12 point or 6 point socket or box end wrench fitting a nut

[dmjlambert]

OK here is something I have not encountered before in decades of mechanical work. I can't figure out how this is possible.

I am trying to adjust a 71-72 tie rod and the clamp bolt and nut are 1/2 inch. The bolt and nut both fit a 1/2 inch open end wrench just great. I have Craftsman combination wrenches with a 12 point box end, and a couple brands of ratcheting box end wrenches with 12 points, and 12 and 6 point sockets. Nothing I have that is 12 point will fit onto the nut at all, that includes box end wrenches regular and ratcheting and 12 point sockets. The 6 point socket just slides right on the nut with no problem. The open end wrench will fit on the nut with no problem, fitting on any pair of the 6 sides. The bolt head is the same size and and will work with 12 point or 6 point tools. The nut will absolutely not work with 12 point tools. I checked both clamp bolts on both sides of the truck, same story. The nuts appear to me to be high quality, other than the nuts don't work with 12 point tools. Is there something about that nut that makes it specially designed to not work with 12 point tools? I see a little bit of a ridge on a couple sides of the 6 sides. Is this nuts or am I a squirrel?

Unfortunately I don't remember the brand of tie rods. I got them from Manes Truck Parts and didn't keep the boxes.

[CUSTOM/10]

?? Metric ?? Maybe ??? Just guessing.

I've seen some metric threads loosely thread on stanbard bolts but head size not right. Usually cheap stuff.

[72SB]

FWIW I was just removing a header with 6 point 5/16 head and a 5/16" 12 point would not fit but 6 sided 5/16" box would. A 3/8" 12 point box fit perfect. No, the header bolts were not metric

Does a 9/16" 12 point work for you?

Personally I would use the 6-sided socket or box wrench vs a 12 point wherever possible

[72c20customcamper]

Bolts are miss stamped . Looks like a double stamp to make the head . You could file the very top of the head but I would just buy new bolts

Edit: On second thought it possible it’s a thin jam nut and a nut together . I’ve seen where they dip the bolts and nuts together in corrosion coat and they are stuck together . Use an open end hold the nut and use the socket on the stop nut to break it free

[Stocker]

Originally Posted by CUSTOM/10

?? Metric ?? Maybe ??? Just guessing.

Maybe this. 1/2" = 12.7mm. You might have a 13mm bolt. My only guess....


EDIT: Good catch, Mark! I didn't notice that.

[dmjlambert]

It doesn't seem metric to me but a 13mm 12-point ratcheting box end wrench will fit on it. The open end side of the 13mm wrench also works but it is a looser fit than the 1/2 inch open end wrench. 9/16 wrench will not fit at all, way too loose to even contact the nut. Perhaps this is just manufacturing tolerances and cheap stuff. I'm using 6-point tools to get this done now, I just happened to notice this weird thing because I had the 12-point tools handy and had crawled under the truck with them. I don't own any 6-point ratcheting box end wrenches, and that type of wrench is what I really wanted to use for this thing.

[dmjlambert]

Originally Posted by 72c20customcamper

Bolts are miss stamped . Looks like a double stamp to make the head . You could file the very top of the head but I would just buy new bolts

Edit: On second thought it possible it’s a stop nut and a nut together . I’ve seen where they dip the bolts and nuts together in corrosion coat and they are stuck together . Use an open end hold the nut and use the socket on the stop nut to break it free

That is the nut that we're looking at, that is miss stamped or has some other characteristic to it. The little ledge is only on 2 (opposite) sides and perhaps it happened in the manufacturing process and all 4 of the nuts I have are identical. I don't have thin enough wrenches to see if the nut will break into 2 pieces. That is interesting it may be a stop nut and nut fused together.

[dmjlambert]

Mystery solved, I'll call it metric. Thanks. It didn't occur to me to screw the threads on a thread checker, and I just did that. It is M8-1.25. The only other metric thing on the truck is the bolt used to tighten the alternator in the adjustment groove. They told me in elementary school the metric system was coming to get me. I think the ridges on the 2 opposing sides of the nut are where they squeezed it to make it a stop nut.

[geezer#99]

Not metric!
Coated!


https://www.duplexfastener.com/faste...s-coating.html

[jabborabbo]

I had similar fun with the ‘71 Triumph Daytona I bought when I was 14…at first it seemed that a collection of standard and metric wrenches/sockets were adequate…turns out that some of the fasteners were standard, the rest were Whitworth….

[Stocker]

Originally Posted by jabborabbo

I had similar fun with the ‘71 Triumph Daytona I bought when I was 14…at first it seemed that a collection of standard and metric wrenches/sockets were adequate…turns out that some of the fasteners were standard, the rest were Whitworth….

Yessir, same with my old '68 Triumph Bonneville. My first & only experience with Whitworth wrenches. Gotta love the British....

[Willie Makeit]

Originally Posted by geezer#99

Not metric!
Coated!


https://www.duplexfastener.com/faste...s-coating.html

it's black phosphate which is a chemical process, not a coating. it adds zero thickness to whatever it's applied to. think of it as an industrial gun bluing process. it's 13mm metric and i say this because i went thru the same exact thing about 2 months ago. old tie rod adjusters were 1/2" and the new ones were 13mm

[Palf70Step]

I am finding that most parts made today are metric even if they are for something this old and non-metric.

[jumpsoffrock]

Originally Posted by jabborabbo

I had similar fun with the ‘71 Triumph Daytona I bought when I was 14…at first it seemed that a collection of standard and metric wrenches/sockets were adequate…turns out that some of the fasteners were standard, the rest were Whitworth….

Originally Posted by Stocker

Yessir, same with my old '68 Triumph Bonneville. My first & only experience with Whitworth wrenches. Gotta love the British....

Wow I had no idea Whitworth made it that far, I had heard of it before but I thought it was made obsolete in the 20-30's.

[body bolt]

Originally Posted by jabborabbo

I had similar fun with the ‘71 Triumph Daytona ….

I got this far and knew you had found Whitworth.

[special-K]

Glad you figured it out. My dad had '60s Land Rovers and my first motorcycle was a Triumph. Yes, I have met Mr. Whitworth, poured Girling, and drank warm beer from a Lucas refrigerator

[jabborabbo]

Originally Posted by special-K

Glad you figured it out. My dad had '60s Land Rovers and my first motorcycle was a Triumph. Yes, I have met Mr. Whitworth, poured Girling, and drank warm beer from a Lucas refrigerator

Lucas…Prince of Darkness….

Actually I think Lucas gotta a bad rap due to British electrical stuff being wired “Positive Earth” (which since electrons emanate from the negative terminal and travel to the positive terminal then positive ground makes perfect sense - blame Ben Franklin and others for reversing common sense).

Anyhoo, I’ve witnessed several Brit bike owners fry their electrical system by assuming “Negative Earth”, and blaming poor Mr. Lucas….