whats the best winch??

[72kool]

So i am buying a 1993 suburban from my dad that has a winch operated snow plow on it. He originally put a cheap 2000# superwinch on it but it is worn out. I am trying to find a good winch that will last without killing my wallet. I want a big enough winch that it can be used year round and not just with the plow connected. so whats the best brands? what should i stay away from? I am looking at the viper winches on ebay but never heard of them before.

[snj8198]

Viper winches are made by MotoAlliance in MN. Their ATV Viper line up are excellent as the build and military spec materials are comparable to Warns. I have the Viper Elite 5000# on my Rzr 1000 and it was very reasonably priced. I do not have any experience with their full size vehicle winches tho. If they are built as well as their UTV line up then I would not hesitate. Not to mention MotoAlliance has awesome customer service as Pete the owner and his crew are great to work with.

I have been running a Smittybilt XC 10,000# on my '71 GMC for 5 or 6 years. I use it less than a dozen times a year and can remember about 6 times I really worked it on hard pulls. Keeping the connections and solenoid posts clean and supplying as much juice as possible to it seems to be a major key to keeping it, as well as any winch, from burning down. This is considered an entry level winch. I paid $300 new for it but it keeps working. I'd be afraid to bank the house on it but at this price it paid for its self the first year.

[72kool]

this is the one im currently thinking about getting

http://www.ebay.com/itm/VIPER-MAX-13...-/371490322585

[72kool]

my concern is the amp draw with it. it says it has an amp draw max of 390. that seems high for me and im concerned about having the proper alt. and anything else to operate it correctly. I also dont want to damage the vehicle by not having the correct parts and overloading the alternator

[jeffahart]

Originally Posted by 72kool

my concern is the amp draw with it. it says it has an amp draw max of 390. that seems high for me and im concerned about having the proper alt. and anything else to operate it correctly. I also dont want to damage the vehicle by not having the correct parts and overloading the alternator

Look into a hydraulic Mile Marker. Excellent winch, will run all day. Run it off your power steering pump. No battery drain. I gravitate to hydraulics. But for this truck I just got this one. An old hickey worm gear. I like it because it's period correct. I don't like it because it's electric.

But if you want a good winch for cheap.. not sure about that one. I think good will cost if you buy new.

[snj8198]

how do you use your vehicle? is this a serious mudder, rock crawler, or trail rig? how often do realistically think you'll use the winch?

[bilfman]

Costco sells a big inexpensive Champion winch.

[72kool]

Honestly this wont get alot of use. It is going to be our new (to us) family road trip vehicle. But will be my daily driver to work and plow truck. it has an electric winch on it now to run the plow but it is tired and underpowered. If i buy another winch, i want it to be a one time purchase and fit all needs. Also in the winter we pull alot of people from the ditch (live here all their lives and still cant winter drive) so want to have it if we need it when pulling out cars or when scoring on another truck

[snj8198]

Based on your description of use, I wouldn't spend big bucks. In fact, I wouldn't be scared of that Viper winch you're considering, especially at that price. I spent more for my Viper Elite 5000# than that. The solenoid block look like they are enclosed well. Without getting my hands on one I couldn't tell if they are actually sealed units but they look good by picture and again I have come to trust MotoAlliance.

For a complete setup I would run new heavy gauge wire, good end connectors and deep cycle battery. Connector cleaning should become a twice a year maintenance chore or more depending on how much mud, muck, snow, etc you find yourself getting into.

What alternator are you using now? I've used 10SI's plenty in the past but you'll want to raise your rpm's to 2,000rpm when winching and go in short pulls with rests in between. A jump to a 12SI is an easy upgrade for more current output if you like.

Also, not that you need to but I would swap on synthetic line merely for preference. I find synthetic more user friendly especially (forgive me here if this does not apply) for beginning enthusiasts who are unaware of some of wire ropes characteristics. But then that is an added cost where as you already have the wire with the original winch purchase. If you go synthetic line, and the winch is mounted out front on a bumper, then get one of MotoAlliance's winch covers to keep the sun off that syn line.

In final, I would rather have that winch you are looking at over the one I have now especially at that price.

Something to think about.

PS: after reading through the everything that's included with that winch it includes the mentioned cover and a remote! holy crap, I'd spring the extra dough for the syn line and be a happy wincher.

[72kool]

i appreciate all the information. From what I read about the viper, i dont think i could ask for more at that price and seems to fit my needs well. as far as the alternator goes, it is the stock 105 amp alternator. It has worked well with the old winch, but it was a small 2000# winch. I have used alot of winches on trailers and the one thats on there now but never for offroading

[snj8198]

I too have ran the 105A with both an Optima red top and a yellow top. Granted the yellow top would be better but I didn't have any problems with either battery. Remember, this is for typical side of the road stucks and general vehicle extraction, NOT for pulling a 6,000lb trail rig over an 8 foot high waterfall rock ledge like we see in Four Wheeler mags!

Depending on how bad the stuck is, idle the motor up to 2,000rpm and pull for 10-15 seconds or so then stop for a minute or so. you'll notice the truck starting to act up if you are getting low on voltage from too much load on the charging system.

To reiterate, this is not your best winch as you started the thread with but in terms of what you are looking at with that Viper, especially for price, you could do a lot worse.

Lastly, again, here's one with synthetic if you were to consider it.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/VIPER-MAX-13...3D371490322585

That syn line adds some cost but at least it's free shipping. Have you done a little wire rope vs synthetic line comparison?

[72kool]

haha yea i dont think i want to take this heavy beast up anything that serious...not even sure i could find anywhere in this part of the country like that..

i have not done a comparison of cable to syn.
I just seen the syn. when i started searching for a new winch. I like the idea of syn. over cable for the simple reason of no wires to stick you that one time you forgot your gloves. How do they perform against each other though? durability vs strength?

i think i will be very happy with a viper winch and will be plenty for my use. I wont ever take this into anything serious but its a,if I need it,i got it kinda thing.

Honestly if i go serious off roading, Id rather use my '01 durango. love that thing for its 4x4 abilities

[snj8198]

How do they perform against each other though? durability vs strength?

To keep them straight i'll call wire "cable" and synthetic "rope".

Anymore, strength wise they are quite the same granted "I think" rope tends to be a fraction/inch larger in diameter for the same load bearing but that might not be between brands. That said each has it's own durability clauses. As you know, cable can fray and a be a prick unlike line but if rope frays it becomes more of a weak spot for rope. Special precaution should be taken with both of course but I think rope needs a little more babying in that manner. There scuff sleeves are helpful with rope in the event it comes in contact with the ground, trees or obstacles when winching. (dont bend either around obstacles when winching and this wont be an issue!)

Cable stretches under load therefor it stores potential energy and can snap back if it breaks. Rope does not store energy so if it breaks the line will fall dead. Also with breakage, both can be fixed but if the break occurs mid line only the rope can be rebraided into itself and still be rolled back on the drum. For breaks at the end near the hook really doesn't matter for either as both can be rethimbled and continue their usage.

Rope is much lighter than cable but rope does not stand up to mud and sand as well as cable over time. The sand and dirt gets in between the rope fibers and sand papers then to breakage. This can happen with cable as well but cable can be maintenanced easier than rope. Also, keep the rope out of the sun, it will degrade the fibers as well.

Cable usually needs to be properly respooled onto the drum after each use. IIRC, roughly 500lbs should be kept on the cable during a respool. If not the lower wraps loosen and when the next load comes the upper wraps tighten and pinch into the lower wraps causing pinches and kinks in the cable and breaks in the wires leading to weak spots. This "seems" to happen less with rope and when it does happens, from my experiences, it causes much less negative affects. "Bird's nests", as they are called, can be a serious pain in the butt and if bad enough usually result in a guy needing to latch the cable onto a tree and use the vehicle to pull the line off the drum to perform a respool.

Lately, the biggest argument between synthetic rope dealers is heat generated in the drum during winching. The winch brake on many winches is located inside the drum and creates heat that can break down rope. I dont know percentages, but many syn ropes have a heat degradation temp of 150 degrees. So this has been a critical point between synthetic rope producers as to who manufactures a better rope product. I dont know how important this is for the casual user. Obviously, this is not a problem with cable.

Cable uses a roller fairlead, rope uses a hawse fairlead. Rope can use a new roller but dont use rope on a used roller fairlead. The cable scuffs, scratches and dents rollers creating sharp edges so if you swap a new rope on the nicked up roller it will damage the new rope. Personally I use hawse fairleads with rope and rollers with cable. This isn't a problem tho if you are buying a winch loaded with rope as it will usually come with a hawse.

OH! and price of course. Rope costs more as you see. I'd like winch companies to start selling winches without line at a base price and offer the buyer their choice for the additional cost.

Man, I better there are tons of other good comparisons that i am missing here.

Ummm?? Rope can be had in pretty colors?? if that's important

[72kool]

color matched rope to the vehicle is the most important issue when buying a winch!!

thank you for all the information. I dont really want to spend the extra it cost to have a rope line but at the same time, i want to buy this once and not have any regrets. I need to think about what will do best for me...also which color looks best with the red beast...

[snj8198]

Usually you match the purse with the shoes

Some match the rope with the truck color, others match the rope with trim or an accent on their rig. On mine I think I would go black to match my black wheels, but then my custom front bumper is all black so maybe red would really pop out. My rzr is all blacked out accept for red piping on the seats so I went with red rope on it. Just enough to tie it together. Hope it dont make me look fat!

The price for the rope adds an additional 1/3 of the cost to the winch purchase. If cash is a little tight honestly just stick with the cable and be done with it. Nothing sparks more confidence in a stuck motorist than a guy with leather gloves trudging through the deep snow with cable in hand! not a string.

[ranger danger]

Look at craigslist for a good used Warn. You just can not go wrong with a Warn. A few years ago, I got a Warn 8274 on C/L for $150!! Clean it, change the oil in it and run the dog snot out of it! They run for ever.

[snj8198]

8274's are awesome but that is starting to catch on so the price is reflecting that. $150 for a build able one is great, and awesome for a running one.

[ranger danger]

Originally Posted by snj8198

8274's are awesome but that is starting to catch on so the price is reflecting that. $150 for a build able one is great, and awesome for a running one.

The one I got was for $150 was in excellent condition. I changed the oil and am running it on my jeep now.

I just took a quick look at my local C/L. This is what I found. The first is a 5000 for $75. The second is an 8274 for $500.
http://sacramento.craigslist.org/pts/5393175777.html

http://modesto.craigslist.org/pts/5366691616.html

[snj8198]

ya, $500 for that condition is what I'm seeing around here too. Pity. Since Warn reintroduced the winch as the 8274-50 some years ago the price has gone up on those too. About $1,900 new. Ridiculous.

['63GENIII]

The 8274 is a wicked good winch! I ran the one that I just gave away on two trucks that Ive had including the '63. That said... Ive gone hydraulic. 8 months ago, I found a Mile Marker 9000# on CL that came loaded with 2 wired remotes, 1 wireless remote, synthetic rope and the original wire, a 50' very heavy duty pull strap / tree saver, roller and 2 hawse fairleads, hoses and a cover for 450. I used it frequently for skidding logs to the truck where I can buck them up for firewood. All I can say is that it works flawlessly! 1 # 12 gauge wire on a 10 amp fuse and I never have a concern of cables, connections, battery or duty cycle that can stop my winching when I really need it.
Approximately 2 weeks later, I found another one for 375 again on CL so I grabbed that one for the rear of the truck. Its a 10,500#. Haven't gotten around to installing it yet. Just couldn't pass it up.
Ive found that a lot of people get the MMs new (about 1k +$) and either don't use them like they thought they would or never really install them. The last one spent 5 years on the front of a truck with no power steering lines connected to it. I think the hydraulic lines may scare some people. I seem them for reasonable money frequently.
Electric or hydraulic, which ever way you go, be patient and keep an eye on CL. You'll see a lot of people selling for what they bought them for. Avoid those. Keep any eye out for a lightly used, well known name brand winch that you can get parts for should you ever need. Warn, Mile Marker, Ramsey are all that come to mind at the moment. Pretty sure that my Warn and the Mile Markers weren't made offshore either.
As a side note, the 8274 that I gave to my wife cousin is headed to work in Yellowstone. He's a horse shoer. Im sure he will use it to its potential and it will work reliably for him as it had for me for the 10 years that I ran it. That winch is nearly 20 years old now, ugly and beaten but works like a Swiss watch. You definitely get what you pay for and patiently hunt for.
Good luck in your hunt!

[snj8198]

That's a great point you make '63GEN; for long consistent pulls like skidding logs or any long interval work, I too would use a hydraulic clutch. The charge system can't keep up with that kind of demand. But for occasional use I think the ease of installment of the electric winch is more convenient. As you said, many might get intimidated with hose routeing and how to plug into the power steering box. If I had a real work horse rig I would run PTO and shafts out both ends of the truck but I dont have any practical use for it right now. hmmm right now i dont but....

['63GENIII]

Originally Posted by snj8198

That's a great point you make '63GEN; for long consistent pulls like skidding logs or any long interval work, I too would use a hydraulic clutch. The charge system can't keep up with that kind of demand. But for occasional use I think the ease of installment of the electric winch is more convenient. As you said, many might get intimidated with hose routeing and how to plug into the power steering box. If I had a real work horse rig I would run PTO and shafts out both ends of the truck but I dont have any practical use for it right now. hmmm right now i dont but....

You hit the nail on the head there Steve! I totally agree that the intended use should be the primary consideration for the purchase. I tend to go a little overboard when looking for stuff like this so I may not be the best voice of reason for COOL to listen to.
I also picked up a PTO for the 205.. Trying to figure out what Im gonna use that for. Thats a different discussion though. lol

[Zoomad75]

Keep an eye on Craigslist for sure. Used Warns, Ramsey and other established name brands come up on a regular basis. I got lucky. A customer bought a Jeep TJ Wrangler from my dealer and it had a Warn xd9000i on it. It didn't work and he didn't want it so I ended up with it for nothing. Turns out all that was wrong was one of the four solenoids was inop. Got another one from our local NAPA and bingo, it's working again. It was ratty so I cleaned it up, regreased it and shot it with my new favorite black satin tractor paint.

Came out pretty nice I think!


We had another customer in the shop with a 79 k20 that had an old broken Ramsey on it that didn't want to fix it and just got us a Harbor Freight 12k winch to put in it's place. We did as he asked and he let us keep the Ramsey. My tech was able to get it working again.

So watch for ones that are broken, like it was said before the main established brands still make parts for most of these and they were built to be serviced, not like the cheap chinese stuff. Most people that have a broken one and don't know what to do to fix it will unload it for cheap.

['63GENIII]

I like to call it "reduce, reuse, recycle". And I'm a cheap sob! Nice work Rob. Killar score!

[snj8198]

I also picked up a PTO for the 205.. Trying to figure out what Im gonna use that for.

naaa, you don't have any use for that pto... i guess i could take it off your hands

looks good Rob!