Factory A/C or aftermarket??

[ChevLoRay]

My truck has factory A/C, although it only worked for a few months after I bought it nine years ago. Now that my truck is disassembled and I have to remove the A/C plenum from the firewall, I'm wondering if I should plan on just replacing that original system with an aftermarket system. The new units are much cleaner under the hood than factory units.

So, who has an opinion and what is your take on this?

[Boog]

I'm not near ready for air on mine but am interested in all I can find out on the Vintage Airs and others. Some have pointed out having the fan motor inside the cab there is more interior noise. Then there is the cost. You can spend $1300 or more for the aftermarket one or a couple of hundred to update the factory unit. For an occasional driver I'm not real concerned with a/c. Maybe later down the road.
I kinda like rolling with the windows down, vent windows cranked out and listening to those Cherry Bombs sounding off behind. Yeah buddy!

[SactoJim]

Mine had Factory AC as well but I chose to go with vintage air to clean up the firewall. The fan is louder, but the AC works so well that you don't always need the fan on high and besides the stereo drowns it out anyway.

[67dragtruck]

Originally Posted by SactoJim

Mine had Factory AC as well but I chose to go with vintage air to clean up the firewall. The fan is louder, but the AC works so well that you don't always need the fan on high and besides the stereo drowns it out anyway.

That's a very nice and clean engine bay. Nice work. What did you line the inside of the hood with? Looks like the same sound deadener that you'd use on the inside.

Tom

[ChevLoRay]

SactoJim, that's clean....and it's what I'd like to have mine resemble. I'm kinda like Boog, too. Even with the current heat that we have here in Arkansas, 'taint nothin' for me to roll with my windows down in my DD. Yeah, it's hot and humid. North CA is nice, but I know you guys get some heat, too.

Are you headed to Hot August Nights? Did I miss when it's supposed to be?

[big_al_71]

I spent the $1,300 dollars plus shipping on the kit from classic auto air.We installed one on my friends 72 camaro and I was very impressed by the kit so after I bought my 71c10 I decided that as I am doing my engine swap I will also add this kit I have had it for a little over a month just sitting in my garage, cant wait to finish this truck, I wonder does it ever end?

[70cst]

I think the key is if you want to stay factory or not. Mine has factory ac and I am trying to keep my truck close to factory. I have changed to front disc brakes and soon rear disc brakes and did a 3/5" drop but otherwise i want it to look close to stock. To me either way is a winner. On a side note I was told the one advantge with factory ac is the abilty to defrost the front windows. Not sure if this is an issue but others with more knowledge can respond. ChevLoRay I agree with you...SactoJim has a nice looking install. Nice job.

[ksjh1316]

Originally Posted by 70cst

I think the key is if you want to stay factory or not. Mine has factory ac and I am trying to keep my truck close to factory. I have changed to front disc brakes and soon rear disc brakes and did a 3/5" drop but otherwise i want it to look close to stock. To me either way is a winner. On a side note I was told the one advantge with factory ac is the abilty to defrost the front windows. Not sure if this is an issue but others with more knowledge can respond. ChevLoRay I agree with you...SactoJim has a nice looking install. Nice job.

I know the vintage air system will defrost your windows as well that is one of the reasons I am using it as well as the better cooling and less hp drain with the compressor. I also love the fact I can use factory controllers.

[oldspowered]

i plan on using the stock a/c with mine and i'm even doing a 350 olds in it. all the factory compressor being the same should bolt right into the olds 350 a/c brackets.

[steelhorse]

The original systems use R12 refrigerant that can be hard to come by in some areas.They also dont work as well if converted to R134.The newer systems are designed to work with R134 and cool better with it,plus you get to shave your firewall.

[mrein3]

Originally Posted by steelhorse

The original systems use R12 refrigerant that can be hard to come by in some areas.They also dont work as well if converted to R134.The newer systems are designed to work with R134 and cool better with it,plus you get to shave your firewall.

Fact: R12 is expensive and hard to get for a do-it-yourselfer.
Fact: Factory systems don't work well with R134a without adjustments.
Fact: You can retro your factory system to work well with R134a.

You need to adjust the POA. I wish I had a dollar for every time I've posted a link to this thread:
http://www.autoacforum.com/messagevi...&threadid=7567
I don't work for ackits or for that forum, however it is a useful post.

1. Adjust your POA as specified in the link. (Free)
2. Get a kit that contains all new o-rings for your AC connections. ($10)
3. Purchase a new receiver/dryer ($30)
4. Purchase 4 cans of R134a at Wal*Mart (4@$6.50)
5. Get as much of the old oil out of the system. Flush the compressor, flush the condensor, flush the evaporator.
6. Pour 11 oz of R134a compatible oil in. ($25/quart)
7. Evacuate the system.
8. Dump the 4 cans of R134a in.

Put the remaining $1200 you saved over the $1300 for the cost of an aftermarket kit into something useful like an OD tranny, new engine, etc.

[SCOTI]

Originally Posted by mrein3

Fact: R12 is expensive and hard to get for a do-it-yourselfer.
Fact: Factory systems don't work well with R134a without adjustments.
Fact: You can retro your factory system to work well with R134a.

You need to adjust the POA. I wish I had a dollar for every time I've posted a link to this thread:
http://www.autoacforum.com/messagevi...&threadid=7567
I don't work for ackits or for that forum, however it is a useful post.

1. Adjust your POA as specified in the link. (Free)
2. Get a kit that contains all new o-rings for your AC connections. ($10)
3. Purchase a new receiver/dryer ($30)
4. Purchase 4 cans of R134a at Wal*Mart (4@$6.50)
5. Get as much of the old oil out of the system. Flush the compressor, flush the condensor, flush the evaporator.
6. Pour 11 oz of R134a compatible oil in. ($25/quart)
7. Evacuate the system.
8. Dump the 4 cans of R134a in.

Put the remaining $1200 you saved over the $1300 for the cost of an aftermarket kit into something useful like an OD tranny, new engine, etc.

This is assuming that everything in that 'original' system is in tip-top working order. Start replacing some of those original parts & costs can escalate quickly. I've heard of people spending $400-500 on evaps or condensors & flushing their OE systems only to have the system work like a/c in a 30+yr old vehicle because other parts aren't quite as fresh.

Also.... I've heard the comment mentioned more than once about the concern for aftermarket systems having the blower motor inside the vehicle. Many modern vehicles also have the blower inside & it doesn't seem to be an issue.

I like these trucks w/only one kind of a/c....... cold .

[Black_Duck]

mrein3 You sir are the man that's an awesome A/C site, they should ask to copy and stiky some of that stuff on this site it's great for those of us that want to keep a stock apperance and get good performance.

[ChevLoRay]

My system is a complete system. I have all of the original parts, and it's all 39 years old. I have another control panel, from a swap meet. The compressor would have to be rebuilt/replaced. There are aftermarket (Sanden) compressors sold that have engine-specific mountings, so that wouldn't be a problem. I have to remove the entire A/C assembly from the firewall to do som repair on the firewall. Seeing how clean SactoJim's firewall is, is a reason to go with an aftermarket unit. I already have the outlets in the dash. Having the blower inside the cab is not a big deal. I don't understand that argument at all. The blower in my Tundra is inside. It's a lot easier to replace (had to do that) than the blower in my '69. I don't have any good ideas about how much of the componetry of my original system will have to be replaced...housings, POA valve, compressor is a given, and the condensor may be okay. The system had been sealed, but the refrigerant had leaked out. The hoses will have to be replaced. So, you can see why my thinking is toward a new unit, as opposed to re-habbing the original. When the truck is finished, it won't be a restoration. I'm intending to cut the dash to install a DIN-sized radio (!)...the flame paint won't look original. It's been lowered. I'm not after a restoration or a concours show truck. I want it to be usable in every sense. The stock A/C system just takes up so much room under the hood, that doing any maintenance on the engine can become a real pretzel-bending exercise. At my age, I'm no longer a contortionist.

So, from experiences, the best aftermarket HVAC unit is....?

[SactoJim]

Originally Posted by 67dragtruck

That's a very nice and clean engine bay. Nice work. What did you line the inside of the hood with? Looks like the same sound deadener that you'd use on the inside.

Tom

Thanks Tom.......You're right about the hood insulation. Used some high temp 3M spray adhesive and also fabbed a little aluminum strap to run up the center rib. Also use stack tape around the perimeter (real sticky tape used to seal paint booth exhaust stacks).

Originally Posted by ChevLoRay

SactoJim, that's clean....and it's what I'd like to have mine resemble. I'm kinda like Boog, too. Even with the current heat that we have here in Arkansas, 'taint nothin' for me to roll with my windows down in my DD. Yeah, it's hot and humid. North CA is nice, but I know you guys get some heat, too.

Are you headed to Hot August Nights? Did I miss when it's supposed to be?

Thanks......don't have the humidity here but it's gets plenty fricken hot! Hot August nights started this weekend and will run through next weekend.

[stope4]

Sounds like you want the aftermarket. Go ahead and do it. It will be just as cold and you'll have enough room in your engine bay to sleep. I've had both, Vintage and original. R12 and 134a for factory and 134a for Vintage. I will never own another Vintage. It gets cold but it ain't that good. And when you add in the noise and the fogged windows every morning, forget about it. With that said, if I owned a truck that wasn't a factory ac truck, I would get one of the aftermarket ac systems. But with an original ac truck, it's factory all the way. No questions. On these trucks working around the evaporator box is easy and I have a 396. Try it with a camaro, it's nearly impossible.

I just completed a conversion today using original stuff. It's my truck and I've been messing with a leak in the ac for a while. Went with a new parrallel flow condensor, made for 134a. It's a bolt in kit from Classic Air in Florida. It's really nice and bolts directly to exising mounting holes. It cost $299 and included mounting brackets, dryer and hoses. I didn't use all the hoses. Only used the hose from the condensor to the expansion valve. I kept and used all other original hoses. Here's Classics link http://www.classicautoair.com/CPickup6772.asp

Unfortunately I had to buy a new evaporator, but the old one was leaking at the expansion valve and I got tired of replacing o'rings thinking I would get it this time. It always kept leaking. My choice was rebuild at Classic Air or new from Old Air products in Dallas. I chose new at $199. here's the link for Old Air
http://www.oldairproducts.com/catalo...00_801_8011971

I adjusted my POA to 26.5 lbs, changed the o'rings, evacuated, flushed and charged that baby up with about 4 can of 134a. . Oh yeh, I also used an oil from ac kits called BVA 100. I think it's a pretty common oil for ACs but I bought the stuff from them for $5.00. My ac is cold. As cold as R12. I don't have a lot of noise in cab. My windows don't fog in the morning, I didn't need new brackets for a Sanden compressor. Unfortunately, I can't sleep under my hood but then again I don't think it looks right without the factory evaporator box. And my ac is cold. Real cold!

[SCOTI]

Originally Posted by stope4

.... I've had both, Vintage and original. R12 and 134a for factory and 134a for Vintage. I will never own another Vintage. It gets cold but it ain't that good. And when you add in the noise and the fogged windows every morning, forget about it.

Could you elaborate on what you mean by this comment?

[72highlander]

i've also seen evaporator conversion kits for the old system that keep the factory theme but update the system to work well.

[cdowns]

newer ac use far less power than the 40yo original systems converting into a significant MPG difference in the 2systems// it pretty much boils down to do you want a factory correct or do you go for efficency and mpg, either system installed and maintained correctly will keep you cool

[ChevLoRay]

POA valves....

My shop manual says there are no adjustments, yet stopes4 adjusted his to 26.5psi. Interesting. Shop manual says we have to replace them if the pressures are out of limits and other parameters apply.

It isn't that I want to necessarily use an aftermarket system. Lord knows that A/C is almost mandatory if we intend to use our vehicles in the summer. It makes cruisin' to a meet, show or other venue a more pleasant task. As for me, I like the sounds of a nice engine/exhaust when the windows are down.

I really don't know what I want to do, nor do I know how much of my system can be rehabbed or will have to be replaced.

There are good arguments for either set-up, but Vintage Air gettin' dissed ain't the first time it has been heard. It's a given that the compressor will have to be replaced, and these newer compressors should be more efficient than the old six-cylinder factory compressors.

[Andy4639]

I bought the new compressor and condensor, acumalator and hoses for my old system. I'm running 134-A in it and it works fine. I put a late model 70 I think it's a 78 truck system inside the box. I took the POA valve out of the system and it works great.

New Condensor:


New Compressor:


New Acumlator:

[mrein3]

Originally Posted by ChevLoRay

POA valves....

My shop manual says there are no adjustments, yet stopes4 adjusted his to 26.5psi. Interesting. Shop manual says we have to replace them if the pressures are out of limits and other parameters apply.

stuff deleted

Follow that link I posted above. If you look closely at the picture you'll see a mini breaker bar with an extension sticking out of the end of the POA. If you look in that end of the POA you'll see a way to adjust it.

It has been years since I adjusted mine but if memory serves a quarter turn on the adjuster will get you from 29 to 26 and vice versa.

[stope4]

Scoti, every morning when I turned the ac system on the windows would fog up. I guess there was condensation forming in the evaporator box through the heater valve. It was minor but very annoying. Vintage told me I needed to adjust the valve. After spending 6 months adjusting the valve, I just gave up. As for the noise, well, these trucks are loud enough without adding noise to the cab. When you put the fan motor in the cab what you are doing is adding noise. Another minor issue but to me annoying.

As for added horsepower and efficiency. If you're racing you shouldn't have ac on the truck anyway. If you want to gain mpg, the Sanden ain't going to give you much. My first truck with a 350 cu in engine and the Sanden compressor got 12 miles/gallon. My truck today with 396 and A6 compressor gets 12 miles/gallon. The Sanden is lighter and supposedly more efficient, but I can't equate that to saving me anything. That's just words. I need facts and I don't have any. I'm sure there's some truth to this, I just have never found anything to show me what it saves me. And, if the sanden is what you want, Classic Air sells a conversion block that allows you to hook your hoses up to the back of the Sanden but you have to get rid of the muffler system. This will mean you need new hoses coming off the compressor.

The link above does have the adjustment procedure in it. It's really simple and it does work. Why the factory said they weren't adjustable I'll never know because the service manual discusses pressure from the POA.

The ac I have now was converted to 134a by the previous owner and it never really blew cold like we like. I tinkered with it and fixed a few leaks thinking that the previous owner adjusted the POA. In other words I didn't check it. Finally, after charging and rechargin the system because of a leak I couldn't resolve, I decided to replace some things I had heard would help get this thing cold. That's when I replaced the condensor, evaporator (only because it was the cause of the leak) and checked and adjusted my POA. I can tell you this thing blows cold. As cold as the factory. Hell, the other evening I had to put it on low and adjust the temperature slide a little.

Good luck with all. It's a tough decision. The first time I used Vintage I labored over this decision also. But because I have used factory with R12, factory with 134a and Vintage with 134a, if I have a vintage truck or car that was facory original ac, I'll go with factory.

[Arad68]

I have Vintage Air in my 68 and it gets very cool. I would have to say it is comparable to the factory A/C in my Trans Am. The noise in the Cab and inside passenger compartment are comparable. They are both noisy, but only on high. They both get so cold that it can be uncomfortable inside.

The A6 compressor, even with my built 455, drags on it noticably. I notice very little drag with the Sanden on my 383.
My main reason I went with Vintage Air in my 68 was it didn't come with A/C to start with. I compared prices with adding Factory and aftermarket and they roughly came out to be close.

Vintage air is hands down easiest to install.

I put factory air in a friends 71 and it was a drag. Finding new parts is hard too. With Vintage Air all you have to do is call them and your parts are on the way.

Two major factors to either and are common mistakes:

Insuring sufficient airflow over the condensor and making sure the Cab or passenger compartment has no leaks to let hot air in.

Even with my leaky cab, Vintage air cools it well.

I think even if I had Factory Air I would chuck in in favor of Vintage Air or Old Air. Just my .02

[jorgensensc]

I installed Vintage Air in my previous '72. I absolutely loved it and will never have a stock A.C. system in another older truck unless it already is present and in working condition. As for adding stock A.C. to a non A.C. cab, it will be some work. the openings in the firewall are completely different and will require modification. I agree the absolute easiest way to add A.C is with a Vintage air setup. Most mechanically inclined people can do it in a weekend without much hassle. Remember you will also get tech support if you have any problems with it later down the line. As for resale values, if I was looking at two trucks that are not 100% restored, and one had stock A.C. and the other had Vintage A.C., I would take the VA truck any day. You just don't know how well the older stack system will hold up. I also experienced the fogging of the windows in the morning with the VA system. It never took more than 3-5 minutes to resolve (while warming the truck up anyway), and was really more of a mixing of heat and cold temps to dehumidify the heat coming out of the vents. That is what A.C. is after all... Air Conditioning. If you mix the two cool and heat a little it clears the fog right up. That is what the defrost does on newer cars, they just have a fancy button that mixes them for you. This is just my two cents, but it is from experience. I usually had to keep the fan on low because on high it would freeze me out in the cab. If I put it on high I didn't really care how loud it was, I needed to cool down quick. With that said I never had to drive around with it on high, and when it was on high, it never seemed any louder than any other newer vehicle I have driven with the A.C. on high.
Shawn