What brand of hydraulic roller lifters is good for Chevy 454

[HeavyHauler]

I am thinking about going hydraulic roller cam for a 1976 Chevy 454 build that I am doing to avoid the whole wiping out a cam with flat tappet lifters thing.

What are a good brand of hydraulic lifters to buy for a Chevy 454?
Some feed back from guys that are running hydraulic roller cams in their big blocks would be awesome. Thanks!

[68Gold/white]

There's a boat load of debate about this. Most Cam makers don't make their own lifters. Cam makers switch brands of lifters. I've read of lots of hydraulic roller lifter failures lately.

Hylift Johnson is THE premier lifter maker, period. There is another company called Johnsn Lifters, NOT the same company. they are good, not as good as Hylift Johnson, though.

The Hylift Johnsons are expensive. It may be difficult to buy lifters from either of these companies ...right now. One or both of them shut down rpoduction for the virus

Theres 2 other brands that have been good, but not always, Shaver and Morel. THese 2 brands have been used by several of the cam makers, on and off.

These are my opinions based on TONS of info I've read about hydraulic roller lifters, VERY lately.

Hylift Johnson just went way up on price, I've been told. I would still buy their product. I HAVE used theit flat tappet lifters, the best money can buy!!!

[geezer#99]

Couple easier ways to avoid the flat cam blues!
Softer break in springs and lower ratio (1.3 to 1) rockers.
As for roller lifters I’d use those recommended by the cam guy.
Chris Straub could likely help.


https://straubtechnologies.com/

[jgr]

hydraulic roller cam? or hydraulic lifters? you are asking about two different things.
If you are going with a hydraulic roller cam i would recommend Clay Smith cams.
All this talk lately about flat tappet failure, hydraulic or solid lifter is 99% due to wrong spring pressure, incorect break in or rocker arm geometry. Roller cam and roller lifters are huge $$$ in comparison to flat tappet.
I just put a Hydraulic roller in my 427

[68Gold/white]

I was referring to hydraulic ROLLER lifter failures, yes!

[jgr]

Ok if you use the right valve springs for the application that's half the battle, I did so much research on this issue before I purchased my cam my head was spinning lol. bottom line, follow all the recommendations from your cam manufacturer and you will be good to go. all these companies spend millions of dollars on research and testing to sell a good product. do it like they say. To many guys trying to get away with short cuts. Clay Smith was unbelievable to work with!

[weq92f]

.
I went all COMP when retrofitting my BBC to a roller cam...

Cam
Lifters
Rockers
Retainers
Keepers
Springs


The heads were setup by a trusted machinist as per the cam specification and the rest was assembled by myself ( the valves were adjusted multiple times using various preloads )...

After a few thousand miles the noise of lifter clacking or tappets tapping has not diminished. Some research has enlightened me to the fact that COMP BBC retrofit roller lifters are going to be noisy and in many cases extremely so. I've not come across any notes of failures, just the noise.

I've now acquired a set of Howards 91161 lifters to replace my current COMP 854-16 roller lifters. Choosing the Howards lifters comes after a bunch of reading online about retrofit lifter noise issues and then just about quality of the currently available examples.

Be aware however that I've not installed these lifters yet. The tear down will begin soon though!

Hth,

-klb

[toolboxchev]

Take them apart and clean them first. Just a hint. Re-assemble with clean oil.

[Ptjsk]

Within the last one year, I have had two motors rebuilt.

One is a '67 427/435 Corvette motor. Yes, I know they're extremely rare and many of them are cloned. Fortunately, this one is real and still has the original "JE" code letters on the block.

Anyway, went with a Comp cam (hydraulic roller), and Comp hydraulic roller lifters.

After several hours of attempting to identify the tapping noise, and the ability to literally "push down" on the rocker arms, I finally had to bite the truth and replace the entire hydraulic roller lifters.

Second motor is a 454. A 70's era 4 bolt main motor. The motor builder went with Comp cams (hydraulic roller), and the Comp hydraulic roller.

Due to the problems I had with the 427, I wasn't about to put it into my car until I ran it on an engine stand.

Set up the motor, started right up. After running for a few minutes, we would hear a scraping sound. Shut it off. Checked the inside of the valve covers to ensure there was adequate space. Started the motor again and more scraping sounds.

Finally decided to take off the intake manifold to see what we could find. Once again, Comp hydraulic roller caused me problems. It actually ground a cam lobe. I thought this wasn't possible to flatten a cam lobe with a hydraulic roller set-up, but I'm here to tell you that isn't always the case.

Had to order a new cam and went with a Howard Cam.

The engine builder took apart the hydraulic roller lifter and found that it was actually missing at least two, if not three of the needle bearings. They didn't fall out, they simply were not installed when building the lifter.

That said.....I will never purchase a cam, or a lifter set from Comp Cams. I will spend the extra money (up front), and purchase an ISKY, or a Howards set-up.

Google search problems with Comp Cams and Comp Roller Lifters, and you will find several problems with them.

Pat

[geezer#99]

Did you crank up the rpm when you first started either motor.
Cam lobes are mainly oiled by splash from the crank.
Just curious.
Check this thread.


https://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/...d.php?t=811204

[Ptjsk]

Originally Posted by geezer#99

Did you crank up the rpm when you first started either motor.
Cam lobes are mainly oiled by splash from the crank.
Just curious.
Check this thread.


https://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/...d.php?t=811204

Yep. Fortunately, I had both engine builders on hand at first start up. both of these guys are long time professionals in their business.

The first one didn't have the cam problem, just the hydraulic roller lifters (2), that would never hold pressure and make a "ton" of noise.

The second motor cam grind came because one of the lifters was not assembled correctly. It was missing some of it's roller bearings which would cause it to "hang" up. Subsequently flattening a cam lobe.

[weq92f]

.
Careful...

With these cross-bar lifters, it is very easy to "flip" the lifters the WRONG way on the cross-bar and install them incorrectly this way. They will still slide down into the bores and look/feel/taste just like they are installed correctly however when you peer down at the roller where it meets the cam, you'll notice that if you have the cross-bar upside-down, the roller will be canted at about 30 degrees or so off to the left or right rather than straight lined up with the cam lobe.

That is... The roller on the lifter will be hitting the lobe, but the roller on the lifter, due to the incorrect orientation of the cross-bar, is now NOT rolling straight along the lobe but it is being dragged across the lobe at an angle. It may still roll but will eventually destroy the cam and the lifter.

Many manufacturers now have a Brand logo on the crossbar which helps if you pay attention to it once installed. If you see the logo upside-down, that set of lifters is installed just as described above and will destroy the cam/lifters and send shrapnel throughout your oiling system.

With no logo or other marking on the cross-bar, you're on your own to make sure you have the lifters and cross-bar oriented properly for correct roller to cam alignment.

We did see another fellow some time back post about how his retro-fit lifters had failed and destroyed his engine. The picture he posted showed at least one pair of lifters were installed as mentioned above.

These latest Howards 91161 have an arrow and the word UP on the cross-bar. Note in the picture when the arrow is pointing down ( the wrong way ) the lifter rollers are no longer oriented straight.

Hth,

-klb

[jgr]

Howards 91161 those are the lifters I used in my 427, so far so good!

[SCOTI]

Originally Posted by weq92f

.
Careful...

With these cross-bar lifters, it is very easy to "flip" the lifters the WRONG way on the cross-bar and install them incorrectly this way. They will still slide down into the bores and look/feel/taste just like they are installed correctly however when you peer down at the roller where it meets the cam, you'll notice that if you have the cross-bar upside-down, the roller will be canted at about 30 degrees or so off to the left or right rather than straight lined up with the cam lobe.

That is... The roller on the lifter will be hitting the lobe, but the roller on the lifter, due to the incorrect orientation of the cross-bar, is now NOT rolling straight along the lobe but it is being dragged across the lobe at an angle. It may still roll but will eventually destroy the cam and the lifter.

Many manufacturers now have a Brand logo on the crossbar which helps if you pay attention to it once installed. If you see the logo upside-down, that set of lifters is installed just as described above and will destroy the cam/lifters and send shrapnel throughout your oiling system.

With no logo or other marking on the cross-bar, you're on your own to make sure you have the lifters and cross-bar oriented properly for correct roller to cam alignment.

We did see another fellow some time back post about how his retro-fit lifters had failed and destroyed his engine. The picture he posted showed at least one pair of lifters were installed as mentioned above.

These latest Howards 91161 have an arrow and the word UP on the cross-bar. Note in the picture when the arrow is pointing down ( the wrong way ) the lifter rollers are no longer oriented straight.

Hth,

-klb

At first I was thinking "WTH.... How does one flip it the wrong way...?". That pic is worth a thousand words.

[weq92f]

Originally Posted by jgr

Howards 91161 those are the lifters I used in my 427, so far so good!

Cool...I'm hoping for much quieter operation and maybe get a better idle. I suspect one or more of my current COMP lifters aren't properly lifting valves all the way. This ~could~ be the source of an idle issue I've been having ( EFI + 02 sensors ).


-klb

[JMD]

Originally Posted by weq92f

.
Careful...

With these cross-bar lifters, it is very easy to "flip" the lifters the WRONG way on the cross-bar and install them incorrectly this way. They will still slide down into the bores and look/feel/taste just like they are installed correctly however when you peer down at the roller where it meets the cam, you'll notice that if you have the cross-bar upside-down, the roller will be canted at about 30 degrees or so off to the left or right rather than straight lined up with the cam lobe.

That is... The roller on the lifter will be hitting the lobe, but the roller on the lifter, due to the incorrect orientation of the cross-bar, is now NOT rolling straight along the lobe but it is being dragged across the lobe at an angle. It may still roll but will eventually destroy the cam and the lifter.

Many manufacturers now have a Brand logo on the crossbar which helps if you pay attention to it once installed. If you see the logo upside-down, that set of lifters is installed just as described above and will destroy the cam/lifters and send shrapnel throughout your oiling system.

With no logo or other marking on the cross-bar, you're on your own to make sure you have the lifters and cross-bar oriented properly for correct roller to cam alignment.

We did see another fellow some time back post about how his retro-fit lifters had failed and destroyed his engine. The picture he posted showed at least one pair of lifters were installed as mentioned above.

These latest Howards 91161 have an arrow and the word UP on the cross-bar. Note in the picture when the arrow is pointing down ( the wrong way ) the lifter rollers are no longer oriented straight.

Hth,

-klb

I'm pretty sure that fellow was me! I'll be kicking myself for that one for a long time...

[weq92f]

Originally Posted by JMD

I'm pretty sure that fellow was me! I'll be kicking myself for that one for a long time...

I nearly made the same mistake. It is too easy.

-klb

[weq92f]

.

Replacing the Comp 854-16 with Howards 91161, I see only a few external differences: The Howards lifters are slightly taller, have a wider roller and sport an oiling hole design that varies wildly from the Comps. Appears as though I'll need new push rods...we'll see...

EDIT: COMP lifters have black crossbar

-klb

[Ptjsk]

I think you made the right decision!

Good luck with your motor,

Pat

[weq92f]

.
Turns out the pushrods needed are just a hair under 150 thousands shorter than the ones I'm running for the comps.

Using the manufacturers specs, the seat height of the new lifters is 0.148" shorter. So I took that and measured out both an exhaust and an intake pushrod with my tool right at the calculated sizes, installed those and tested them with the new lifters on the base circle. Using a rocker stud based length checker I found about a 60 to 100thou gap above the valve tip on the intake and a little less on the exhaust.

Using the existing comp lifters and pushrods I did the same test and found the same gap.

I did not want to pull the springs to install test springs ( super lightweight springs ) because head is installed and couldn't find my adapter and I am unable to disassemble one of the howards lifters due to the crossbar as its attachment anchor will interfere. So...

I said F'k it... painted the valve tips, installed the rockers to zero lash + half turn and rolled the engine over two cycles of the valves. The marks looked good.

Went to summit ( my only TODAY store ) and they had a single option that were dang close, well within .050 so I got 'em.

[HeavyHauler]

This is interesting stuff. Glad I came back to this thread as I will be getting my hydraulic roller cam and lifters next week. I plan on getting either Howards or Lunati.

[hjewell2]

Originally Posted by jgr

Howards 91161 those are the lifters I used in my 427, so far so good!

You will not have any problem with that part number from howards, those can run up to 7500 rpm easy if the springs support it.

[weq92f]

.

I've gotten them installed and running with great results over the ones that came out! No more noise and they are working as expected.

EDIT: turns out those ACDelco push rods were mis-boxed or otherwise wrong as the same test with them failed. Had to do some more searching and ended up installing a set of CRANE Cams push rods.

-klb

[ChevyRacefan]

Finding a lot of counterfeit parts.
Coming through summit and jegs.
From cam and lifter sets to mds boxes, and others.