Remote Starter Solonoid, someone check my homework please.

[Zonaman]

I'm wiring up a remote starter solonoid using a firewall mounted unit from an '87 Crown Vic.

Have I got this right? See below

1. Remove the cable from the positive battery terminal on the starter mounted solonoid and move it to one of the battery posts on new one on the firewall.
2. Connect another battery cable from the other battery post on the firewall solonoid to the battery post on the starter mounted solonoid.
3. Remove the ignition switch wire from the "S" terminal on the starter mounted solonoid and re-route it to the "S" terminal on the fire wall mounted solonoid.

Also, does it matter which battery post on the fire wall mounted solonid I use for which battery cable? Will mounting the solonoid to the firewall be sufficinet to ground it?

[airdale94]

I think you need to jumper the S term. to Batt. on the starter also.

How's the weather in Phoenix? I know..beautiful! Lived out there twice. But always end up back in Topeka. Oh well third times a charm.

[48 ish]

I did this on both my 67 and the 48. It makes no dif which bat cable you put which terminal. There should be no additional grounging required. And don't forget the jumper from the "s" terminal on the starter to the bat terminal on the started. Good thinking, this works great, no more having to pop the hood and jump the thing to get it started.......

[Sinister]

[Zonaman]

Originally Posted by airdale94

I think you need to jumper the S term. to Batt. on the starter also.

How's the weather in Phoenix? I know..beautiful! Lived out there twice. But always end up back in Topeka. Oh well third times a charm.

Phoenix weather is "chamber of commerce stuff right now." Thank you all for responding. So looks like (Sinister's diagram) a wire from the "S" terminal on the starter solonoid to the Battery terminal on the Ford solonoid will accomplish the "need to jumper the S term. to Batt. " Same guage (looks like 12) as current "S" wire? If I'm reading the wiring diagram right, purple is the correct color ?

Thanks again.

[krue]

Here's how I would do it if it were me.

[krue]

Less wiring (lower cost and less to get against a manifold and melt, etc).

[VetteVet]

Here's another version of Krue's. It allows connections to the positive side of the battery at the solenoid without crowding the battery terminal. The thing to remember is the whole purpose of the remote solenoid is to provide a full 12 volts to the starter solenoid by eliminating the voltage drop on the purple wire hooked to "S". The shorter this wire is the lower the voltage drop.

[Sinister]

Originally Posted by krue

Here's how I would do it if it were me.

Come to think of it that is how I did mine on my old '72. I jumpered the s and battery terminal on the starter with a flat piece of steel with a couple of holes drilled in it...

[Zonaman]

12 guage ok for the short jumper from S to Bat.?

[Andy4639]

This shows the battery hot all the way to the starter all the time. I don't think this is the right way to do it. A solenoid is only a electric device to turn on /off another device that draws lot's of juice.
The red wire from battery should run between both of the bigger terminals and the activating circuit should run between the two smaller terminals of the solenoid. These are two seperate circuits.

[fastom]

Sinister is RIGHT, the Ford solenid is being used as a type of relay just to get 12V to the "S" terminal. The Ford solenid is not being used as the starter solenoid.

[herb101]

Originally Posted by fastom

Sinister is RIGHT, the Ford solenid is being used as a type of relay just to get 12V to the "S" terminal. The Ford solenid is not being used as the starter solenoid.

Then why use a big clucky Ford solenoid? If that is true, a Bosch relay would do the same thing much more elegantly.

The Ford unit IS the new solenoid and you BYPASS the original solenoid function at the starter with the shorting bar. That is how this corrects a hot start problem. The hot start issue prevents the S terminal at the factory solenoid from properly functioning due to an increase in resistance in the windings as a result in an increase in ambient temperature. This would still be a problem if the S terminal was stilled used at the stock solenoid location.

Herb

[Zonaman]

Originally Posted by herb101

Then why use a big clucky Ford solenoid? If that is true, a Bosch relay would do the same thing much more elegantly.

Herb

You mean like this:



Let me guess why people would use the solonoid: Easier to start with a screw driver & easier to get a remote start switch on it.

[fastom]

A relay won't work because of the amp load, the ford solenoid is the better part.

The bottom part of the diagram sinister posted is the one to use. Either that or use ten guage wire from the battery to the Ford solenoid "A" post, the same wire size from the Ford solenoid post "B" down to the "S" post on the truck starter.

I have used this setup with just ten guage wire in a vehicle for over 12 years with no problems.

[airdale94]

When you buy a "Hot Start" kit, from like Summit. What you get is the remote (Ford) solenoid, a small flat piece of steel to jumper the "S" and Batt. term on your starter's solenoid, and instructions that say to run your purple wire to the remote solenoid.

As for grounding of the remote solenoid, just make sure you scrape the paint off around the screw holes and you should be fine. That's what it says to do in the instructions if you buy a kit.

[Andy4639]

The reason for a solenoid to be used in a electric system is for amp draw on high voltage circuits. The two bigger studs on the Ford solenoid are for the high amp load. The two smaller terminals are for the actavation circuit. Which is usally lower amp's.
I have wired plenty of solenoids on golfcarts ranging in the 36,48,72 to 120 volt range with 450, 500 amp's. The solenoid is just a on/off switch that uses a small amount of voltage like 12 volts low amps to activate it.

This is a solenoid rated for 90 volts top's, I have 72 volts running through it. It's activated by 48 volts the sonenoid see's 450 amps when I stomp on it at take off. It's $90.00 and rebuildable also it will handle about anything you throw at it. It's rated at 600amp's



If you have it wired like the drawing I copied in my first post the high amp load is running through the small wire going to the starter's "S" terminal. This will burn it up sooner I would think from the high amp load.


The A and B terminals should be isolated from the frame ground by design. The battery wire should run to the A post of ford solenoid then from the B post to the starter. The NSS should run to the S terminal of the ford solenoid then back to the negative of Battery out of the I of the ford solenoid or to frame to complete the circuit. Then put the jumper between the starter studs as before.


Now is everybody confused!!!

[krue]

The drawing and the text don't agree.

The battery wire should run to the A post of ford solenoid then from the B post to the starter.

The drawing shows To A, from A to starter. The one I posted shows the way you describe.

[68C15]

am I missing something here? from what I see you are still relying on the starter's pull-in and hold-in windings to operate the starter mounted solenoid. just placing another current limiting corrosion inviting switch into the mix doesn't make sense to me. (on the average you loose 0.2V per connection and then figure in the resistance of the extra wire length)

[Boog]

Fellas those are some nice drawings you've shown of the remote starter relay kit for the hard start problem some vehicles experience. Now I'm no electrician and don't know anything about high amp and low amp draw and all but I've always owned GM vehicles and I've not found it necessary to mod the factory wiring on any of them to get them to start when hot. It is my understanding the problem is heat sink at the starter. I am familiar with the no start condition when hot with small and big block engines. Often this would start to occur in less than 2 years on GM cars of the 60s and 70s.
A local German starter/ alternator repairman had the cure. The factory starters were too weak to overcome the heat sink hot start problem so he beefed them up almost doubling their power. He explained to me the stock starter came with 2 fields and 2 shunts. He replaced the 2 shunts with 2 more fields making it 4 fields. Of all the starters he built for us and I'm talking about dozens never once did one fail to startup at first try and lasted for years and years and was easier on the battery too. He was aware of the "kit" GM and some parts stores were selling as the fix and scoffed at it. " it's a patch and a gimmick to sell parts that weren't necessary he said. Wiring this kit into the vehicle just added more electrical connections and switch to give a problem later on." He usually charged us about $30 to beef one up back then. I suggest instead of going to "the zone" or advance or bumper for your next starter make a stop at your local starter rebuild shop and see if they can build a stout one for you or buy one of the high torque minis instead of using one of these kits. It will be easier on the cables and battery and alternator.

[barn9]

Kit with complete diagram: http://www.madelectrical.com/catalog/st-1.shtml


This guy writes for automotive magazines, came up with this kit several years ago. If you don't know exactly what you are doing, I highly recommend going this route and saving yourself some trouble. His diagrams are correct and easy to follow and understand, and everything you need is in the kit. I talked to him on the phone once, sharp guy and knows his stuff.

[Andy4639]

krue,
That's what I was saying. The drawing was wrong for the intended use. Not your drawing the first one posted.

[krue]

Gotcha. The drawing you showed in the last post kinda defeats the purpose to me. What I would like to find is a starter w/o the solenoid (kind like the furd ones) that would work on our trucks. With the remote soleniod you can still have the original solenoid to fail on you.

[Zonaman]

Thanks again to everyone who responded. I'm going with Krue's suggestion. Seems to be the way the kits wire up.

[krue]

Originally Posted by Zonaman

Thanks again to everyone who responded. I'm going with Krue's suggestion. Seems to be the way the kits wire up.

Thanks for the vote of confidence. Write a FAQ with pics while you're at it.