s10 AD swap, why not 4x4 and why not 2nd gen?

[jhnpldng]

Been reading over all the S10 to AD frame swap threads here and what I can find elsewhere. The only downside I've read about using a 4wd frame is that the torsion bars get in the way. In the way of what? They don't get in the way on the S10s and it's a complete frame swap so they would just go right along with it. Is it just that they're not friendly for bagging/slamming? The rear axle would already be the preferred width. The truck wouldn't look 4wd with no locking hubs. The transfer case shifter would have to be dealt with but I don't think it would be a big deal. We have hills, mud and occasional snow and ice here so it would be pretty handy and could still be lower than the stock AD.

Next is the 2nd gen S10s. Has anyone done one of those? I'd have to bring the harness and ecm/pcm over but that doesn't bother me. I've done that sort of thing before.

I just bought 4 ADs, two with titles, and already have a 85 S10 ext cab 4x4 so I was thinking of reusing the frame/engine/tranny for the first AD and keeping it as a long bed. The downside is that the S10 is a 2.8 but it runs great and has a good 700R4.

For the second one, I'd like to have the 4.3 vortec in it but not too many 1st gen S10s had them. Lots of blazers did but the wheel base is wrong on those but then again, a 4 door blazer is 107" and short bed AD is 112. Then again, the stock ADs already look like the axle's too far forward so.... I don't know. Not sure what other issues the blazers have for the swap. I know most people don't like the CPI but I like them. The spider injectors are pretty cheap as rebuilts from rockauto but half the time the problem is the fuel pressure regulator and that can be gotten separate now for 30 bucks. I had a 4.3 cpi in a 63 gmc and it looked like it belonged in there due to the plenum almost matching the bump in the firewall.
I suppose I could find a 1st gen S10 long bed with 4.3 tbi, 1st gen blazer with 4.3 cpi and do double swapping but that's a lot of work. Either that or just wait til I find a 1st gen pickup that has the cpi.

So does anyone have any experience with the S10 swap that's not strictly 2wd 1st gen?

[msaintg]

I did a lot of what you describe in this post.... I used a '96 S10 4x4 blazer in my swap.
I think most people that talk about an s10 swap are mostly referring to a frame swap so they stick with the 1st gen stuff. I think they are missing all of the advantages of an s10 swap if they limit themselves that way. my plan was to totally commit to using the entire s10 so that I will never have compatibility issues down the road.

1 advantage you missed is the wider stance of the front suspension on the 4x4.
1 disadvantage you missed is the drivetrain needs to be moved back 5" on the S10 frame when doing this swap and the transfer case gets into the cross support for the torsion arms. I had to modify the cross support to clear the transfer case, then I changed my mind and converted it to 2x4, so I didn't need the modification.

IMO the 2.8l V6 is a total DOG of a motor. I had an S10 with that motor and I hated it! I absolutely love the 4.3l V6 (210 hp stock). If I had it to do over again, I would have used a '98 or newer S10 for the swap.

[jhnpldng]

Now that you mention it, I did read about the transfer case issue. I agree about having one donor as much as possible. Much easier years down the road when something needs replaced. I'm still keeping my eye out for something with a 4.3 but I'm on a low budget. Actually found two S10 ext cabs with one being 4wd for 1k but it's pretty far. Haven't called on them to see if 2.8 or 4.3. This S10 I have has a brand new carb on it and actually goes pretty good but with the heavier truck body, it probably wouldn't be too impressive. I'd like to keep it as is but the interior's pretty trashed so if I find something with a 4.3 and nice interior, Id have two reasons to buy it. I'm also watching for 2wd long bed standard cab for the easiest swap. This first one is going to be for selling and most people are looking for slammed 2wd patina so I should just go that way. I just don't want to run out of funds.

Story time. Several years ago I had a blazer with the 2.8 tbi 5spd and pulled a 20' trailer with a 1000lb load from MO to FL. What a long slow trip. It would barely accelerate on level ground but if I had hit any head wind, we might have had to sit out the wind. LOL This carbed one seems quite a bit faster. Must be the glass packs someone put on it. LOL

Didn't realize the front was wider on the 4wd.

Something else I've considered is the trailblazer. Dimensions seem to be right on and most had that vortec 4200 so an AD could still be a straight six. Gawd those engines are ugly though. They didn't even make the plastic covers attractive. The trailblazers are still pretty pricey though. People want 2500 plus for one that's got 250k plus miles. I need to go measure my neighbors. Wheel base and track seem good from what I've found but the frame rails might be too wide for the narrow AD cab.

My eventual goal is a 58-59 Apache 3/4 ton 4x4 with a 5.7 vortec. Use a 98 Silverado for the frame, drivetrain, computer, whole 9 yards. There's some guys on cpacific that have perfected a marine 5.7 vortec intake swap allowing the use of standard bosch injectors so that injector size can be increased for a bigger cam, exhaust etc. Tuning them with either hptuners or another prog I can't think of the name of.

These ADs are my way of working up to the Apache project.

I see you have a build thread with the blazer frame swap so I'm headed off to read that.

Thanks

[joedoh]

I used a 99 sonoma (s10) 2wd with the explicit goal of reusing as much of the donor as I could on the 1947 GMC I swapped. I used the drivetrain, radiator, pedals, harnesses, switches, and computers (there are two), even the door pins and the bed floor.

the advantages of the 98+ second gen are:
the high pressure fuel system
the bussed electrical system, any options just plug right in and get programmed to the BCM. This includes LS motor swaps, just use the LS engine harness and reprogram the 4.3 PCM
the factory key security still works, that gave me piece of mind with how popular these trucks are and how easy it is to break into one

the disadvantages I noted are:
the pedal assembly is cast aluminum, I designed a mount though that mounts the pedals and the 98+ steering column, its acually more graceful than using the 82-93 pedal assembly.
the headlight wiring in the 98+ requires two separate headlight bulbs, or a complex relay setup. The headlight system rests at 12v+ instead of ground, and varies the ground voltage for daytime running lights, so using a 3 wire standard headlight is pretty complicated. Going forward I will either use the main headlight for lowbeam and an accessory vintage fog light for highbeam/DRL, or will source a plastic 7" headlight with two bulbs.

There was plenty of underhood and underdash room for wiring harnesses and fuse/relay boxes and PCM/BCM. I didnt use the HVAC wiring or wiper wiring on the 47 but I will on the 49 I am building now.

I see you have a 60-66 in your avatar, I did a 98+ s10 swap on one of those too, using the HVAC and wipers wiring. drove like a modern truck. Had the same goofy headlight problems on that one too.

[mr48chev]

I'd think that the perceived disadvantage of the torsion bar front end is that there may be clearance problems when running a V8 They are right were guys want to put headers most of the time.

I scrapped out a 86 S-10 Blazer a few years ago that I got free before scrap metal went sky high and only wanted the rear axle (which was bad) and after getting the engine and transfer out it looked like there were a lot of brackets to be cleaned up if you used it for a two wheel drive swap removing the front third member and half shafts.

On thing about it the trans and transfer would be easier to pull with an AD body swap as the first thing in the manual to pull them out of an S-10 4x4 is "remove left side body to frame bolts, loosen right side bolts and raise left side of cab high enough to put a 2x4 between mounts and cab.

There used to be an AD that showed up at the Vintiques of Yakima Northwest Nationals every year that was said to be on a mid 70's Jeep Wagonair (sp?) chassis complete with solid front axle and 4 wheel drive that sat just a bit below stock height of an AD but not real low. The only way you noticed was by seeing the front hubs.

The later S-10 two or four wheel drive trucks are still too popular as daily drivers around here and the price is probably a lot higher than in many areas of the country making them a bit spendy to buy for frame swaps unless some part of the drive train has broken or the body is beat to death. The farmers also buy them for field trucks and their workers beat them to death out on the farms to the point nothing is usable.

[joedoh]

Originally Posted by mr48chev

I'd think that the perceived disadvantage of the torsion bar front end is that there may be clearance problems when running a V8 They are right were guys want to put headers most of the time.

I think maybe you missed msaintg post, its not a perceived problem, it is a problem when you move the engine back the transfer case gets into the torsion mounts. he knows because he did one.

[Refuse1]

jnpldng mentioned a Trailblazer and I have not seen much talk about an AD on a Trailblazer. My research shows that the front track is 63.1". Anyone know if the TB chassis is too wide for an AD truck ?

Thanks,

[joedoh]

yes, it is too wide. the AD one that I remember on here is actually a panel and he had to use big truck (1 1/2 ton and up) front fenders to make even the stock high offset front wheels fit.
http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...348244&page=21


other guys have done the trailblazer on TF trucks, I have seen a truck and a panel in the project files.

[Refuse1]

Thanks joedoh.

I'm not sure why I didnt look at this first, but the answer is black and white. (highlighted in yellow)

[jhnpldng]

Yeah I did some more research on the trailblazer and it doesn't look good. The frame is very wide and the frame goes up quite high on boths ends and the front upper a-frame mounts are like a foot high off the frame. The TB body mounts would be under the AD running boards. Inner front fender wells would have to be custom made and then the bed floor would have to be raised as if it had a c notched frame for a slammed vehicle. There's pics of a oem trailblazer frame replacement here.

Pic #10 shows how wide the frame is compared to the body and these AD cabs are narrow which is why seats are hard to find. Also, you can see the upper front suspension.


2wd S10 is the best which is why everyone uses it. I kind of liked the 4wd frame with 4x4 components removed as you get the torsion bars which makes minor front height adjustment easy. They sell torsion bar keys to make for a little more adjustment. Shame the engine/tranny has to go back to where the transfer case hits the rear torsion bar mounts. I know they make clocking rings but I suppose that would either make the tc hit the ground or poke up through the floor. Not to mention throwing your gear oil level off compared to the fill and drain holes.

Moving the cab forward won't work because it would throw all the axle/tire to fender alignments off. Rear axle's not too hard to move but front is. Might has well build a custom frame in which case you could put anything under it.

2wd it is. Thanks everyone.

[Refuse1]

I think you have pretty much covered it jnpldng.

Too wide.

[jhnpldng]

Originally Posted by joedoh

yes, it is too wide. the AD one that I remember on here is actually a panel and he had to use big truck (1 1/2 ton and up) front fenders to make even the stock high offset front wheels fit.
http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...348244&page=21


other guys have done the trailblazer on TF trucks, I have seen a truck and a panel in the project files.

See, that doesn't look all that difficult. Just not the EZ S10 swap that's so well documented.

Originally Posted by Refuse1

I think you have pretty much covered it jnpldng.

Too wide.

Still got it stuck in my head so there may be no help for me. LOL
I have a line on an 04 trailblazer with 130k. Was in a slow roll over so the ins co totalled it. Has an immaculate leather interior and was well maintained.
On of the 4 ADs I just bought is a 2 ton so it has fenders and hood for big tires. Granted the TB would be a better donor for a burb but I'm thinking I could snub the nose up as much as possible, set the cab higher than the above linked burb thread and do an ext cab. Would almost look like a COE.
Would be easier than this Clint Eastwood Gauntlet Style Classic Cruiser.

[pugs]

did this a few years ago tf on a 4x s10 chassis with inline 6. removed all the 4xx front diff to make it a 2wd

[mr48chev]

That's how I figured most guys would use the 4x4 chassis. Get one that the engine, trans and transfer had been pulled from and remove the front diff and half shafts.

[MalibuSSwagon]

http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=372267