Frame differences

[First c10]

Hey guys
What are the difference between a c10 and k10 frame? Can a c10 long bed frame be used in a k10 long bed. If so any big changes?

[john@thepier]

c-10=2wd k-10=4wd a body can be swapped to either frame, only minor differences, cab will need high trans tunnel for 4wd

[First c10]

I mean can I take a c10 frame and use it on a k10?

[Vintage Windmills]

You can but it will take some work. The rear section is a little different where the suspension attaches, not to mention the leaf spring attachement points on the front, and the bracketry up there, bumper brackets, etc. Also the K10 frame would have a higher section modulus (strength) assuming lwb. If its coil spring, its even further from being correct for 4wd.

[SS Tim]

Metal by the numbers

C Blazer
C10 115"
C10 127"- 6.04" section height, 2.53" flange width, 0.156" thick, 2.98 section modulus

K Blazer
K10 115"- 6.02" section height, 2.71" flange width, 0.141" thick, 2.70 section modulus

K10 127"
K20 127"- 6.09" section height, 2.75" flange width, 0.186" thick, 3.48 section modulus

[First c10]

Ok I was told that the frames were all the same between C and K's. Just the brackets and such were different. So I thought I would ask.
Thank you all for the info I will look for a lwb k10 frame.

[SS Tim]

K10 LWB or K20 frame would work for you.
There are a lot of frame variations looking at them as rivited assemblies. While some can be easily modified its best to start with as close a match as possible.

[First c10]

Originally Posted by SS Tim

K10 LWB or K20 frame would work for you.
There are a lot of frame variations looking at them as rivited assemblies. While some can be easily modified its best to start with as close a match as possible.

Great to know... What is different on a k30 frame?

[SS Tim]

Originally Posted by First c10

Great to know... What is different on a k30 frame?

There were no regular production factory K30s 67-72 only upfitter conversions like NAPCO's.
The factory K30 wasn't offered until '77 with a 131.5" & 164.5"wb.
Very different frames than the 72 down frames.

But since you asked here is something to digest.


These are the different PICKUP TRUCK frames as I understand.
Referenced from the GM 1970 truck engineering specifications book. This list does not differentiate between manual and automatic versions, that about doubles the list!
Any corrections are invited.
SS Tim

C Blazer COIL
C/10 115" COIL
C/10 115" LEAF
C/10 127" COIL
C/10 127" LEAF
C/20 127" COIL
C/20 127" LEAF
C/30 133" LEAF (Longhorn C/20 & C/30, 9' Stepside)
C/30 157" LEAF (Chassis Cab only) included for reference


K Blazer
K/10 115"
K/10 / K/20 127"



The frame section and modulus numbers, 39k psi carbon steel through C30s. Note the increased section height, flange width and thickness changes of the frame as the series step up.

C Blazer
C10 115"
C10 127"- 6.04" section height, 2.53" flange width, 0.156" thick, 2.98 section modulus

C20 127"- 6.11" section height, 2.46" flange width, 0.194" thick, 3.71 section modulus

C20/30 133" (Longhorns)- 7.20" section height, 2.77" flange width, 0.194" thick, 5.05 section modulus

C30 157"- 8.18" section height, 2.97" flange width, 0.224" thick, 7.29 section modulus


K Blazer
K10 115"- 6.02" section height, 2.71" flange width, 0.141" thick, 2.70 section modulus

K10 127"
K20 127"- 6.09" section height, 2.75" flange width, 0.186" thick, 3.48 section modulus

A note on frame stiffness.

By lukecp

"I had a course in Mechanics of Materials last semster, which is basically calculating stresses and strains in deformable bodies (beams, pipes, columns, ect), along with deformation, ect. I don't remember going over it, but I cracked open my book from the class and this is what it says:

S = I/c, where:
S = Section Modulus
I = Moment of Inertia
c = Distance from Neutral Axis (center of gravity) to edge of beam

The section modulus is used then to calculate the maximum stress in any section of a beam using the formula:

Max Stress = -Mr/S, where:
M = Resisting Moment. This is the moment (think a rotational force, like a torque applied) that is resisting the forces applied to a beam. If you had a steel beam solidly attached to a wall, where the beam is free at one end, and hung a weight from it, the resisting moment would be the torque needed at the attached end of the beam to resist the force of the weight of the beam and the added weight, and keep the beam from ripping out of the wall.

It also says that the section modulus becomes larger if the shape of the beam is altered to concentrate more of the area as far as possible from the neutral axis (center of gravity). This could include raising the height of the "C" channel, making it wider, or having a frame with thicker horizontial sections than vertical sections. I'd assume that the frame is "taller" than a C-10 frame, but every C-20 I've seen has had a frame that looks identical to my C-10. The frame could be wider, that is my guess for the difference.

So, what does all of that mean? The larger the section modulus, the smaller the maximum stress in the beam caused by the weigth of the truck and whatever cargo or trailer is being carried/towed. So, a larger section modulus causes a beam (or frame in this case) to be able to safetly carry larger loads without deforming or breaking.

In this case, increasing the section modulus from 2.7 to 3.48 would decrease the maximum stress felt in the beam/frame by 22.4%."


So...
K10-20 vs C20, the C20 is about 8% stiffer
K10-20 vs C20-30 Longhorn, the Longhorn is about 45% stiffer
C30 & C20-30 Longhorn (133") vs C30 (157"), the C30 (157") is about 44% stiffer
K10-20 vs C30 (157"), the C30 (157") is about twice the stiffness of a K10-20.

[Vintage Windmills]

Good info Tim. The effects of section height are apparent here. The base equation for moment of inertia of a rectangle is 1/12 x base width x height cubed. So adding a couple inches on 6 inches of frame height doesn't add 33% strength, it approximately doubles it. Add material to the height and it gets cubed!

39,000 psi is on the low end for steel, do you know when the grade used by GM increased?

[SS Tim]

Since my at hand data is showing 36K?-39K up through '85 it probably remained the spec. until the T400s were released. Even then they probably remained longer with the legacy models like the Crew Cabs Subs and Blazers.
Sombody needs to buzz Kieth on that answer.
If you are thinking about Big Red its probably a 39k frame.

[First c10]

Wow this is great info I really had not seen before....
Thanks
Scott

[1972K20]

Older thread, but really good info.

[toolboxchev]

And I still learn something everyday on these rigs from the people that form this site.