Cool Air intake design options

[R&B51]

51AD 3100 Resto mod build. Could not find any discussions on this so I'm throwing out the question and respect your input. I have a 2005 C6 Corvette rolling chassis and driveline and tear down on truck is complete. I am in the custom frame construction phase.
Trying to plan the design of the front end and considering how I will make a cold air intake box. Looks to me like the Corvette intake which usually rolls off the front of the engine and downward then takes air from underneath the front bumper area. Any ideas or suggestions on how to configure this cold air intake to grab air in a high-pressure environment on the front of the pick up?
Possibly some custom alternative bumper filler panel or air dam placed back below-behind bumper or pull out of a wheel well?
Seems like some high pressure areas are right on the front lower part of these trucks and base of windshield.
Another option, possibly repurpose the cowl vent at base of windshield? I was planning on closing that up but might be able to use it for a different purpose like this. Maybe even use the panel that comes up like a scoop or reconfigure it to grab more air?

[HUSSEY]

I remember seeing this a couple years ago on a build thread but I doubt I'd be able to find the photos.

The builder had cut a hole on the inner fender behind the grill below the turn signal. That then routed to a filter box and finally to the engine. It wasn't really noticeable being behind the grill.

[R&B51]

Hussey
Sounds like a great idea! I will definitely look at that as one of the top options. I would not have thought of that (that's one of the great things about access to this site) and it sounds like it would solve the problem if I could make the intake tubing work out. I will search again and see if I can find that thread.

[jweb]

Originally Posted by HUSSEY

I remember seeing this a couple years ago on a build thread but I doubt I'd be able to find the photos.

The builder had cut a hole on the inner fender behind the grill below the turn signal. That then routed to a filter box and finally to the engine. It wasn't really noticeable being behind the grill.

That's exactly what I did. I ran 4" tubing through the inner fender and mounted a cone style filter in front of the tire. Then I made a sheetmetal box to fit around it. I cut a large hole in the front of the inner fender behind the grill, below the turn signal for a cold air inlet.

This wouldn't work very well if you plan to have a really low truck.

[R&B51]

"Cool" idea jweb! Any pics of your box/install? Removable for filter access or hatch door? Pull the tire to service?

[jweb]

Originally Posted by R&B51

"Cool" idea jweb! Any pics of your box/install? Removable for filter access or hatch door? Pull the tire to service?

The box is attached to the inner fender and removable. I have to take the tire off to get to it. I don't have any pictures, I will try to get some. I put my truck in storage for winter.

The hardest part was cutting a hole in the side of the inner fender. I started with a 4" circle I cut out of tape. Stuck that on the curved surface and it got me close to what I needed.

I used a velocity stack in the hole behind the grill
http://www.siliconeintakes.com/air-f...720980659ecaf8

I also used an AEM dry flow filter. They make a long narrow filter that may have worked better, but I already had this.
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B000ED7YCA..._t1_B004HORV1G

[R&B51]

Thanks jweb, your work on this really gives me a head start on the project. Reading about the velocity stack, it looks like that's designed to go directly on the end of the intake tube instead of a filter, is that true? Did you just place your stack on the front of your box to increase air velocity into it so your filter can pick it up? With this create a high-pressure environment in the box better than just an open front on it? I think I have seen some pics of great looking applications where the vehicle had four headlights and they used one of the highbeam holes for an intake like this leaving two head lights on one side and one on the other with a blacked out into a hole velocity stack intake beside it. I always assumed the intake to being was connected directly to the back of that hole.

[R&B51]

Jweb,
I forgot to ask. I like the stance and height of your truck. Do you have any idea how many inches ground clearance you have on the front bumper, running boards, rear fenders? I'm doing the frame design work and trying to get a ballpark on this for my 51.

[jweb]

Originally Posted by R&B51

Thanks jweb, your work on this really gives me a head start on the project. Reading about the velocity stack, it looks like that's designed to go directly on the end of the intake tube instead of a filter, is that true? Did you just place your stack on the front of your box to increase air velocity into it so your filter can pick it up? With this create a high-pressure environment in the box better than just an open front on it? I think I have seen some pics of great looking applications where the vehicle had four headlights and they used one of the highbeam holes for an intake like this leaving two head lights on one side and one on the other with a blacked out into a hole velocity stack intake beside it. I always assumed the intake to being was connected directly to the back of that hole.

The velocity stack is designed to be used instead of a filter. I just didn't want a rough opening behind the grill, so that's why I used it. It seems like it would help with air flow also, but I cant tell for sure. You can barely see it but it looks nice.

Also my running boards are 9" at the front and 9 1/2" at the rear. I will check the bumper heights next time I'm there and get some pics of the intake setup. It might be awhile, life is a little hectic right now.

[R&B51]

Thanks jweb

[1-ton of fun]

re-purposing the cowl vent for a cold air inlet for the motor is brilliant! i might try that on mine instead of just sealing it up.

[joedoh]

if you pick up air at the high pressure cowl, make sure you have a particle separator, a joggle in the pipe that lets the air bounce and the particles deflect, or you will just soak through your filter and ingest water or debris that way. if you look at the chevelle cowl induction path you can see this feature. if I understand jwebs description of his setup, it sounds like the air comes in at an angle, and that will keep out the water and debris. air can change direction in an instant but inertia makes it hard for any particles to do it.

modern cars, especially corvettes, have well sealed engine bays and air directors that dont allow a lot of turbulent flow in the engine compartment, the goal is to reduce drag that robs mileage. your AD will never have this problem, there will always be a lot of airflow in the engine compartment. for this reason, and I know this will be unpopular but I will say it anyway, there is almost no difference between picking up intake air outside the engine bay or picking it up inside. yes, everyone knows that colder air is denser than warm air, BUT pressure has a higher influence on density than temperature ever could, and no matter where the air is, inside or out, its at the same atmospheric pressure. also, because of the unsealed engine compartment the temp difference between underhood and ambient once you are moving is nil.

ram air pressure needs to be at much higher speeds than you will ever see in a truck, and even a corvette. the velocity of the air in the intake will be higher than the velocity of the truck even at 100 mph, so there will be no "pressure". that is not opinion, its physics.

[R&B51]

Joedoh,
Wise words. I had spaced on thinking about water as an issue, good point.
I really like the idea of a high-pressure intake point (cold air is just a plus) and I guess either the 'behind the grill fender box' or the cowl intake would accomplish that. Don't know if you can trust some of these statements but seems like people feel adding that type of intake and better breathing can add significant horsepower. I thought since I was going to have to work out the intake design anyway, figuring some way to make it happen would be worthwhile. I'd now design in a kink to kick water out if I use one of those options. The Chevelle design suggests cowl intake should best have the opening pointing backwards. The factory AD truck vent design looks great to me when it's manually opened pointing forward. Rear faced opening using the Chevron shaped hole would require a custom intake and might not look so good backwards. Having had rusty cowl vent areas on trucks in the past, I was really looking forward to welding it up and getting rid of water coming in that area. Kicking water out and down through a box up in that front in fender area sounds better to me.
I will have to figure out something that is doable with the room that's left in the engine compartment without too much gymnastics.
Thanks for your input.

[jweb]

Joedoh is right. I highly doubt it increased my hp. On my original intake setup the filter was wedged between my brake booster and header. Even with all the heat it had before I can't imagine it made any difference in power on a stock ls1.

I mainly modified it for looks, and to make room for some coil covers. Those are the next pieces I will make when I have time.

[joedoh]

Originally Posted by R&B51

Don't know if you can trust some of these statements but seems like people feel adding that type of intake and better breathing can add significant horsepower.

the small gains people get from replacing the factory intake come from the lower restriction and straight tubes in the intake path. the design engineers who work at car manufacturers arent idiots, they wont leave efficiency (hp or mpg) just lying around for the shadetree guy to find with a cold air intake. but the design engineers ARE usually constrained by all the other systems grabbing space underhood, and constrained by marketing requirements for noise levels and ease of service and part longevity. so the lower restriction straight tubes will get you something, but its never going to be a lot.

there is no such thing as a ram air effect at low speeds, interestingly enough any ram air increase in efficiency at 170mph would probably be completely offset by the increased drag of the ram air system. which is why the intakes are usually taking air from a high pressure area instead of out in the wind themselves.

the cold air vs hot air effect is very very small, so small as to be challenging to attribute to any one change, it could be easily attributed to minute changes in ambient temperature between runs.

[R&B51]

Thanks men.
I'll focus on making a clean looking unit in the space I have using your advice.

[solidaxel]

Did you consider turning the intake 180* and using the cold air vent or ducting it thru the cab, or was that what you mentioned above?
We tried a custom intake but we did not have enough "straight" pipe for the MAF to get a good signal, so on to step #3!

[R&B51]

Solidaxel,
Nice clean job, like the truck. Didn't know you could reverse the intake but wondered about that. Mine is frame off in parts and I need to go over to a friends to sit and look at his to figure some. Pretty cool to have so many options.

[solidaxel]

Thanks, the truck is on the road every day !!

Is your throttle body drive by wire?

[R&B51]

So far. Bought the C6 as all included chassis driveline package with all electrical, mechanical plus steering column. They just took damaged body off a 20K low mileage totaled car tested mechanical and made sure there was no structural damage then left 4-2' frame chunks in corners. Cleveland power and performance. Had a video of it running and everything.
I had it shipped as a roller and all else is bubble packed in boxes. They were great to work with and said they do this all the time. Even ready with phone support to help with the hook up. He said it was pretty much ready to assemble and provide power for it add fluids and go. We'll see about that!
I have a lot to learn. I've top to bottom restored couple of early mustangs and a 69 C/10 with my own engine and tranny rebuilds plus all the mechanicals and body/interior work but I've never done a Frankenstein like this. The C/10 what is the bait that got me hooked on early Chevy pick ups and I traded it and got some cash for a really clean old 51 in stock condition. I stripped it down and gave all about the body panels and cab with support gear away. The old rebuilds were simple. Hoping by doing this total all in one swap it might be less complicated on the mechanicals if I just had to provide power and assemble it. The complicated part has been the custom frame to bolt it all up to and set the body on top of. I'm in the middle of that right now.
It was pretty cool. I found a guy who came out with what is called a FARO arm and he used it to map the exact 3-D positional relationship of all of the suspension connection points bolt angles on the Corvette rolling chassis, then he scanned the entire bare frame of the pick up. I will try to take all that data in a frame design software package I found and lay them over each other so that I can create a cad design for a frame that integrates the two vehicles. I'm using round tube. While searching for particulars on getting this done, I saw one like I had been planning to make on a website by a company called Ironworks and that gave me some confidence that this plan could work.
If it works, I will have the cad design for the frame with all the C6 suspension pick up points along with all the body pick up points on the truck and would like to build more of them using the same plan. Will have to see how it drives. Using Corvette components, from what I can figure, this thing will weigh 500-800 pounds less than the Corvette it came from. Believe it or not, the Corvette and old 51 A.D. truck weighs about the same off the assembly line. These were strong light weight workhorses. I'm getting rid of everything except the body and all that steel weighs a whole lot more than the all aluminum driveline going back in. Modern performance with the old-school look on top. The main giveaway will likely be the look and position of the rims and wheels. I'm not going to slam it so that I will have more wheel opening to work with but it will be lowered. Corvettes are so wide, I think I can just barely get them in there and likely a mini tub on the back.
This intake question is one of the integration points. It came with the stock intake but I doubt I will be able to use it. I like the look of what you did and we will see what kind of room I have when I get it all in there.

[solidaxel]

The hard part as I see it after building many hot rods is the chassie and geometry so I leave that up to the professionals.
You seem to have that part well covered.
The easy part of this equation is the power plant......... when you have finished and look back and drive it you will agree!
I am on my 4th LS swap and there were some learning curves to overcome, but it gets easier with each one.
I felt the hardest part of the engine and trans swap was the computer and wiring so I left that up to Howell Engine Development, and it was a true Plug-N-Play, with a two wire hook up, to get the engine running.
There are specs on the computer for wiring and what to eliminate but I thought the easiest way was to go with Howell for a complete package.
The advantage to the LS platform over the early sbc is many and you will sone find out!
Here is my next project like you it is Corvette engine and suspension in a round tube chassie but I am going to "upgrade" my 62 Corvette and bring it up to date

[joedoh]

Originally Posted by R&B51

It was pretty cool. I found a guy who came out with what is called a FARO arm and he used it to map the exact 3-D positional relationship of all of the suspension connection points bolt angles on the Corvette rolling chassis, then he scanned the entire bare frame of the pick up. I will try to take all that data in a frame design software package I found and lay them over each other so that I can create a cad design for a frame that integrates the two vehicles. I'm using round tube.

neat idea! you should look up a guy named frizzlefry on here, he did almost this same thing (complete c5 chassis and drivetrain) under a 63? C10. it came out pretty low even without slamming it.

when I worked aerospace engineering I did a project to replace wingtip fairings on a piston aircraft, we used a faro arm to scan the tips and get the true dimensions and design the fairings from that. neat system, looks like spray painting on the computer screen as you "spray" the scanner over the part. cant imagine the size of the arm needed to get a whole chassis! I have a video of the process but its considered intellectual property. in fact I worked with the former engineering director of faro at my last job.

[R&B51]

I will look him up.
He let me hang out and watch the mapping process. He hot glued ping pong balls in a half dozen places on the chassis and map them for reference points, he was able to map about half of it in one position, then he moved the whole unit. He rescanned the balls that he could reach and then mapped the rest of it. I guess that allowed him to re-create a full chassis in space.
He had to take the raw data and create files that would import into common software cad design programs. I've been talking with some people called bend tech and they are willing to take the data and throw it into their software to see if it will work. If it will, I'll buy the software and design the frame in between those pick up points and suspension points. I would be glad to let a local shop fab the frame but haven't found many people interested in it and the ones who were were too expensive. I may end up making a frame table and constructing it myself. I'll probably just tack it and then I have a relative who can weld it.
Once it is cad designed, it would likely be universal for all the C6 Corvettes and most of the advanced design pick ups. It would be a great thing to share because there are so many are both out there. That's assuming this whole crazy plan works and it's great to drive.

[joedoh]

sounds neat! frizzle stretched his original corvette chassis 7"

http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=179289

that guy is a font of good ideas, he did a 67-72 "tahoe" shortening a suburban, an s2000 powered sunbeam. if you can get yours done with a frame build I bet you could sell a couple to guys.

[R&B51]

This one is college son and I project. Idea in my head was make a few more for me and son in laws each with a twist to suit and have an AD fleet! Maybe track day races local speedway!
Other options include B body x frame like "Corpala".