Spahl Electric Fan

[DCRANER]

Planning on replacing my regular fan with a Spahl Fan when I do my March pulley system.

These fans are very highly rated, very effecient & quiet, so I am told.

I plan on a dual 11" setup, but have to decide between a 185 or 195 thermostat. I will be running an MSD, these fans, and not much else. A/C system has been removed and keeping the stock radio.

Any thoughts on this brand fan and which thermostat would be the best choice. The Spahl people tell me that my new 100 amp alternator will be enough for all of this. Any special battery suggested when doing this?

See my signature below for my truck details. Not trying to save money doing this, so willing to do what is needed for best results.

Thanks.

[78SilveradoSWB]

Check out Jeff's site http://www.73-87.com/index.html

The former site owner, Mike Ervin install dual spal electric fans in his truck, but they were larger than 11 inches though.

[gchemist]

How much are you paying for the Spal Fans? Some guy on a Dakota forum has some available. I even saw a Viper fan installation for $150!! Now that's some thing that will cool your engine.

[swervin ervin]

DCRANER,

as mentioned, I have dual Spal fans on my 85. Mine are what they called 14" but in reality are 13". Anyway, the Dual Spal 14" fans wouldn't fit anyway. They measure 13.62 x 14.17 inches. I bought my entire setup from a place in Valencia CA named Scotts Manufacturing Co. I don't think they have a website, but their number is 800-272-3267. Or at least it was several years ago anyway.

By the time the fans and everything to go with it was at my house in NC, it cost $468.00. I know this is ton of money for fans, but it included 2 relays and complete wiring harness. Everything you need to install them. Even a manual override button for the inside to cut them on and off if needed. It comes with a thermostat that goes in the intake or head. They work flawlessly. Never come much anyway, unless I get caught at a long light in the summer. The Stewart water pump I have on it is part of this also.

I am one of the biggest critics of getting what you pay for. And judging by what you have done to your truck, I see you are too. So, saying this, I highly recommend this setup. You will not regret buying for sure. As you know, Spal is the leader in electric cooling fans. There is no better fan made. If you want the best, a Spal fan is the one to go with. There are other options which will be cheaper, but this falls back onto the getting what you pay for deal. I don't know about you, but when it comes to cooling my engine, I'm not going to scrimp and maybe save $150.00 - $200.00 for a lower quality setup. Then it end up costing me a $1000.00 for engine repair when they quit on me. It's worth the extra money for the piece of mind.

Anyway, that's my take on it. Hope it helps.

Oh, btw, I have all the part numbers if by chance you call them and need anything. But, I think you will be able to tell them what you have they will know what you need. They did for me anyway.

Mike

[DCRANER]

O/K, looks like you & I are on the same page here. March Performance Pulleys has the Spal dual 11" for $295, and then $55 each for two relays / harness. The dual 11" is 2780 CFM and measures 23 1/2 by 16 1/4 by 4 1/4.

So this sounds like a good fit, etc. Also, what are your thoughts on the 185 or 195 thermostat?

One note about my truck, and this may be a question for the code experts. Mine is highly optioned and the glove box sticker lists amoung other things... YE9 which is Sierra Classic Edition, but one for YH4 which is Gold Medal Special. I cannot figure out what that is. Just curious.

I am taking pics tomorrow in my garage and will get the processing going. Otherwise UPS just keeps piling boxes at my door each day, so I have to get to work soon on getting this done.

Thanks.

[swervin ervin]

OK. So this is self contained unit, with a built in shroud. Sounds nice. My fans are rated by Spal at 1710 cfm each, so this equals 3420 cfm. And believe me, they really pull some air. You are right, the ones you are talking about are rated at 2780, but this is both together. I say it has a shroud, don't know this for sure, but they do list them as dual.

http://www.spal-usa.com/html/spalhome.htm

Their site is framed and I can't provide links to the specs page. Just look under Aftermarket Products, then fans and specs. Mine are the 13" cruved blade pullers. 14.17 x 13.62 inches.

I think 2780 will work fine. It won't cool it down as quick as a higher cfm, but I don't think it would make a much difference, at most maybe a minute or two.

Anyway, on the stat. I have a 195 degree thermostat. I have it in the intake because of the way the sensor plug is made, it was too close to the headers and getting pretty hot. I was scared it was going to melt it. As you probably know, the intake is not a true reading of coolant temp at the gauge when the sender for the gauge is in the head. We all know the coolant is hottest at the head than anywhere else before it goes back to the radiator. So this means my fans don't come on until it hits close to 210. This may seem too hot, but believe me, it's not. This is perfect for my truck. It cuts on at 210 and off at a little over 180, about 182 or so.

It worried me at first. After getting them installed and firing it up to test them. I waited forever for them to kick on. After it passed 205, I shut it down thinking something was wired wrong. Double checked and fired it back up and waited a few more minutes this time and they kicked on right at 210.

The thing about it is, you don't need them running all the time. If you go with a 185, it will kick on at 200 maybe and off at what, 175. This would work too. But many don't know this about electric fans and think they run all the time. My fans never come on. In the summer, unless I sit at idle for several minutes, they don't come on. Never do they come on while driving or moving. The air through the radiator is enough. It's cool/cold here, around 50 degrees today. I could go out now and get in my truck and drive and not even need any fans at all. I could sit in a drivethrough for 10 minutes and they sitll probably wouldn't come on. When it's hot, maybe sit for 5 minutes before they come on.

Think about it, most of the time, we are moving.

I would go with the 195 degree stat if I were you. What kind/brand of water pump do you have? Stock GM aluminum pump?

[DCRANER]

Thanks, good info. I was considering the 185 stat. due to the location of the sensor at the intake, even though the ZZ430 just seems to run cool. I think it is a combination of the FastBurn head design, fact they are alum., and I made a point of getting the correct D-Port headers with the ceramic coating inside & out. It is amazing how much heat stays in the header pipe with the internal ceramic coating, and this forces the exhaust to scavange out quickly. After a long run and I pull into the garage, when I open the hood after shutting off, there is no crackling heat sound and you can run your hand over the engine and you feel very little heat. Also, the ZZ430 does not like a lot of timimg, makes best power at about 32 degrees total, and when I go to the MSD with the hotter spark, I will probably richen up the mixture anyway.

So, even though I think the dual 2780 CFM is good, would you think the one you have would be a better choice. I like yours with the curved blades, should be quiet, but I have to find out if the dual 11" has curved blades. I would think yours will come on less often than the one I am looking at. I am also going to call Spal and ask their opinion.

I will also upgrade to an Edelbrock Victor Alum. water pump. Have had these before and with their balanced coolant flow I had seen a consistent 15 degree temp. drop in my 69 396 Chevelle.

[swervin ervin]

The size of the fans won't have anything to do with how often they come on. The only thing size/cfm will do is let it cool down quicker, by pulling more air through the radiator. So a bigger size/cfm fans will not run as long after they do come on. Like I said above, this difference may not be much because we're not talking drastic differences here. But of course 650-700 cfm is a fair amount.

One thing you will need is a higher amp alternator for sure. These Spal fans draw somes amps. This is the tell-tell sign of how good they really are. If you see fans advertised at 2900 cfm and drawing 18 amps, you can just about bet the bank on them truely being in the 1800-2000 cfm range. It's false advertising for sure. An electric fan should draw real close to 1 amp for every 100 cfm. Mine suck the juice. So, when they come on, the battery is not enough to keep up, especially if the lights or other power drawing things are on, such as my sound system. Without my 140 amp alterntor, I would need, and did have, a AC idle compensator hooked up to the fan circuit to kick the rpm up a tad to overcome the power draw. When I upped to the 140, I removed the idle compensator and everything is fine.

I totally agree on the in/out ceramic coating. In a few minutes you can grab the headers bare handed after running. Do this with painted headers and see how fast it melts the skin off.

My fans are two separate fans. They don't come as a unit. You mount each fan to the radiator. The harness is simple to install and hook up. I think with a built in shroud, that covers most or all of the radiator, the air flow with the fans off will not be as good. I know a lot of folks think you need a shroud covering the entire radiator to pull the air over the complete surface. Not true. With a high flow pump, the coolant is moving at a fast pace anyway, which is what you want, the shroud ends up being only a cosmetic thing to me. Nothing wrong with cosmetics for sure, but sometimes I prefer something working better to how it looks. Again, I don't think it will be this much of a difference in your case because you are using good fans, though a smaller/lower cfm. The pic is how mine look. The top piece on the radiator is a piece of stainless steel left over from a job we did in a medical building. It was part of some stainless trashcans for bathrooms. Anyway, I adapted it to fit and it looks great.

As for do I recommend mine over the ones you're thinking of getting. Couldn't say. I know mine work great, but I don't think the others will be a lot different. I would like to see a photo of how they look. Again, we don't need fans much anyway. One thing I would recommend though. Instead of the Edelbrock pump, go for a Stewart Components Stage 2 aluminum pump. Stewart Components is a leader in pump technology. They build pumps for NASCAR if this tells you anything.

http://www.stewartcomponents.com/

In the summer while driving, my temp never gets over 170 and this is with a 180 degree stat. Check out the site, and browse the message board they have. They are top notch and don't hesitate to say get one.

Oh, I am extremely jealous of your ZZ430.

Mike

[swervin ervin]

Oops. Forgot the pic.

[DCRANER]

I think I agree about the alternator, I guess I am looking for a reason to say my 100 amp is enough since I already have it, polished billet. I do not have any sound system other than a stock am / fm radio.

I am wondering if I can get away with my 100 amp alternator if I get an Optima Yellow Top battery, thinking the deep cycle will get me by. Since we all have engines that start on the first crank I do not think I really need a super good starter type battery.

It sounds like you have a real nice engine yourself, what exactly is it? As to the ZZ430, I have always wanted that one, but when they first came out a number of years ago it was too expensive. Now GM sells a clone (like mine), probably better than the original one anyway. But thanks for the comment, I am really looking forward to getting this engine super tuned with the MSD, and thinking the March pulley system and the electric fans will add about 20 more HP.

Thanks again, I appreciate your suggestions / knowledge, I have been doing this stuff for many years but do not consider myself an expert by any means. It looks like everything you have done is very well thought out.

Doug

[swervin ervin]

I have been doing this stuff many years also. Not trucks in perticular, but hotrodding.

On the 100 amp, since it is so nice, try it and see. It may work just fine. It's not something you must have before running the fans. I don't know anything about the Optima's. Some of the guys around here have them. Maybe they will jump in. I've thought strongly about getting one, but didn't see the need for the extra expense to just say I had one. This thinking may be a mistake on my part. It wouldnt be the first mistake I ever made. I'm curious is the yellow top deep cycle would help with the power demand. Hmmm.... you got me to thinking again. This gets to be bad sometimes.

My engine is nothing fancy. To make a long story short, it's a GM Goodwrench 350 with a lot of addons. Never planned it this way, just happened. Plans were for a stock running truck with a good stock engine at first. Things seem to change rather quickly with me sometimes.

I'm guessing since you say March pulleys, they are underdriven, right? This will hurt the alternator output, as it will the other accesories. PS pump, water pump too. They look good, but I wish they made them in stock size. Or do they??

MSD. Good stuff. Great stuff. My whole ignition system is MSD, except for plugs of course. IMO, there is nothing better for made.

As for the thought out thing. Not really. I am get it done type of person. To the point of doing it several times. It may sound like it is, but believe me, I am bad about changing my mind right in the middle of something. Ask the guys on the board, several of them have some of my extra stuff on their trucks. It sure is fun though.

[Mike76251]

Mike...........next time you need a battery, get a Optima.
The class of your truck demands it IMO and you will never have to clean terminals again= they are sealed at the posts.

As for a yellow-top helping with a big draw such as dual fans........I tend to think it would not help as batterys don't make the power in the first place, they just store it.

[swervin ervin]

Which is the best one to use, red or yellow. I like the looks of the red better, since it would match better with the red on the MSD stuff. Yellow would stick out like a sore thumb.

I know, I know, getting real picky here.

[AirMale]

Welcome from Jersey, nice to see some other trucks from the area. We need some pics of yours so we can admire all your hard work. I by the Hamilton Mall if you want to compare notes.

[DCRANER]

O/K, I will have to check out the Jersey guy.

On my March pulley system I did not get the underdrives, mine are the stock size / ratio, just excellent balance & alignment. So this should not hurt the alternator / battery function.

As to the Optima batteries, the Red Top is a starter battery, your basic battery used for initial start up, etc. The Yellow Top is a deep cycle battery meaning it will have a longer cycle than the Red Top, supposed to maintain more power while under a heavy accessory load, not requiring the alternator to keep cycling in like a starter battery. The Yellow Top would not be good in the winter if you had many early morning startups where you had to really crank the engine, needing a constant full charge each time you started the engine, and so on. Well, that is my understanding so maybe someone with better knowledge can tell me if I am on the right track in thinking a deep cycle battery will help me here.

Thanks.

[Mike76251]

Originally posted by swervin ervin
Which is the best one to use, red or yellow. I like the looks of the red better, since it would match better with the red on the MSD stuff. Yellow would stick out like a sore thumb.

I know, I know, getting real picky here.

I have one blue........two red...........and one yellow and they really seem the same (I know they are not) but just go with a red-top and you will be fine.