spark plugs and gap

[farside847]

I have a PerTronix Ignitor electronic points system. Does this mean I need to set the spark plug gap diferently? What brand plugs do you guys use Its time for a turneup.

[MrC1]

No, the gap is more dependent upon your coil's ability to jump it. The Pertronix merely makes the triggering more accurate and consistent.

[farside847]

You know, you read my mind. I was thinking of adding a new coil and replacing the spark plug wires while I was at it. Pertronics makes a coil for this ignition that has 40000volt output and a 1.5ohm or 3.0ohm rating. Do you think this would be a worthwhile upgrade? I am trying to widen my sparkplug gap to increase combustion efficiency and mpg... I thought of a MSD too but they are kinda expensive. Hmmm.

[MrC1]

My fav is the MSD Blaster SS. I'm currently running one on my other toy vehicle and I've never used a more powerful coil. The arc it can create is simply amazing. Did I mention it's cheap? I paid $35 if I rememebr right.

http://www.msdignition.com/coil_blaster_6_8207.htm

[farside847]

So, when shopping for a new coil what ohm rating should I look for? I have seen 1.5ohm, 3.0ohm and that MSD SS unit is .35

Is a lower ohm better?

FYI: My engine is a stock 307 with a mildly upgraded cam, hardened heads, and a Pertronics ignition.

Thanks!

[70rs/ss]

I'd shell it out for the upgraded equipment, as the savings will be big. With a better spark intensity you can open your gap to 45 thousands or more depending. I was using an MSD 6AL and gapped my plugs to 60 thou and if I am not mistaking the newer trucks run 60-65 thou from the factory with the new coil pack on plug technology. The MSD is pricey for your stocker, but they do have an entry level unit below:
Economy/Street: For the first time and budget buildups, this section offers ignition upgrades for daily drivers and loaded work trucks.


7.5 Amp inductive discharge provides a hot, long duration spark.
Input for points, electronic ignitions or a magnetic pickup.
Small cast aluminum housing is easy to mount in cramped compartments.



PN 5900

Blaster Ignition, PN 5900
For budget build-ups or economy daily drivers, the Blaster Ignition is your best choice. With a 7.5 amp inductive discharge, the Blaster provides a powerful spark at an affordable price. The Blaster creates a high current, long duration spark that efficiently burns the air/fuel mixture in the cylinder. The benefits are more power, easier starting, snappy throttle response and increased mileage. This single spark ignition will install easily to breaker points, late model computer equipped vehicles and magnetic pickup distributors such as the line of MSD Pro-Billet Distributors.

MSD Blaster Ignition
PN 5900


OPERATING SPECIFICATIONS FOR MSD BLASTER IGNITION
Operating Voltage: +12 VDC Negative Ground
Current Requirements: 7.5 Amps Max
RPM Range: 10,000 RPM (8 cyl.)
Spark Duration: 20° Crankshaft Rotation
Energy Output Max: 180 mJ Stored Energy (inductive ignition)
Weight and Size: 1.25 lbs, 6"Lx3.5"Wx1.75"H
Voltage Output Max: Primary: 420-450 Volts
Secondary: 40,000 Volts (Blaster Coil)
Here it is from Summit's website::

MSD-5900 MSD Blaster Ignitions
Ignition Box, MSD Blaster, Inductive, Economy, Red, Each
Instant Rebate Today $112.88

I think this is money in the bank when you consider the cost of fuel and how much you can save over the lifetime of the vehicle.

Good Luck, and I am taking my own advice and buying two of these for my 67 and 72, as I did not realize how cheap the entry level MSD boxes were for stock or slightly modified vehicles.

Later, Mike

[67chevemall]

I run the AC delcos I think the RS43's I gap them 42-45
I have the HEI ign.
I also am sold on the "cheap" MSD up grade.

[farside847]

Originally Posted by 70rs/ss

I'd shell it out for the upgraded equipment, as the savings will be big. With a better spark intensity you can open your gap to 45 thousands or more depending. I was using an MSD 6AL and gapped my plugs to 60 thou and if I am not mistaking the newer trucks run 60-65 thou from the factory with the new coil pack on plug technology. The MSD is pricey for your stocker, but they do have an entry level unit below:

Blaster Ignition, PN 5900

thanks for the advice!

Would that one be better than the multi-spark MSD 5200?

(from their site)
MSD 5 ignitions are an entry level, multiple spark ignition control for primarily stock applications. These inductive discharge ignitions are designed to produce a series of sparks below 3,000 rpm, instead of just one. This ensures that fuel is burned completely, providing more power, smooth idle, quick starts, and overall drivability improvements. These MSD 5 ignitions can be triggered using points or the electronic amplifier on late model vehicles.

$99 at summit.

[70rs/ss]

Originally Posted by farside847

thanks for the advice!

Would that one be better than the multi-spark MSD 5200?

(from their site)
MSD 5 ignitions are an entry level, multiple spark ignition control for primarily stock applications. These inductive discharge ignitions are designed to produce a series of sparks below 3,000 rpm, instead of just one. This ensures that fuel is burned completely, providing more power, smooth idle, quick starts, and overall drivability improvements. These MSD 5 ignitions can be triggered using points or the electronic amplifier on late model vehicles.

$99 at summit.

If that sounds good use it, the other one is only $10-20 more, but to be sure contact MSD directly and ask for tech they are better suited to answerthis one. I honestly think any one of these MSD 5's will fill the bill for you, the more expensive ones just have more bells and whistles. Cantact them @

TECH LINE: 915-855-7123

The MSD Tech Lines are now open Monday through Friday
7am to 6pm Mountain Standard Time

The tech guys at summit or Jegs might be able to help, but I try to source my answers from the manufacturer and then buy from Jegs or Summit. Good luck.

mike

[70rs/ss]

Originally Posted by farside847

thanks for the advice!

Would that one be better than the multi-spark MSD 5200?

(from their site)
MSD 5 ignitions are an entry level, multiple spark ignition control for primarily stock applications. These inductive discharge ignitions are designed to produce a series of sparks below 3,000 rpm, instead of just one. This ensures that fuel is burned completely, providing more power, smooth idle, quick starts, and overall drivability improvements. These MSD 5 ignitions can be triggered using points or the electronic amplifier on late model vehicles.

$99 at summit.

I read the description on the site, and this one is for bone stock, points or new ignition, but not HEI. So if you are stock points no upgrades this is good, but if you have bigger cam, carb, or HEI the 5900 is the ticket. good luck again.

mike

[4x4Poet]

Read the Pertronix Ignitor literature. Pertronix calls for a certain ohm range coil to be used with either of the Ignitor or the Ignitor II.

I have an original (1st gen) Ignitor for an IHC 392. The instructions say:
*The Ignitor is compatible with any "Point Type" aftermarket or OEM coil regardless of voltage output. The Ignitor does require a coil with a minimum of 1.5 OHMs resistance across the "+" and "-" of the coil.

CAUTION: NEVER use a "HEI" type coil with the Ignitor. This type of coil will provide too much current to the Ignitor, causing it to eventually "burn out" and fail, which will void your warranty. Remember, always use a coil with a MINIMUM of 1.5 OHMs. If a ballast resister is required, use the one recommended by the manufacturer...

...MSD SYSTEM COMPATIBILITY:
The Ignitor is compatible with MSD systems in the same manner as conventional points. The Ignitor red wire connects to the MSD small red wire and the Ignitor black wire connects to the MSD small white wire. Refer to your MSD instructions. Note: The MSD magnetic pickup wires are NOT used with the Ignitor.* Pertronix Flamethrower Coil matches the Ignitor's ohm rqmts..


I also have an Ignitor II, part# 91181 for a '71 350. No doubt it fits 69-74 GM V8 distributors. The Ignitor II instructions say it *can be used in conjunction with most ignition coils rated at 0.6 ohms or greater.* Pertronix Flamethrower II coil matches the Ignitor II's ohm rqmts.

The instructions also recommend removal of any ballast resistor to achieve optimum performance. The Ignitor II can be used with a ballast resistor, but at the sacrifice of some performance. The instructions lay out the wiring in either case.


I recommend going with a Pertronix Second Strike instead of a MSD full CD ignition system:
Summit's Second Strike offering
Jeg's Second Strike offering
Pertronix page

I like that the Second Strike retains the long burn efficiency of the inductive spark and just adds a second CD spark. Maybe none of these boxes are needed with an ignition system operating at optimum, but if they really work better than just a great coil and electronic distributor, this gives the best of both induction and CD ignition systems.

For the points fans.

[farside847]

Originally Posted by 70rs/ss

Cantact them @
TECH LINE: 915-855-7123

I called them and asked them for a recomendation. I told them about my stockish engine and that it really isnt a race engine and runs at pretty normal rpms. He said to go with a MSD 6200. He said they are much better. Not sure if he was trying to upsell me or what. Hmmmm. Maybe I should hold off for a while until I understand this better.

[farside847]

Getting back to the original topic.. (I get thrown off on tangents so easily

What spark plugs do you use? Splitfire, NGK, AC Delco, Accel? I have a hard
time believing all the hub-bub about the brands. Splitfire says that they improve
your MPG by 10-30%, NGK says the same thing. Do they really do anything?

thanks!

[70rs/ss]

I do not think it is an upsell, but more of a don't buy a deadend. These two part numbers we haver been talking about are very precise in the application and any upgrades etc would negate their use, so he is trying to get you to buy the better unit for future upgrades or mods so that the unit will still be useful. If you buy the 5200 or the 5900 either will work for your present set up, but if you put a 350, cam, intake, headers, etc these boxes will not help. If the 307 is it, and no upgrades with points use the 5200 if you have an hei use the 5900 and be happy. I'll probably buy the 6200 as I have biger cam, intake headers, etc. Good luck, and you can always call back and see if the next person tells you the same thing.

mike

[mplex2000]

I use either Autolite or NGK plugs (not the fancy ones). In my fast cars I run coppers, in my driver cars I run platinums. I just pulled a set of NGK platinums after 60k and they didn't need to be changed (matter of fact they almost looked new).

[4x4Poet]

I use AC plugs since many board members swear by them.

I've used a Jacobs CD system. It's literature specifically forbid the use of platinum plugs. Something to do with incompatibility. IIRC, the CD systems need the resistence provided by the copper core of common plugs. If you go MSD or other CD system, I recommend you ask about platinum plug compatibility.

Also, the Jacobs literature specifically mentioned that they tested their systems with common application plugs and with fancy plugs (Splitfire, etc.) They found no improvement using the expensive plugs, so the literature said one could use non-platinum, fancy plugs, but they weren't necessary to get optimum performance from Jacobs' system.

BTW, the Pertronix Ignitor and Ignitor II literature I have makes no mention of increasing the plug gap. But I also have a Flame-Thrower II coil. I didn't think to look at its literature when making the above post. The F-II instructions provide tentative advice:

* Spark plug gap
In stock applications, the manufacturer's recommended spark plug, and spark plug gap, will work best. For performance applications, the spark plug gap may be increased to take advantage of the extra energy produced by the Flame-Thrower II coil. Since PerTronix cannot test every configuration, the end user must determine what spark plug gap works best for their application.*

So, when I install the Ignitor II and Flame-Thrower II coil, I'll be doing a mileage test to find the optimum gap for saving gas $$. Obviously, one could also do any performance test to find the best gap for sheer power where you want it: Drag times, 40mph to 80mph times, or even dyno work.