Frame swap? Just crossmember? How about that transmission?

[63whoopie]

Hey y'all. I'm new to the forum after lurking and reading for a few months. I have more than a few questions about alot of topics, many of which have already been covered and I just haven't found them yet (I may even boggle you with some origional [stupid] questions too.)

While reading my muses, keep in mind:

I am a college student, but college and home are in the same town; as such, I have access to my own 4 car garage, so I have a place to work and store some parts.
My tool selection, thanks to multiple elderly deceased relatives, is fairly complete for a 19 year old. I lack a welder and a air compressor and related tools, both of which I am looking to purchase as soon as I get an idea of what to get. Welder I am looking for a used one, MIG obviously, Lincoln? Miller?, should I go 110 or must it be 220? What duration/cycle/amps/ thickness weldable/ shielded or unshielded etc mumbo-jumbo should I be looking for? I don't know much besides some general info, but am quite excited to learn to weld and hope to be able to do my own cab floors and other tasks (framework?). On the compressor, also used, I figgure a 30 or 40 gallon oilless craftsman or something... forgot the other stats.... will get my by. I am ok waiting for it to catch up, will not run a paint gun, just need it for cutoff wheel, impact wrench, air ratchet, etc. I work part-time and pay 2 vehicle payments, gas, etc, except for college, so I am not very affluent. These tools will be a study in compromising quality with affordability.

My questions, round 1-

1. Been looking into swapping one of the various 73-87 crossmembers onto my frame to give me disc brakes, 5lug, better ride, stronger frame, etc. Thought it would be just as cheap to buy someone's old truck and then junk what I don't need. I also could get the metal bed floor and weld it in in place of my completely- rotted wood bed floor. I was looking around craigslist, and found a 1989 reg cab SWB, minus engine and tranny, grill, and bench seat. I was wondering, could I just move my old body onto that frame, with minimal mounting modification? From what i understand, the 1989's frame is 1.5 inches longer; I have no idea about width or mounting points or anything other than what I have said there. If I swapped the whole thing, it would give me discs, a limited-slip rear, and all 5-lugs (instead of 5 lug front from a newer truck and stock 6 lug rear), already run brake lines, no suspension geometry to fool with,etc? I do not know how to weld, but am very willing to learn, and have some friends and family who can assist via phone or a 30 minute drive if I get too screwed up. Help, ideas, and the collective voices of experience here would be appreciated.

2. I want to keep the 6 cly, but the 3-on-the-tree non-overdrive is killing me. I was looking into doing the t-5 swap from a 4.3 s10. Found a t-5 on craiglsist for $50.00, but it's electric speedo (will have to modify a stock floor shifter to make it look quasi-factory). I can live without having the speedo hooked up ( I could install a tach and calculate it that way), but I was wondering, if I swap frames, will this transmission behind a inline 250 be enough to pull the truck? Not looking to go to the strip with it, but I was thinking of a 2 carb manifold and split headers If I do not swap frames, what goes into modifying the tranny support to accept a t-5? Who has actually done this before?

Shew, that was long! Thanks in advance; y'all seem to really know your vehicles.

Roll Tide Roll!

[markeb01]

A few points and tips for what they’re worth –

Before you consider buying an oilless compressor listen to one run. They are outrageously loud. When I lived in Idaho my garage had a dirt floor with fence board walls, and it was so loud I had to wear hearing protection. When I moved into town with a concrete floor and real walls, I bought a conventional upright and the oilless sat in the back yard for 7 years before I found someone that wanted it for free.

I’m not sure from your post if you already have a 60-66 truck (63?) or are thinking about buying one. With almost any project vehicle, nothing will kill interest faster than walking around a cluttered pile of disassembled parts. It’s always easier to keep enthusiasm going when the vehicle remains drivable. Many ambitious upgrades can be completed in a day or a weekend, including a complete front suspension swap. This also allows each system to be checked as it’s upgraded, rather than trying to debug “everything” during final assembly. As a first time project I would recommend against a body swap. It can be done with excellent results, but even for an experienced fabricator this can be a difficult challenge. And this is not a good place to learn welding. Chassis welds need to be extreme quality like that of a certified welder. There are just so many small details that an inexperienced hobbyist can run into, big enough to derail the project.

Buying an entire project truck is often the cheapest approach, if you have a place to keep and disassemble it. There are always a bunch of bits and pieces that come in handy. And with the donor sitting nearby you can photograph and double check where things went.

There are many aftermarket electric speedometers that should be compatible with the T5 transmission. I have an electric speedo in my 1960 connected to a Super T10 4 speed. It just requires the correct speed generator adapted to the output drive.

If you have a 63-66, the biggest change to installing the T5 might be moving the transmission crossmember a few inches to line up with the new mount pad. It’s more difficult on the 60-62 since they have an X/convertible style frame.

[padresag]

on that application there is no transmission crossmember. only a/t used a rear trans mount. manual trans are suspended from the bellhousing which is mounted to the crossmember which runs underneath it.
ron

[63whoopie]

markeb01-
First off, let me say I have seen the recent pictures of your truck after paint, and it is one sharp vehicle. Also, if that engine runs half as good as it looks, you are having a lot of fun, I bet. Kudos.

I am sorry for not making myself clear; I posted about my truck in the welcome area, and forgot to do it again on that long post above. I have a 1963 c10 shortbed stepside with a later 250 I6 and the 3-on-the-tree non- O.D. (Saganaw?) My mother bought it for me when I turned 15 with the intentions I would work on it and restore it, but time and family situation has not allowed. I now do really want to get going on it, and have a little more skill than I did then (I pulled the transmission out last month thinking I was going to put a new clutch in it and try to sell it, but have been bitten by "the bug" and want to keep her and make her mine).
I have asked a few additional sources and come to the conclusion that I will definitely not be doing a body to new frame swap any time soon; too much work and fabrication + no skill= really bad idea.
As far as the T5 goes, all of the electronic to mechanical converters I found were in the neighborhood of $300+. I was hoping to keep my stock speedo, and I can live with not having it hooked up (it hasn't been as long as I have had it, so it's nothing new).
So, there's a 1977 c10 LWB frame on craigslist for $50 about an hour from my house.... front crossmember, discs, steering, etc sounds appealing and cheep, my two priorities. I might call in the morning.

padresag-
I may be using the wrong term, but when I pulled the transmission, there was a support which ran under the transmission and supported it, as well as the rubber transmission mount block thing; without the transmission in place, the engine has no rear support, so I have a ratchet strap holding it up It was held to the bottom of the frame by 4 bolts, and had 1 or 2 bolts that ran up into the tranny, I think?

[63 & 64 Bowties]

I have a T5 that I'm gonna put in my 64 "one of these days." IMHO, it's a great choice. I prefer sticks over autos, and I'm not really a burn-out kinda guy, so I'm not too concerned about the trans taking major torque. But the OD is the big seller for me.
But, it's not exactly a "plug-and-play" install. If you haven't seen this yet, I'm sure you'll find it interesting:
http://www.67-72chevytrucks.com/vboa...d.php?t=313954
And, welcome aboard. Always nice to have another 60-66 guy here.

[padresag]

Originally Posted by 63whoopie

markeb01-
padresag-
I may be using the wrong term, but when I pulled the transmission, there was a support which ran under the transmission and supported it, as well as the rubber transmission mount block thing; without the transmission in place, the engine has no rear support, so I have a ratchet strap holding it up It was held to the bottom of the frame by 4 bolts, and had 1 or 2 bolts that ran up into the tranny, I think?

in the 45 years that this vehicle has been around it could have previously had some alterations
if there is a crossmember that goes under the tailhousing of the transmission, then it is not stock unless it came with an a/t. In that model with a std trans the crossmember went under the bellhousing/ flywheel area. Sometimes people are confused on how to take the trans out as the two bottom bolts have to be removed from inside the bellhousing so therefore they also remove the bellhousing with the tranny still attached. this would be a similiar removal as the old cast p/glide installed in 62 and prior applications.
that crossmember is riveted to the frame unless someone went to the trouble to remove the rivets and install bolts which is doubtful
ron

[Captainfab]

Keep the body on the '63 frame and just upgrade with the parts from something like that '77 you found for $50. Mounting the '63 body onto a '73-'87 frame will require lots of fabrication and will result in a 4 wheel drive looking truck. BTDT The '88 and up frames are even more different than the '63 frame. I haven't attempted a swap like that, but just looking at it, I don't think it would be very easy, and might not turn out favorably.

[63whoopie]

Update-

Called about the '77 frame advertised; he is selling the crossmember/ front end ( A-arms, tie rods, spindles, discs, etc $125) and rear end (12 bolt 3.08 ? non-posi) separately. How does that sound for a front end in "good average" condition? The 12-bolt isn't posi, so I don't care about it, and those gears wouldn't be helpful with a t-5, i believe I have read.

[19GMC63]

Are you planning on converting to power brakes/steering?

As far as the T5 goes, if you use bell housing mounts you don't necessarily have to use a rear mount. There are a lot of guys out there free hangin' their T5s in different applications without any issues, me included.

[Captainfab]

That's not too bad for the complete front suspension. Do you have to remove it or will he? It is nice to have all the original bolts, nuts and small parts that get removed. You might see if he'll throw in the steering box. That 3.08 rear end might not be too tall for you. It depends on what diameter rear tires you are going to run. You also have a ? behind it, does that mean it isn't confirmed that that is the ratio?

[63whoopie]

19GMC63-
I will have to make a decision about the t5 after I see it installed but I think I would feel better with something under it...

Capitanfab-
From what he said, I gathered he had already separated the crossmember from the frame, and had taken the PS box off. He had it listed separately for $25, but I definitely think I would try to get him to throw it in. The truck already has a dual master cylinder and power drum brakes, so I don't have to fool with any of that..... do I? And I am unsure as of yet of what all the ratios finally add up to and what exactly they mean, but I read that a 3.73 or 4.11(?)'s work better with the t5. However, I have driven a few s10's in my time and all thought 1st gear wasn't low enough for anything other than absolutely flat ground and 1 passenger and no load. I wouldn't mind having a lower 1st gear, because I will not be cruzing anymore than 55-maybe 60ish.

[Captainfab]

You will need to change your master cylinder to a disc/drum master and add the appropriate proportioning valve. I would get the master and prop valve from that '77 truck.