Value with / without SPID on glovebox door

[CS1972]

I stumbled on an interesting truck, a 71 Cheyenne Super short box which is in excellent shape, BUT the doors are 72’s, a few other minor issues and the SPID was removed for painting (interior, exterior, engine compartment and underneath). He said he put the 72 doors on because they were much nicer than the 71 originals. The price the guy is asking reflects what “he has seen on Mecum and Barrett Jackson” and that “69-72’s are red hot in the market”. But in my opinion “those trucks” probably had some provenance which proves that the truck was originally built that way. Without any SPID or sales documentation anyone can build a “CST” or “Cheyenne Super” and claim it as “original”. So, my question to the forum is “how much value do you think is lost when the SPID and/or supporting sale documentation is not available to prove what you’re selling is what was sold new”? Or for that matter, does most people who are interested in these even care? The asking price of $25K just seems high to me – based on what I saw while the truck was parked (I left my name and number and we’ve talked a couple times). I hope to go see the truck by the end of this weekend (now with buyers eyes vs the look it over – nice truck but he’ll probably not sell it eyes).
Also, I’ve searched the forum for “Coil vs Leaf” comments and actually was not aware that short boxes could come with leaf springs until this 71 came up for sale. From what I have read the general consensus seems to be: coils for light duty hauling, more ride comfort and leaf springs for heavier duty usage and not bad ride comfort, but not as good as the coils. I’m all about the ride quality so I’m a little concerned about the leaf springs.

[dmjlambert]

My opinion: SPID is a non-issue. If the truck had one, you still would have no way of knowing if it was the original or a well-done remake which are commonly available. You can buy the truck and have one made with whatever options you want it to show, like the rare Corvette engine, and ejection seats, which you can then claim you had them removed because you don't think those are safe. On a well done truck, you're not going to know if it really is a 71, nor will you know if it was sold as a Cheyenne Super, nor will you know if it was originally a short bed (hint, it most likely wasn't). If you like the truck, you should go for it, just buy it. Go with your gut. The time and materials put into it, if it is a nice truck, can easily make it worth that amount, if you want a truck that is ready to just get in and drive and you don't want to find an old original and build it yourself.

For me the bigger turn off would be the chrome flying saucer type air cleaner and non-Quadrajet carburetor, rather than the (probably non-original) leaf springs. It didn't take me long to spend well over $5K on engine and transmission and brakes just to get to the point of having a mostly stock rust bucket worth $1800 to drive around (daily). Oh, forgot, mine is a long bed, so it isn't worth $1800 just yet, probably worth just $1200 until I cut it down and get a nice new SPID, then it will be worth $1800. :-) Just look at what new trucks are selling for now so you can figure out what a vehicle is worth. It will end up selling for what the market will bear, if he wants to sell at all.

[CS1972]

I definitely want something is drive-able, mostly stock and that will only require a few things here and there that I can do as I have time. I've been the guy who put untold hours into something + a lot of money and then sell for a lot less. I had fun doing it and learned a lot, but I don't want to head down that path again. One thing is almost certain, I WILL sell it someday and I have found that good solid information/documentation will always sell faster and bring more money. Not to say no one will buy it without it, but it does make a huge difference as evidenced with my latest sale of my 89 Mustang. I will admit that the scariest aspect of the truck is the leaf springs, when he told me that over the phone I immediately thought "Non-stock - Frankenstein truck", but then after looking thru the sales literature it does show it as an option on short box trucks. Not sure how many (%) have this option though.

[Already Gone]

My 2 cents. he first thing I would do is verify if it has been cut down or not. If it has 3 stake holes on each side along the top of the box, its been cut. Also crawl under it or put it on a hoist and see if there is evidence of the frame being cut. The flags for me on this one is when the seller told you he changed the door panels cause the 72 's are nicer, which they are, but its the rare person that will do that. Old cynical me is thinking he put the 72 doors on cause the original 71 doors were rusted out. The other thing is when he mentioned Barrett-Jackson and Mecum with red hot pricing and of course the short boxes bring the big money at those auctions.Now with all that being said if the seller has owned the truck for 15/20 years and still has the original doors tucked away on his property I would be starting to think the truck is original.

[mike16]

different vehicles have different values. if you have a beater that will never be restored then its value is in its versitility. not a sticker on a glove box. A restorable one has a different value because whats on the spid determines if and to what degree it gets restored. A fully restored truck , The spid is part of that value. It supports the justification to what degree to restore a truck. On an abosolutely origonal untouched low miles origonal it has a very great value, not only does it confirm the authenticity of the truck but often the patina /provenance as well.

Blank Spid stickers are being reproduced, so you can if your clever and rich build what you want and pass it off as origonal as well. so ultimately the only spid that matters is the one that represents the origonal trucks. but even the patina can be faked. So ... additional paperwork from previous owners and origonal sales documents become move valuable .

regardless, spids are being printed so value is an efemeral intangible subjective thing, cash is not.

[tristan]

I wouldn't pay a premium for any purportedly stock shortbox without a SPID, particularly any up-optioned model like a Cheyenne or a big block. Anyone who can't tell a repop SPID from a 45 year old original one isn't looking very hard.

[special-K]

It depends on if the value is based on it being an original truck. Then, no SPID kills not only it's value but it kills my desire. I would never base my decision to pay $25k for a truck on the words of the seller. And if I see discrepancies between what they say and what I see I lose all interest unless it's so cheap it doesn't matter.

[52napco]

1971 supers are rarely seen...assume its a custom deluxe and pay custom deluxe pirce without proof. personally I would be very skeptical.

[CS1972]

First, I appreciate the input as it gives me multiple opinions that I had not thought of and better prepares me for the inspection. I've been copy/pasting into by own personal "cheat sheet" information found in various discussions here on the forum so I have all the information with me while I'm there. I'm calling today to see if I can look at the truck Friday, Saturday or Sunday (about 2 1/2 hrs away). I'll keep you posted and upload pics once done (whether I buy it or not as someone else may want to). I feel the missing SPID is not a deal killer, but would be very nice to have. Being a authentic short box is my primary concern at this point. I'll be crawling underneath with the flashlight to inspect everything. I like the idea of asking if he still has the original doors, that will re-enforce the story he told and I would try to work the doors into the deal (even if they're rusty). He did text me late last night that he had changed out the Turbo 350 for the Turbo 400 transmission as "he likes those much better".

[leddzepp]

Mecum and Barrett Jackson are worlds apart from a private seller. Tell him if he wants that kind of money he needs to sell it through one of those auctions.

[mike16]

remember tht tuck that did not even have the inner rocker panels welded in. It started at 117K...... ans we were the philistines!

Its easy to tell an origonal spid just a it is easy to fake one.

we keep forgetting this has all already been done in the corvette end of the hobby, so we know where this is going

[Coley]

Ok, where to start....sort of like a mosquito in a nudist colony.

I agree with the guys on the missing SPID....no spid, no big bucks....period, at least for me.

Without it there are so many ways the truck story can be bent and tailored to attempt to market maximum value....by pulling and removing that spid or glovebox.
Its just a way too convenient a story and a very odd thing to be missing on a high value truck....seriously....who would ever lose or destroy that piece of documentation? (highly unlikely).....unless they needed to.

As for leafs vs. springs...you could get either on these trucks...long or short wheel base so don't sweat that.
(also....does the VIN on the frame match the VIN on the cab?...a lot of people don't know to check that frame stamping)

If you have up to a $25K budget, I would continue looking and comparing as to whats out there...because there are a lot of really great, documented trucks for that type of budget.
You might have to go out of state...but who cares....this investment is bigger than that challenge.

...however, when you go to look at this truck...as mentioned, check out the stake pockets and make sure you spend a good 20 minutes underneath it on some cardboard checking out that frame and any/all rust repairs to the rockers, cab corners, cab supports, etc.

Also, the odds of it being a '71 Super'...vs. a cheyenne (or re-badged base model for that matter) are not likely.
Remember anyone can buy a few emblems and trims pieces in order to 'Cheyenne Up' their truck....'Super' easy to do (pardon the pun)

Don't forget to casually peruse his garage for that supposedly missing glovebox door....lol....might be right there under the bench!!

Keep us posted and good luck and post up some pics if you get a chance and we can hopefully offer more assistance.

All good
Coley

[52napco]

I saw several "supers" at Pigeon Forge last weekend... several were conveniently missing the SPID lol and 3 or 4 of them were missing the one most crucial piece of mandatory equipment for the Cheyenne's and Supers...
the infamous cargo light.
I personally would much rather have a high option, good rust free, professionally shortened truck over a "fake" Super with rockers, cab corners, roof skin, etc half assed in... with all the cool porter built stuff being built I see nothing wrong with a nicely done shortened truck IMO as long as its disclosed.

[52napco]

I saw several "supers" at Pigeon Forge last weekend... several were conveniently missing the SPID lol and 3 or 4 of them were missing the one most crucial piece of mandatory equipment for the Cheyenne's and Supers...
the infamous cargo light.
I personally would much rather have a high option, good rust free, professionally shortened truck over a "fake" Super with rockers, cab corners, roof skin, etc half assed in... with all the cool porter built stuff being built I see nothing wrong with a nicely done shortened truck IMO as long as its disclosed.

[truckster]

Originally Posted by leddzepp

mecum and barrett jackson are worlds apart from a private seller. Tell him if he wants that kind of money he needs to sell it through one of those auctions.

this^

[71meangreenc10]

SPIDS mean a lot to me. Usually, not always there is a reason why it is missing. Most trucks that I have looked at that are missing SPIDS have a lot of deception in them. Only takes a few minutes before I start finding it. I agree above that if that guy wants BJ or Mecum prices, then he needs to go get his feelings hurt at those auctions. If you really want the truck you need to comb it over very finely. Way high price for for me.

Smitty

[jocko]

If the asking price seems high and you saw it (which is the case if I'm reading your post correctly), then I'd submit there is no reason to buy it. It has no documentation, so it's a restomod - and market value should be based on the goodies installed (eng/susp, int, etc) but NOT rarity or option loading or Cheyenne Super (or even SWB) claims. It's perfectly fine if the Cheyenne Super-ness was added for looks in the restomod process, but the added trim upgrades really shouldn't be part of your decision process at that point.

SPID vs NO SPID is a buyer preference thing. Barrett Jackson proves that buyers exist that are either a) uninformed and believe a seller's claims (I think this happens a lot on BJ...) or b) don't care if it's original or not and think it's worth $XXK to them. (there are also true collectors that know these trucks inside out and are willing to pay a premium for the rare and/or highly optioned gem). Where it becomes an issue is when Case a) or b) decides to sell the truck in the future and quickly realizes that SPIDs and provenance ARE important to a significant portion of the potential buyers and they can't understand buyers won't pay the same price (or a lot more than) they did for an undocumented "original".

- Have you asked if there was build sheet? Some sellers don't even know it provides the same level of provenance as a SPID if the SPID is missing.

- Do the doors have a visible screw head on the metal above the door panel just below the vent window rear edge? If yes, they are 72 doors and he swapped the whole doors over, as he stated. If no screw head is there, then they are likely the original 71 doors that have 72 door panels stuffed onto them (which also requires 72 window regulators to put the cranks in the right place). That's not really important, but if there's no screw, it's a ding on the seller's honesty. Probably not the case and it's ok to swap 72 doors (onto a restomod )

Greg mentioned above to check for a cut frame since so many folks are creating swb trucks out of lwb trucks. I'd agree, that's a good thing to check. It would be good to know from a strength/frame integrity standpoint, but from a "value" standpoint, it's somewhat meaningless without a SPID. SWB conversions can be done very well with no strength or frame integrity sacrificed - but on any SWB being considered nowadays, I'd always want to check to make sure it was either not done at all (if I'm trying to confirm if it was originally a true SWB truck) or if it was done correctly (if I don't care about the originality part of it).

As for the fake SPID comments above, I'll throw out that, even though new perfect SPIDs can be printed, patina on a SPID cannot be replicated very well at all. To me, if a seller has a new SPID, which is easy to spot as "new" - and no original SPID or build sheet safely tucked away in his files to back it up - and it's being sold as an "original" - It's the same as if there is no SPID to me. There's nothing wrong with creating one's own SPID to reflect how you have built your truck though - nothing wrong with that at all - it's only wrong if you later try to sell it as an "original" this or that and claim the SPID as documentation. But people DO do that, or they just remove the SPID, or whatever. The onus is on the buyer to be able to figure out originality. We've got some great experts on here to help out the crowd, and while it's true that originality can't always be proven, it is pretty easy these days to spot a fake or something that, at the very least, can't be proven to be original.

It's all about what's important to you and your plans for the future. But you wouldn't be the first guy to buy an undocumented Cheyenne Super knowingly while saying to yourself "I don't care if it's original, it's exactly how I'd build it myself and I'll never sell it" - that later regrets that mindset when it actually comes time to sell. I've never bought a truck with the intent to flip, I always intended to keep them all. Yet, I've sold many... Ha.

Ok, forget all that jibberish - I think $25K is too much for an undocumented 71 SWB Super with 72 doors.
Btw, if you have any pictures, we'd be happy to pick it apart - while we can't prove it is a SWB Super, we can often prove it isn't...

[71CHEVYSHORTBED402]

Originally Posted by CS1972

I stumbled on an interesting truck, a 71 Cheyenne Super short box which is in excellent shape, BUT the doors are 72’s, a few other minor issues and the SPID was removed for painting (interior, exterior, engine compartment and underneath). He said he put the 72 doors on because they were much nicer than the 71 originals. The price the guy is asking reflects what “he has seen on Mecum and Barrett Jackson” and that “69-72’s are red hot in the market”. But in my opinion “those trucks” probably had some provenance which proves that the truck was originally built that way. Without any SPID or sales documentation anyone can build a “CST” or “Cheyenne Super” and claim it as “original”. So, my question to the forum is “how much value do you think is lost when the SPID and/or supporting sale documentation is not available to prove what you’re selling is what was sold new”? Or for that matter, does most people who are interested in these even care? The asking price of $25K just seems high to me – based on what I saw while the truck was parked (I left my name and number and we’ve talked a couple times). I hope to go see the truck by the end of this weekend (now with buyers eyes vs the look it over – nice truck but he’ll probably not sell it eyes).
Also, I’ve searched the forum for “Coil vs Leaf” comments and actually was not aware that short boxes could come with leaf springs until this 71 came up for sale. From what I have read the general consensus seems to be: coils for light duty hauling, more ride comfort and leaf springs for heavier duty usage and not bad ride comfort, but not as good as the coils. I’m all about the ride quality so I’m a little concerned about the leaf springs.

72 doors are nicer than 71? That's news to me I get your meaning on the panels, it wouldn't be the first time GM used new material before the introduction year. I had to look up provenance My guess is they were swapped out so the truck's worth less money, IMO.

As for coil Vs leaf, if the ideal ride is that important, look elsewhere or change it over. You'd be burying a bunch of cash into it anyway. And I have a SWB leaf spring truck, so now you've insulted my truck twice It will have 4" drop leafs when a box of hardware arrives.

A build sheet is even better than a SPID, IMO. If you have neither, best you can do is dig deeper for clues they may have been lost. Frame serial # and year, block, intake, axle, doors, trans., etc. etc. etc...............all kinds of parts have an ID that can be matched up to the truck or year.

Haven't a clue on value. The OP doesn't describe condition. 25K without a SPID and build sheet........That truck would have to be in super condition.

Originally Posted by jocko

Ok, forget all that jibberish - I think $25K is too much for an undocumented 71 SWB Super with 72 doors.
Btw, if you have any pictures, we'd be happy to pick it apart - while we can't prove it is a SWB Super, we can often prove it isn't...

Ha ha ha ha haaaaaaa!, true story.

[special-K]

I assume it's not a big block. If it is, the GVW will be higher by 500# IIRC.

I know all kinds of people who feel the '72 doors are better and use them on whatever year truck they are building.

In 1990 I bought a woodgrain chromed glovebox door from Cheyenne Superman. I was telling him I was hesitant to use it because the truck was pretty rare and well optioned and din't want to loose the SPID. He reaches into his truck and sells me a blank SPID and told me what font I needed. That is when I realized things may not always be as they appear. You could look at a truck today with a 28 year old fake SPID. Not exactly fresh. I still have the orig. glovebox door from that truck. Now the chrome door is on my '72 K2500 and it's glovebox door is with the other. There are reasons other than deceit to have a missing SPID. Heck, back in the day when these trucks got painted a different color often times the SPID was peeled off to paint

[tutone]

I have ALWAYS gotten more money for a well documented truck or car. SPID / protectoplate/ service records/ receipts. All those things are important to a finicky buyer, and they should be. He's right about one thing. "These" trucks are climbing in the market, at least in asking price.

[rharris]

Ron,
As you can see the spid vs no spid is debatable. I have learned in my short time with these trucks that they sell whether they are stock, rebuilt, or rusted out. There is a buyer for all. If they are restored properly, I feel they bring about the same money. There are very knowledgeable members on here that can create you a SPID of your desire. I personally would want a not afraid to use daily driver with an intact spid. But that's only because I respect the nostalgia. I bought/sold a restored 71 shortbox K with matching SPID. I've watched other shortbox K's on ebay of equal quality with no spid and a CE2 (didn't make a 3/4 ton shortbox) vintag/spid sell for the same and higher. There are a lot of 2wd donors out there that bring big money. If it's a nice solid truck, I think it will sell for the $, regardless of SPID. Post some pictures when you get back to check it out. Good Luck.

[special-K]

I think his concern is more about assuring the truck is as built from factory more than about resale value. The fact is there are more people into these trucks now who don't know any better or care. All they care is what it is now. It didn't used to be that way and that's where I am coming from. The same can be true for a pro-touring LS '69 Camaro done to the max with the latest trends. Some would pay more for that than a 100% pure factory car. But as far as being concerned about value goes, if I was buying with reselling in mind I would want one that is bonafide with a matching SPID.

[tutone]

Originally Posted by special-K

I think his concern is more about assuring the truck is as built from factory more than about resale value. The fact is there are more people into these trucks now who don't know any better or care. All they care is what it is now. It didn't used to be that way and that's where I am coming from. The same can be true for a pro-touring LS '69 Camaro done to the max with the latest trends. Some would pay more for that than a 100% pure factory car. But as far as being concerned about value goes, if I was buying with reselling in mind I would want one that is bonafide with a matching SPID.

I couldn't agree more. Once a car or truck model reaches "iconic" status, and 67-72 chevy trucks have, a couple of things happen. Aftermarket vendors dump millions into the market with parts and upgrades. Popularity drives the price up and the law of supply and demand rules the market on resale. This all happened in the tri five market 35 years ago. I thought when the age group that bought them new moved on, that there might be a drop in the market value of them. That is not the case. They are more expensive now than ever. The same with first gen Camaros. Now our trucks are there. I say that in a short ten years, a FACTORY 115" wheelbase truck will be double the cost of a long bed. And don't get me wrong, it isn't that they are any better, its the fact that. The 6 to 1 ratio that GM produced them has caught up with the 60 years of the aging and dissapearance of them. The OP's question is valid. It is worth more to me.

[S_Gibson]

If he was selling on Barrett Jackson he be out 8% of the sale price + other related cost to sell it. People could sell a lemon as an apple there also so I wouldn't care what he thinks it is worth. Somethings true value is what one person would be willing to sell it for and what another person would be willing to spend. Everything else is relative.

I'd look at it and if you like it so much you would be willing to buy it with no guarantee it is what they claim then go for it. If not pass on it. I was at Charlotte auto fair a couple weekends ago and saw quite a few of these trucks for sale from $10,000 to $50,000. Only two I saw would I have even considered buying at the asking price. Both would have made excellent daily drivers.

[davepl]

Why is a SPID a big value hit when you can get a new SPID printed up on the original chain printer on original forms saying anything you want?

I think about the rarest thing we can establish is a big block with AC, because we can do it through stamped numbers. If it's an option that can only be established by SPID, and if SPID is easily duplicated, how do you authenticate anything?

In my case I'm claiming it's a Sierra Grande, but it could be fake. But I have pictures of it being a Sierra Grande on the delivery day to the original owner in 1970. But I could have hired an old guy and used an old 110 camera.

Without things like stampings and crosshatches to verify the stampings, it's hard to verify anything.

I just went through documenting and confirming a car I bought is a one-of-one super rarity, but everything matched. Alternator, distributor, (water pump had been repalced), trans, axle, and so on. Since they all matched each other, it was either real or an amazing amount of work.