alternatorparts.com/gm-delco-...g-diagram.html
I don't know will check. I have a stupid question, what is the process, engine ignition on? and what volts?

Thanks, Jeff
jpoole is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-12-2014, 01:33 PM   #10
VetteVet
Msgt USAF Ret

 
VetteVet's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Kalamazoo, Michigan
Posts: 8,718
Re: Alternator not charging

Quote:
Originally Posted by jpoole View Post
I don't know will check. I have a stupid question, what is the process, engine ignition on? and what volts?

Thanks, Jeff
The CS 144 should bolt up just fine. it's the AD 244 that is a little larger and requires modifying the mounting brackets.

No question is stupid.
The brown/white wire in question is the exciter wire for the alternator and it should have 12 volts on it with the key on and zero with the key off.

On the older trucks, when they are converted to the CS alternators a resistor is required in the L (brown/white) wire to prevent the diodes in the alternator from blowing out. What is the connector in your picture between the brown and white wire?
It's always a good idea to give details about your truck so we know what year and engine, etc. we're dealing with.
__________________
VetteVet

metallic green 67 stepside
74 corvette convertible
1965 Harley sportster
1995 Harley wide glide

Growing old is hell, but it beats the alternative.
VetteVet is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-12-2014, 03:03 PM   #11
jpoole
Registered User
 
jpoole's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: McKinney, TX
Posts: 31
Re: Alternator not charging

Quote:
Originally Posted by VetteVet View Post
The CS 144 should bolt up just fine. it's the AD 244 that is a little larger and requires modifying the mounting brackets.

No question is stupid.
The brown/white wire in question is the exciter wire for the alternator and it should have 12 volts on it with the key on and zero with the key off.

On the older trucks, when they are converted to the CS alternators a resistor is required in the L (brown/white) wire to prevent the diodes in the alternator from blowing out. What is the connector in your picture between the brown and white wire?
It's always a good idea to give details about your truck so we know what year and engine, etc. we're dealing with.
Truck is a 1969 C10 with a 396 cid.
Chevy Performance Serpentine Setup with AC
700R4 trans
12 Bolt True Trak with 3.73
Holley Terminator EFI setup with Areomotive electric intank pump
dual fans on the radiator
Classic Air.

I don't know if the connector is a resistor or just a wire crimp. It was like that when I purchased the truck.

I will test the volts when I get home tonight if it stops raining.

Thanks, Jeff
jpoole is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-12-2014, 07:30 PM   #12
jpoole
Registered User
 
jpoole's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: McKinney, TX
Posts: 31
Re: Alternator not charging

Quote:
Originally Posted by Koffer View Post
Is your white wire getting voltage .
.
Here's a nice diagram to use for toubleshooting
http://alternatorparts.com/gm-delco-...g-diagram.html
Well looks like this is my problem. Thanks Koffer

Tested plug wire at the alternator with key on and no juice 00.0 on the multimeter, traced the white wire up to the firewall where it has a splice into a brown wire where it showed 00.1.

Is there a fuse associated with the alternator brown wire? Also any power blocks I need to look at?

Thanks, Jeff
jpoole is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-12-2014, 08:09 PM   #13
Koffer
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Hopewell NJ 08525
Posts: 232
Re: Alternator not charging

Here's a wiring diagram link for the stock wiring
http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=185856
__________________
'77 P10 (GMs late 60s thru the 70s truck spare parts bin model )
Koffer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-12-2014, 08:29 PM   #14
jpoole
Registered User
 
jpoole's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: McKinney, TX
Posts: 31
Re: Alternator not charging

Quote:
Originally Posted by Koffer View Post
Here's a wiring diagram link for the stock wiring
http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=185856
Thanks Koffer, it goes to the Brown/white bulkhead connect as shown in the diagram for the instrumet cluster connector with gauges, however is there a daigram on where it goes from there?

System was working before I installed the fans on radiator.
jpoole is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-13-2014, 02:19 AM   #15
VetteVet
Msgt USAF Ret

 
VetteVet's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Kalamazoo, Michigan
Posts: 8,718
Re: Alternator not charging

If you have a gauge dash the brown wire goes to the key switch and if you have the light dash it goes to the cluster plug.
In the original harness for the external regulated alternator, the wire is a resistance wire equivalent to 10 ohms which equals the resistance of the charging light in the idiot light dash. This resistance is needed top excite the fields in the alternator and it protects the diodes in the diode trio inside alternator. It also prevents feedback from the alternator to the key switch when the engine is shut down to prevent engine run on.

Both of these wires are connected together on the inside of the cab in the bulk head block and are connected to the 16 gauge brown wire on the engine side of the bulk head block. If you have the gauge dash you will not have the charging light wire.

You should check for 12 volts on the brown wire on the engine side of the bulk head block and if you have it there then you have an open in the splices on the white wire.

The diagrams below show the path of the resistance wire from the key switch and the charging light to the inside of the cab bulkhead. The cab bulkhead block is under the fuse panel and there are no fuses on the wires.

The resistance wire is the fourth one down on the key switch at the top of the diagram and the charging light wire is the second one down below the pink wire on the cluster plug.

Name:  Cab-2-web.jpg
Views: 8455
Size:  104.5 KB

This diagram shows the wires running to the cab block where they join. Shown by the orange arrow on the left side of the diagram.

Name:  cab 3,jpg.jpg
Views: 3560
Size:  102.5 KB

When you convert to the CS alternator it is necessary to increase the ohms from 10 to between 30 and 300 ohms. Painless wiring recommends an 85 ohm 5 watt resistor.
__________________
VetteVet

metallic green 67 stepside
74 corvette convertible
1965 Harley sportster
1995 Harley wide glide

Growing old is hell, but it beats the alternative.
VetteVet is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-13-2014, 09:42 AM   #16
jpoole
Registered User
 
jpoole's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: McKinney, TX
Posts: 31
Re: Alternator not charging

thanks VetteVet for the advice, funny thing. Started tracing back again looked at the wires etc pulled a little and straighted. Started mulitmeter work and I now have power to the alternator exciter wire.

I don't see any resistor installed so I will do that and solder the 2 butt connector connections.

Oh well it is charging now at 13.7.

Thanks everyone for the help.
jpoole is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-13-2014, 10:35 AM   #17
jjzepplin
Registered User
 
jjzepplin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Ruskin Florida
Posts: 4,566
Re: Alternator not charging

Subbed for diagram and explanation.
__________________
70 swb 4x4 406sbc 700r4 203/205 d60/14blt locker yadda yadda http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...88#post6935688 Yeller
72 Blazer 2wd conversion project "No Daggum Money" http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=550804 LS1-T56 3.73 LSD super budget build
Blanco-2014 Sierra SWB https://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/...d.php?t=810350
jjzepplin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-14-2014, 09:25 PM   #18
70CHEVYBB
Senior Member
 
70CHEVYBB's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: chillicothe, illinois
Posts: 690
Re: Alternator not charging

I am also have a problem of not charging. I did convert to a cs130 and found out today that the brown wire only has 1.8 volts with the key on. can I just use a different wire that has 12 volts as I am not real sure why the brown wire does not have 12 volts.
70CHEVYBB is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-14-2014, 11:16 PM   #19
VetteVet
Msgt USAF Ret

 
VetteVet's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Kalamazoo, Michigan
Posts: 8,718
Re: Alternator not charging

Quote:
Originally Posted by 70CHEVYBB View Post
I am also have a problem of not charging. I did convert to a cs130 and found out today that the brown wire only has 1.8 volts with the key on. can I just use a different wire that has 12 volts as I am not real sure why the brown wire does not have 12 volts.
Where'd you take your reading at? It's possible that the brown wire at the fire wall block connection has a poor connection with the wire from the key switch on the other (cab) side of the block.

You can run an exciter wire to the L terminal from any key on source as long as you use the resister in the wire. I wouldn't use the ignition distributor wire though. One of the IGN Unfused terminals on the fuse block would be great for that.I would encourage you to use the brown wire if you can find where the poor connection is. I like to run the brown wire straight from the firewall block to the L pin on the alternator like the diagram below.

Name:  ammetershuntCS130.jpg
Views: 6301
Size:  30.6 KB
__________________
VetteVet

metallic green 67 stepside
74 corvette convertible
1965 Harley sportster
1995 Harley wide glide

Growing old is hell, but it beats the alternative.
VetteVet is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-15-2014, 11:11 AM   #20
70CHEVYBB
Senior Member
 
70CHEVYBB's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: chillicothe, illinois
Posts: 690
Re: Alternator not charging

I have mine wired like you diagram, the only thing different is I put my resistor closer to the firewall. I will pull the fire wall block and check it there.

Thanks, Wes
70CHEVYBB is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-15-2014, 12:35 PM   #21
67 chevelle
Registered User
 
67 chevelle's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: WEST PALM FLORIDA
Posts: 1,174
Re: Alternator not charging

You dont need a resistor if you have an alternator light , the light itself is the resistor , and is essential to your alternator running correctly . It should glow with the key on and engine not running , if it does not there is an issue . It should go off when your engine is running , if it does not there is an issue . Power goes from your "key on" position to the alternator light then to the brown wire , which is spliced to the white wire in most cases when doing a conversion from a external regulated system , to a internal regulated system . If you can read , and comprehend this link you will be an expert . It might give you a head ache , it did to me , but after going back to it and rereading many many times , I am better off understanding chevy's systems .

http://www.madelectrical.com/electrical-tech.shtml
__________________
68 Long Fleet , ly6 , turbo 350 , 3-5 drop , original paint , front discs
67 Small window , 7 foot bed , tweaked 6.0 LSX 2004R Medium Olive
58 Apache fleet , 235 , offy intake , dual exhaust , 4 on the floor , red/white
69 Long Fleet , Custom , 6.0, 4l60 , AC , Medium Olive

Last edited by 67 chevelle; 12-15-2014 at 12:40 PM.
67 chevelle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-15-2014, 08:55 PM   #22
jpoole
Registered User
 
jpoole's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: McKinney, TX
Posts: 31
Re: Alternator not charging

Hi guys, have few more questions. I dropped to like 12.6 charging with the alternator being warm, EFI and a single radiator fan on. I don't thing AC, 2 fans, a radio and lights will work with the current 105 amp alternator.

I looked into a CS144 conversion and I don't see how that big sucker is going to fit into my CS130 space. So I am looking into a higher output CS130. I have read where they are not setup to support the higher AMPS.

Questions:
1. Does anyone have a suggestion on a CS130 aftermarket alternator that may hold up?
2. Should I go 140 or 170 with EFI, electric fuel pump, dual radiator fans, HEI, radio and AC?
3. What wires need to be upgraded to handle increase in amperage?

Thanks everyone, and Cowboys rule...
jpoole is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-16-2014, 10:10 AM   #23
70CHEVYBB
Senior Member
 
70CHEVYBB's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: chillicothe, illinois
Posts: 690
Re: Alternator not charging

Orielly's = JUNK
70CHEVYBB is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-17-2014, 09:59 PM   #24
70CHEVYBB
Senior Member
 
70CHEVYBB's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: chillicothe, illinois
Posts: 690
Re: Alternator not charging

Still have no idea why my drown wire only has 1.8 volts. Is there a problem with just using a different wire to power up the alternator?
70CHEVYBB is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-18-2014, 01:32 AM   #25
CastIron
Registered User
 
CastIron's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Oregon
Posts: 329
Re: Alternator not charging

The CS130D alternator is more reliable than the CS130 and you should be able to find one that would bolt right up in place of it. I forget what they are rated at, but I think between 105-120 amps. Get a genuine delco and it should be good for a 200k+ miles.
CastIron is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 06:59 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Copyright 1997-2022 67-72chevytrucks.com