Brake pedal mods and unspoken topics.

[BR3W CITY]

So I'm putting this here since the learning curve is a little steeper in this section, and some of yall may understand where I'm coming from. This is sort of philosophical, but there is an actual technical question in its midst. Skip to the **** below if you just want the technical discussion.

I've noticed that in "forum culture" there are certain mods and topics that go largely un-addressed for a number of reasons. I don't mean stuff that breaks forum rules or offends people, I mean stuff that is automotively germain.

Allow me to expound; in the world of hot-rodding, noting was really out-of-bounds. Any functional means to fix a problem was considered valid, and nothing was out of the realm of possibility.

But the more we've advanced cars, safety, and our understanding of both, we shy away from certain topics. What you "can" do, often becomes what you "should" do....whether or not its practical, or even the best solution.

It seems as if the majority of these topics are involving safety. Things involving cages, brakes, airbags, fire, crash resistance, etc are all topics that less and less individuals want to respond to...especially if it means suggesting something controversial.

Back in the day, I knew tons of people who removed crash bars in cars for weight loss or to fit custom bumpers. Many of us here have removed bumpers in favor of roll pans. But if you break it down, is it "really" a good idea? If I tell you that I prefer a truck without rear bumpers, am I contributing to your negligence if an accident occurred? I sure as hell hope not.

****
So with my little philosophical rant explored, lets look at another real world example. I'm tall, and no amount of work to the seats or cab has improved that beyond where it was....so recently we just decided to go ahead and section a chunk of the floor out and forward to create a little "footwell" like you might see in some race cars.

My truck is DBW, so gas pedal relocation is easy...but there is this other pedal thats kind of a primadonna. Its the scary brake pedal, the one your not supposed to f*ck with. I need to move it 3-4" to the left, and about an inch down.

I'm well aware the pedal needs to be strong, very strong. I have hydroboost so it won't have the same pedal pressure as manual brakes would, but you definately don't want the thing to break off under your foot. The real question is; can I get away with putting a crook in the pedal to angle it as needed (even reinforcing if need be)? Would I be better off building a custom-offset pedal the retains its rod geometry?

Due to the way its setup, switching out the entire thing for an aftermarket wilwood unit would be no more beneficial, and moving the hydrobooster unit/master/wiring/lines under the truck isn't an option like it is w/ certain aftermarket vacuum boosters.

I'm tired, this post got waay to long. I'm curious about the discussion that follows, whether or not it answers my questions

[regan wilson]

I cut the pad off and moved it to the left with a brace welded underneath. I suppose you could move the arm on its pivot point. You might have to put some angle in the foot pad to compensate.

[71Dragtruck]

I had actually forgot or more haven't thought about it for years, but anyway back in 1986 when I got my truck the brake peddle was removed and a pie piece cut out of it, edges beveled and welded back together, weld buffed and wulla the peddle hieght was lowered to a level where my knee didn't hit the steering wheel when my foot was lifted to apply the brakes.

[hotrod 80]

My brake peddle is moved also I have size12 feet and the truck was originally a stick . It is moved so the peddle pad isn't square to the truck , but square to my foot . I overbuild in this department .

[Marv D]

It falls off the taboo wagon as soon as you look at an aftermarket brake pedal for race cars...

Jerry Bickly throttle and brake pdal kit

If you make a GOOD weld on the existing material,,, your leg (even pulling like hell on the steering wheel) isn't strong enough to bend the pedal I bet.

What's that ols song....
bend me, shape me, any way you like me....

[BR3W CITY]

Thats responses from 4 of the first 6 people I'd hope would chime in....I'm pretty happy with that lol.

That reaffirms what I'd hoped, which is that as long as common-sense building prevails, I can do what I need to do. Ideally I can just bend it for clearances, but worst case scenario I've got equal-thickness stock sitting around that I can section for a custom pedal.

If you guys have pics handy I'd love to see 'em, otherwise I'll troll your builds again a little later for them

[hotrod 80]

I'll get a picture of mine tommorow .

[71Dragtruck]

Not to much to see on mine, can't even tell it's been modified unless you are looking at a stock one too.

[BossHogg69]

I didn't modify my stock pedal, but I am using an aftermarket pedal set. I don't know if that counts or not. I'm using a hydroboost setup as well. I have seen a few guys drill holes in their pedal arms for looks too on this board. Of course drilling holes in the pedal arm of a show truck and a race truck/something that is beaten on are two different things.

[BR3W CITY]

Boss, could you tell me what pedal set your using, and how it was to install? (do you have pics in the build? I can check there too).

I'd consider an aftermarket pedal, but part of me is concerned I'd still have to mod it.

[truckster]

I'm coming to the party a little late, but my opinion is: It's just steel. The factory welds the parts together, so if you need to move it or reshape it, just make sure you make a good weld.

[BossHogg69]

Originally Posted by BR3W CITY

Boss, could you tell me what pedal set your using, and how it was to install? (do you have pics in the build? I can check there too).

I'd consider an aftermarket pedal, but part of me is concerned I'd still have to mod it.

They are Lokar, and were easy to install, but I'm using a hyd clutch and the setup is a stock replacement set, so I made a turnbuckle adjuster for it to the master and the Hydratech brake booster had a turnbuckle for it. The pedals are pretty much shaped like the stock ones, so they may not solve any issues you're having. I may have some pics I can post up. I bought these more for the look - I agree with truckster - as long as you make a good weld or use suitable material, modifying or fabbing a new pedal shouldn't be a big deal.

[BossHogg69]

here are some pics of the adjusters on the upper pedal arm. The brake pedal is the top pic, it only adjusts on one end, so it has to be unbolted from the pedal to adjust the pedal height. It came with the hydratech kit, but I had to install a bushing in it to work with the bolt hole in the Lokar pedal. The clutch adjuster I made with a piece of tubing and put a LH nut on one end with a LH rod end and a RH nut on the other with a RH rod end so I could adjust it without taking it off the pedal arm. I had to drill a hole in the pedal to work with my hydraulic clutch (McLeod hyd t.o. bearing) if I remember correctly I used a 5:1 ratio to find the spot to drill the hole.

[Kyle@FTP]

Originally Posted by Marv D

It falls off the taboo wagon as soon as you look at an aftermarket brake pedal for race cars...

Jerry Bickly throttle and brake pdal kit

If you make a GOOD weld on the existing material,,, your leg (even pulling like hell on the steering wheel) isn't strong enough to bend the pedal I bet.

What's that ols song....
bend me, shape me, any way you like me....

Nailed it. I think its not talked about because the average guy bolting on average parts in his garage doesn't need to move it or have the ability. From a safety standpoint, screwing with the brake pedal is no different from doing brakes in my book. You have to make sure the work is good or pay the price. Do whatever your mind can dream up just make sure the design is good and the work is solid.

The Brake pedals in the racecar is 3/4 Chromo with a bend on manual brakes. I couldnt bend it if I tried with my foot.

[BR3W CITY]

We finished the tub on the floor today, and it actually came out pretty nicely all things considered. We're pulling the brake mount tomorrow to start more planning. Essentially, my gas pedal will end up where my brake is, and my brake will end up sorta where a clutch pedal might, but still leave a full dead pedal (which now exists due to the tub)

[Keith Seymore]

Good discussion.

The only comment I would make, relative to the "taboo" aspect, is the factory has dozens of people designing, reviewing and testing the specific part, across a couple layers of management and representing more than one discipline (design vs durability vs validation, design vs manufacturing, etc). This can include several component level and vehicle level destructive tests, to verify they are on the right track and optimize the design for mass/cost/part count under all kinds of different loading and aging scenarios.

Unfortunately, when we as vehicle owners fab or modify parts out in the field we only have enough resources for one destructive test (usually). Hopefully we can intuitively overbuild and it never comes to that.

K

[BossHogg69]

Originally Posted by BR3W CITY

We finished the tub on the floor today, and it actually came out pretty nicely all things considered. We're pulling the brake mount tomorrow to start more planning. Essentially, my gas pedal will end up where my brake is, and my brake will end up sorta where a clutch pedal might, but still leave a full dead pedal (which now exists due to the tub)

C'mon with the pics man!

[BR3W CITY]

A little awkard to photo being under the dash, but here are a couple. Its not the fun shiny kind of mods I like to do, and it doesn't add any horsepower, but I'm calling it a function-over-form kinda mod. Comfort is a safety issue. We bedlinered both sides to reduce noise etc, then sectioned the carpet just a bit to fit down in there. I gotta trim-out the carpet edges a bit more evenly.



Next stop is the pedal situation, which I think I might be able to solve...so, does anyone have a leftover clutch pedal for a 66?

[BR3W CITY]

We've come too far, we can't turn back now haha

[Kyle@FTP]

At this point just make it out of chromoly tubing and put the bend where you want it.

[BR3W CITY]

After thinking way too hard about it, we just ended up slightly modifying the bracket that holds the column (for some side clearance), and used the brake pedal pivot point to fabricate a new stalk. Old pivot up top, old pedal pad/bend reused at the botton, hand made leg in between.

After a million test fits, it was welded all up thoroughly, and ground back/dressed and painted. It exits just inward of a stock clutch pedal, and uses the clutch pedal bumpstop at max-excursion. The standard pedal pushrod location etc is all there, and it still also uses the regular bumpstop and the stop switch.



So far so good. Much more comfortable and allows me to put the seat forward a notch and leaned back a notch. The heal-toe spacing is better as well (Even with my size 14's, it might be a little wide for others. We did the gas pedal as well, I'm adding all the pics to my build.

[PK-72-Cheyenne]

I know I'm posting to an old thread but whats the finished product look like?

PK.

[BR3W CITY]

I've got pics of the thing getting finished up, then installed with our tubbed floor in the last few pages of my build. I don't have a chance to get the img links at the moment.

[burnin oil]

Old thread but I have a comment on one point that was asked. Can you bend the pedal. My 72 was originally a brush truck for a fire department and was until about 5 years ago. Sometime, probably early on, it had both the clutch and brake pedals heated and bent to clear their boots. Still working fine as my DD. Honestly anything fabbed up is probably stronger than a lot of factory parts. I have seen more than one factory pedal that had 3 long spot welds holding the tube for the cross bolt to the actual pedal leg.

[BR3W CITY]

You can, but its fairly thick. I've bent pedal stalks, shifters and a few other things with a HF 20ton press. Works amazing for controlled bends.