Dropmember in a 69 C10

[onehot69stepside]

oh thank you for soapboxing! I enjoy people rattling off because I do it too. You completely answered my questions. And I totally understand what you are getting at with a one off peice being not as complicated. I really like the dropmember and if i had a stock frame still, I'd probably save up for one. I think my favorite part of the dropmember is the way the lower c-arms are sandwiched inside of the crossmemeber. Its a hell of a lot stronger than the factory u-bolts! I was thinking of getting impala spindles but I already have 2-inch drops so i think ill stick with what I got and the next time i have 800 bucks laying around ill have a rack modified to have more travel. Theres a company out there that does this but I forget the name of them. A hot rod shop here in town told me the name so i think ill ask them again.

[PBFAB.COM]

One company that I know of (and deal with) that will build a custom rack or modify one to your specs is Maval Manufacturing... AKA Unisteer. I highly recommend them!

[dstrbd71]

Thats what I cal a front end SWAPPAGE!!!!!!!!
Very nice work I must say!

[CryingJoker]

yeh thanx for askin bout big block rokcrln i was about to, guess i'll be one of those rarities....

[Rokcrln]

Originally Posted by CryingJoker

yeh thanx for askin bout big block rokcrln i was about to, guess i'll be one of those rarities....

No problem! I have been looking around for different front set up and this may just be it. I thought about MustangII which is a good desigh but our trucks are heavy and the basic MustangII set up has smaller spindles and brakes unless you want to spend major $ to up grade everything. Then I am also checking into Corvett suspention and I do like it but also it is alot of money just for doner parts + a install kit + labor from a qualified shop to install it for most guys and once it is in you are stuck for life. This Dropmember uses our stock parts (or improved after market parts just for our trucks) and has been narrowed just a bit for tire clearance. If you want to run it as is you can and then up grade later as $ allows to tubular arms, disk brakes or biger disk brakes and if for some reason you wanted to return to stock you would be able to with out way to much work. The reason I say this is because I am starting to design my 70 2wd blazer and can not decide if I want to go full custom on it or do a real clean stock look but dump it to the ground. My only concern is they are so rare for a factory 2wd I really do not want to much that would make it non returnable to stock if some one every wanted to but at the same time I can not drive a stock vehical So I am thinking this would be the best of both worlds. Then in my 71 SWB I have already spent the money for bags, disk's, big sway bars, drop spindles and so on but it is not as low as I want to go and I still have the tire clealance issue that I think this kit would fix.

So if anyone up in my area wants one of these installed I will do a great install price so I can check it out before buying a few for my own toys

Kevin
LFD Inc.

[Frizzle Fry]

If I ever do a "standard build" (i.e. use the truck frame) I'll go with one of these. In fact, when the '61 is done I should get one for the Burb... So they will work with big blocks no problem?

[Rokcrln]

Originally Posted by Frizzle Fry

So they will work with big blocks no problem?

We do not know yet!

Kevin
LFD Inc.

[PBFAB.COM]

OK- What's a big block? and what's a carborator? Just kidding! (I thought big blocks and carborators were forgotten when gas prices reached $3.00 a gallon ) I have not set this up with a big block. It can be done I am sure, but how much work it is I do not yet know. The obvious points of concern with running a big block with the Dropmember would be the firewall clearance and the steering shaft to header clearance. Small blocks with carbs will work just fine (the 63 panel is running that combo). The LS1 is actually a little bit larger than the traditional small block, and fits a lot tighter (If you want to run an LS1 you will need the f-body oil pan). The 350 in the panel had to come forward 2" and up 2" and has plenty of oil pan clearance and distributor to firewall clearance. I will be digging one of my own trucks (a 69) out of the back lot and be doing an install with a small block and turbo 350 trans so I can have some good pics for installation instructions (I am assuming this would be the most common combination to be run). I will be happy to post up more pics for all to see. I want to make sure everybody knows exactly what to expect when they purchase one of my Dropmembers. Keep the questions coming, and feel free to make suggestions or offer constructive criticism. The better I make this thing, the more people will buy it!

[SCOTI]

Are the outer tie-rod ends adjustable studs w/heims to correct for bumpsteer? How well do heims hold up to daily abuse?

Many states up north apparently frown upon heims used in suspensions. I just learned this recently while researching info about the 'B' spindle swap on GM cars. Guys were using parts similar to Baer Brakes 'bumpsteer eliminator' kits (heim ends) & having inspection issues.

[PBFAB.COM]

Originally Posted by SCOTI

Are the outer tie-rod ends adjustable studs w/heims to correct for bumpsteer? How well do heims hold up to daily abuse?

Many states up north apparently frown upon heims used in suspensions. I just learned this recently while researching info about the 'B' spindle swap on GM cars. Guys were using parts similar to Baer Brakes 'bumpsteer eliminator' kits (heim ends) & having inspection issues.

The outer tie-rod is a heavy duty 3/4 inch heim with a 5/8" hole (overkill). It uses a grade 8 5/8 bolt to go through the spindle, and misalignment spacers (maximize travel without binding, and supplied with kit). The bumpsteer was minimized in the design with the pieces supplied in the kit.
I have not heard of any inspection issues due to spherical bearings (heims) being used in suspension systems. I wouldn't know why it would be an issue. As far as durabilty and strength is concerned, spherical bearings (heims and uni-balls) are the first choice of many performance suspension systems. I have been debating having a tie-rod adapter sleeve made that allows the use of a stock outer tie-rod end, the only draw-back to this is the rack threads and the stock tie-rod threads will need to be trimmed for installation... Which sounds more appealing?

[onehot69stepside]

ok i know i'm probably trying to pick your brain a little too much but how did you get the front to be narrowed 4 inches over all. I posted some info in Valleycustoms post on his custom chassis and my ideas on my front suspension geometry. If you feel like leaking any info, enlighten me on my plans of using a rack n pinion and how i plan to keep the factory geometry. I dont mind how they drive in stock form. Anything is better than my butt load of bumpsteer I have now.

[PBFAB.COM]

I sell the rod end spacers (misalignment spacers) for the heims. PM me for more info on the spacers and your suspension geometry questions. As for the dropmember being narrowed, it's not quite four inches. The geometry was designed utilizing stock spindles and arms and a mustangII rack. In order to get the bumpsteer where I wanted, the lower control arm pivot points needed to move inboard, which was fine by me. When these trucks are slammed they need to be narrowed up a bit for additional tire to fender/hood clearances.(Less than .1 degrees of bumpsteer per inch of travel is considered "acceptable" in the world of race car suspension design. Their end goal is to have as little bumpsteer as possible so I too accept their standard as .1 degree per inch of travel as acceptable) The dropmember has much less than .1 degree of bumpsteer per inch of bump (compression), and just under .1 degrees of bumpsteer per inch of droop (extension). For those who have no idea what I am talking about, bumpsteer is an issue common to steering and suspension changes. The location of all the suspension pivot points work together to create the suspension geometry. If not located properly, adverse steering and suspension movements take effect, making the vehicle steer and handle poorly, and often dangerously. Bumpsteer is a term used for the steering of the vehicle. It is apparent when steering linkage pivot points are not located in harmony with the control arm pivot points and as the vehicle's suspension goes through its travel, the steering wants to toe in or out. This condition can cause some strange and sometimes dangerous results.

[72CSTC5]

Had to chime in here because I am such a big car nut and a perfectionist but DAMN, Porter, that has to be some of the nicest fab work and welds that I have ever seen. I hope you are getting paid for what you do. Good honest work not butched up is hard to come by. Keep up the good work and keep the pics coming. Just bought a 72 cheyenne short wide to be a stable mate to my 72 2wd Blazer so maybe the Blazer will get your new front end and pass the Blazer to the truck for daily driving chores. How much do you think realistically money wise with steering joints and all for the kit to install, bags and all?

[PBFAB.COM]

Originally Posted by 72CSTC5

Had to chime in here because I am such a big car nut and a perfectionist but DAMN, Porter, that has to be some of the nicest fab work and welds that I have ever seen. I hope you are getting paid for what you do. Good honest work not butched up is hard to come by. Keep up the good work and keep the pics coming. Just bought a 72 cheyenne short wide to be a stable mate to my 72 2wd Blazer so maybe the Blazer will get your new front end and pass the Blazer to the truck for daily driving chores. How much do you think realistically money wise with steering joints and all for the kit to install, bags and all?

Dropmember $1200 (comes with everything you need minus the following)
-Rack and Pinion (it must be Mustang II all years will bolt right up to the member) $250 (this can vary depending on what brand or style of rack you buy. Power or manual rack, close ratio, bla, bla, bla.)
-Steering Shaft and Linkage $300 (you can use 3 joints or only 2 by buying the "expensive" double u-joint for the column shaft end. An idler is needed either way)
-Bags $75-$100 each, depending on where you buy them
-Shocks $50-$75

My calculations say about $2000 plus tubular arms (recommended, not necessary). I will be putting together a "package deal" and will post it up when my supercomputer spits out the calculation!
If you go power rack it'll be more for lines and pump.

[smbrouss70]

porterbuilt, I have a few questions that I don't think have been answered yet.

1) What needs to be modified on the stock lower control arms? If my wife lets me spend the money to get this, she definately won't let me spring for tubular arms at the same time.

2) Do the engine mounts come with it or are they extra?

3) What needs to be done to the tranny x-member? Just raising it and moving it forward?

Thanks

[PBFAB.COM]

Originally Posted by smbrouss70

porterbuilt, I have a few questions that I don't think have been answered yet.

1) What needs to be modified on the stock lower control arms? If my wife lets me spend the money to get this, she definately won't let me spring for tubular arms at the same time.

2) Do the engine mounts come with it or are they extra?

3) What needs to be done to the tranny x-member? Just raising it and moving it forward?

Thanks

1) The stock lower control arms will contact the dropmember's lower control arm shaft mounting block at the edges when dumped. The stock lower control arms will need to be trimmed a little to avoid contact. Also, a mounting plate for the air spring will need to be attached (I will be able to supply this for a little extra). I will post up a pic of this the beginning of next week.

2) The engine mounts WILL be part of the kit (I don't have any made yet for a traditional small block). All the installs I have currently done are for the GenIII motors (LS1). I will be installing another dropmember in a 69 this month, and it will be running a 350/400 combo. I will use the mounts from this install as a pattern for the kit.

3) The trans crossmember moves up and forward. I am sure the original can be modified. I will also be offering a tubular one with the kit at an additional charge.

[Rokcrln]

Sounds like it will be a great kit with well thought out options to boot! I want to see it air'd up with a tape showing full lift and full drop...

On a side note that I am sure you guys will enjoy. Doday in Winters Ca. the 100 cars doing the 2006 Great Race from Philadelphia, Pa. to San Rafael, Ca. drove into town today for a few hours on their last leg of the race. Alot of great ols race cars and a few hot rods. I was lucky enough to get a few moments to talk with Jerry & Judy Kugel of Kugel Komponents as well as Frank & Evelyn Currie of Currie Enterprises. Both driving sweet 32 ford roadsters. Currie's was old school solid front axel running a 400 Rodeck all alum blown small block pushing 575Hp - 596 ft. lbs. Torque. Kugel was running his independent front and rear set up with a healthy 302. He has had this car since 1968!

Sorry I had to share this with someone and I thought you all would understand...

Kevin
LFD Inc.

[jimmydean]

Hey porterbuilt, nice spread in this months Classic Trucks! That thing is so nice! I don't think the pictures they have do it justice though.

[PBFAB.COM]

Originally Posted by jimmydean

Hey porterbuilt, nice spread in this months Classic Trucks! That thing is so nice! I don't think the pictures they have do it justice though.

Thanks Jimmydean. I haven't stopped smiling since I opened up the mailbox yesterday! I don't know why, but for some reason the color just doesn't print well?????? It always has a flat sheen to it, or looks a wierd purple. Nevertheless, I am more than ecstatic about the deal!

[jimmydean]

Originally Posted by porterbuilt

Thanks Jimmydean. I haven't stopped smiling since I opened up the mailbox yesterday! I don't know why, but for some reason the color just doesn't print well?????? It always has a flat sheen to it, or looks a wierd purple. Nevertheless, I am more than ecstatic about the deal!

I think the color looks better in your photos and I didn't think the angles they used showed enough detail.

Either way, congrats on the cover and I look forward to seeing the C10 on the cover shot in the near future.

[culookn]

what year control arms/spindles do you use for the dropped member? i was concerned about this when it comes to chooseing a brake package for the front end.

[PBFAB.COM]

The dropmemebr will use either 63-72 style arms/sindles or the 73-87 style (they all bolt up the same, 63-72 use a different ball joint than 73-87). It was designed to use Air Ride Tech.'s Strong Arms, but will work with stock or other aftermarket tube arms with some mods to the arms. (I was supposed to post up a pic of a stock lower arm and wher it needs to be trimmed, wasn't I... tomorrow hopefully )

Whatever brake package you go with, just make sure the arms you get/have will work with the spindles you get.

[culookn]

can someone buy the drop member kit without the front bag mounts ? does it have the a arm mounts welded on top of it?

[PBFAB.COM]

Originally Posted by culookn

can someone buy the drop member kit without the front bag mounts ? does it have the a arm mounts welded on top of it?

Why would you not want the bag mounts on it?... Coil-over?.. Shockwave? I can definitely sell it without the bag mount on it if that is requested. Here is a pic of what they would look like without the bag mount... and one with the bag mount.

[bgeraurd]

Hey will those fit in duallys? I want to make a one ton tow rig that lays frame but I dont want to z the frame. Could I modify the contral arms to fit?