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#1 |
Suburban Hick
![]() Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Altoona, IA
Posts: 810
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New engine, won't run!
I finally got around to installing the big block in my 78, but can't get the darn thing to run. It is a completely rebuilt 427 tall deck motor. I have checked the distributor 5 times to make sure it is on top dead center of the compression stroke. Put in different plugs, new fuel pump, different plug wires, different cap and coil which i know is good. Adjusted the distributor every which way, Tried setting a tooth off in either direction. Cam was installed properly. Double checked valve clearances. I am out of ideas. It turns over fine and it will pop and sputter, no backfiring, but it will not run. I am out of ideas.
It's getting spark compression, and gas, and i am darn sure its in time. I have had a darn good mecahinc of 30+ years helping me and he can't figure it out either. Any advice would be appreciated.
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Mathew 1947 Chevy 3600 1951 GMC 100 1969 Chevy C-10 396/500hp TH400 lowered 4" 1968 Imapla Custom 396/325hp TH400 "Grandmas Car" 1976 Crew Cab 4x4 diesel http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=488505 1978 Chevy K-10 454 1983 S10 4x4 "Bumblb" (Grandpa's truck) 1993 Chevy S10 V8 conversion 1990 Ford Probe Gt 1992 Dodge W-150 "Old Man's Truck" 1992 Pontiac Grand Prix SE 1992 Mercury Grand Marquis-Mercruiser 2000 Ford F150 (Currently my mother drives this) 1946 Farmall H with Stan Hoist loader 1965 John Deere 110 1961 Wheel Horse " Rat Tractor" |
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#2 |
Robert Olson Transport
![]() Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: recent transplant to NC USA
Posts: 20,287
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Re: New engine, won't run!
doouble check the distributor yet again... in fact pull it out and reset it.. I did this with my motor on the V6 i had and i had it out so it wasnt firing right..the stupid diagram in the Haynes manual was off so i had it firing on the wrong cylinder i know it sounds stupid but this is an error i made.... i had gone as far as to even think the fuel wasnt right and was going to put in a new fuel pump
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Bob 1951 International running on a squarebody chassis "If a man's worth is judged by the people he associates himself with, then i am the richest man in the world knowing some of the fine people of this board" http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/a...t.php?f=25&a=9 (you can review the site rules here!) PM Me for your vehicle/parts hauling needs in the North East US or see my Facebook page Robert Olson Transport Live each day to the fullest.. you never know when fate is going to pull the rug out from under you... I hate cancer!! |
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#3 |
The One And Only !!!
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Hole in the woods Florida
Posts: 4,567
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Re: New engine, won't run!
Since you state you installed a different cap AND coil, Is it safe to assume this distributor is of the older style HEI ?
If so, There could be a problem with module or even the condenser. These older style pick-up's are known for breaking the lead wires up close to the pick-up housing from the vacuum advance moving the plate back and forth, The insulation may look good but the inner wire will be broken. I mention the distributor components because it looks like you have most everything else covered, It's possible you have spark at cranking speed but loose it when it trys to start up (spins faster). Just my ![]() Good Luck
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93 Jeep XJ 88 Buick La Sabra Toys; 88 TA-GTA in the works.... 97 GMC Ext. Cab 502 Crate 5 Spd......Sucks Gas But Haulz Azz ! ![]() The primary function of an Engineer is to make it difficult for the Fabricator and impossible for the Mechanic. "Why go out preserved when you can go out beat up, worn out, sliding in sideways screaming, Holy Sh!t What A Ride" !!!
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#4 |
Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 466
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Re: New engine, won't run!
If it is a tall deck block do you have a tall deck distributor? I dont even know if there is such a thing.
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2010 Tahoe 1984 C10 2005 Harley FLH 1941 Willys Pickup (will never get it done) not for sale |
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#5 |
Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Summerset SD
Posts: 312
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Re: New engine, won't run!
Pick up coil? Are you it has spark?
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#6 |
Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Helena, Alabama
Posts: 453
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Re: New engine, won't run!
what about gas. are you using high octane. My friends big block would not fire on anything lower than 105 octane. Just another thought
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#7 |
Suburban Hick
![]() Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Altoona, IA
Posts: 810
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Re: New engine, won't run!
The distributor itself is only about two years old, and the whole distributor setup that is on it now is the same one from the small block i pulled out of the truck and it ran fine. it is possible something could have happened when changing things over though. I know it has spark as we have checked it to make sure. The distributor has been pulled out and reset just about every time. Gas could be a problem as its just 87 octane, but have never had that problem before.
I won't be able to work on it again until sunday, but will check the distributor just in case for anything broke internally and maybe for kicks and giggles i will just drop the distributor in some random place and see if it will start.
__________________
Mathew 1947 Chevy 3600 1951 GMC 100 1969 Chevy C-10 396/500hp TH400 lowered 4" 1968 Imapla Custom 396/325hp TH400 "Grandmas Car" 1976 Crew Cab 4x4 diesel http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=488505 1978 Chevy K-10 454 1983 S10 4x4 "Bumblb" (Grandpa's truck) 1993 Chevy S10 V8 conversion 1990 Ford Probe Gt 1992 Dodge W-150 "Old Man's Truck" 1992 Pontiac Grand Prix SE 1992 Mercury Grand Marquis-Mercruiser 2000 Ford F150 (Currently my mother drives this) 1946 Farmall H with Stan Hoist loader 1965 John Deere 110 1961 Wheel Horse " Rat Tractor" |
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#8 |
Addicted to Rust
![]() Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Abbeville SC
Posts: 1,030
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Re: New engine, won't run!
Tall deck blocks require a tall deck distributor or machine work on the intake to allow the short deck dizzy to engage. All small blocks are short deck. Not all 427s are tall deck. Hope this helps Jay
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Current trucks: (48 GMC100 320 inliner) Gone (48 Suburban in pieces) Sold 87 GMC CCSB 5.3 4l60E Daily Driver ECTA National record holder XO/PP We never really grow up, we just learn how to act in public. |
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#9 |
Suburban Hick
![]() Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Altoona, IA
Posts: 810
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Re: New engine, won't run!
I used the stock tall deck intake which allows for the use of a regular distributor. I mean it drops in all the way, connects to the cam fine, and engages the oil pump.
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Mathew 1947 Chevy 3600 1951 GMC 100 1969 Chevy C-10 396/500hp TH400 lowered 4" 1968 Imapla Custom 396/325hp TH400 "Grandmas Car" 1976 Crew Cab 4x4 diesel http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=488505 1978 Chevy K-10 454 1983 S10 4x4 "Bumblb" (Grandpa's truck) 1993 Chevy S10 V8 conversion 1990 Ford Probe Gt 1992 Dodge W-150 "Old Man's Truck" 1992 Pontiac Grand Prix SE 1992 Mercury Grand Marquis-Mercruiser 2000 Ford F150 (Currently my mother drives this) 1946 Farmall H with Stan Hoist loader 1965 John Deere 110 1961 Wheel Horse " Rat Tractor" |
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#10 |
Registered User
![]() Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Olive Branch,Mississippi
Posts: 347
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Re: New engine, won't run!
Is it a new engine or reworked engine some times the timing chain,gear could be aligned wrong ,just a thought but will cause the same problems.
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Built chevy tuff! ![]() Last edited by Rodms; 01-19-2010 at 12:07 AM. |
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#11 | |
Addicted to Rust
![]() Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Abbeville SC
Posts: 1,030
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Re: New engine, won't run!
Quote:
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__________________
Current trucks: (48 GMC100 320 inliner) Gone (48 Suburban in pieces) Sold 87 GMC CCSB 5.3 4l60E Daily Driver ECTA National record holder XO/PP We never really grow up, we just learn how to act in public. |
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#12 |
Registered User
![]() Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Las Cruces, NM
Posts: 284
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Re: New engine, won't run!
I would put a compression gauge in a few holes and check em, hth.
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#13 |
Still plays with trucks
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Spokane, WA
Posts: 3,556
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Re: New engine, won't run!
Squirt a little oil into each cylinder and crank it over with the ignition disconnected to spread it around then reconnect the ignition. Sometimes new engines don't like to fire on dry cylinder walls. The rings aren't seated yet and leak down too much on the dry fit to build enough compression to fire the mixture.
The 400 in my Malibu was that way. I didn't believe it was the problem and pulled most of my hair out trying to get it to run until my 82 year old neighbor suggested the oil in the cylinder trick. It fired right up.
__________________
miSSed opportunity - ground up creation of an AWD 1994 454 SS that never was http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=795577 69 C10 shortbed stepside 400 small block - built like what a super sport truck could have been 69 K20 lwb TBI 350 4L60E NP208 14-bolt Dana-44 w/disc 68 Camaro SS / RS 500hp 439 inch roller cam big block 4L80E 79 Malibu TPI 350 4L60 w/ Z28 steering & sway bars |
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#14 |
Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Farmington, MN
Posts: 928
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Re: New engine, won't run!
Water in the fuel? Had that once, finally pulled the fuel line off the carb and what spilled out beaded up on the intake. I was pulling my hair out too.
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I can still count my vehicles on two... wait three hands. |
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#15 |
Suburban Hick
![]() Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Altoona, IA
Posts: 810
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Re: New engine, won't run!
Thought about the timing gears being off. Going to pull the valve cover off and watch the valves when the piston is coming up to check that and see where the distributor is. I don't think there is water in the gas as i stopped and put gas in the truck right before i changed the motors and its only been sitting 3 weeks. I might try the oil in the cylinder trick. We did put a bunch of superlube down the cylinders before we put the motor in the truck and turned it over by hand to make sure it still turned since its been sitting a while.
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Mathew 1947 Chevy 3600 1951 GMC 100 1969 Chevy C-10 396/500hp TH400 lowered 4" 1968 Imapla Custom 396/325hp TH400 "Grandmas Car" 1976 Crew Cab 4x4 diesel http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=488505 1978 Chevy K-10 454 1983 S10 4x4 "Bumblb" (Grandpa's truck) 1993 Chevy S10 V8 conversion 1990 Ford Probe Gt 1992 Dodge W-150 "Old Man's Truck" 1992 Pontiac Grand Prix SE 1992 Mercury Grand Marquis-Mercruiser 2000 Ford F150 (Currently my mother drives this) 1946 Farmall H with Stan Hoist loader 1965 John Deere 110 1961 Wheel Horse " Rat Tractor" |
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#16 | |
Still plays with trucks
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Spokane, WA
Posts: 3,556
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Re: New engine, won't run!
Quote:
It's possible the timing set got put in with the dots incorrectly oriented. Some engines set the dots both facing up and some point the dots together in the middle. Maybe the mechanic who put it together used the wrong method. Only way to tell it to pull the timing cover off. Chevy V-8's put the dots together in the middle.
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miSSed opportunity - ground up creation of an AWD 1994 454 SS that never was http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=795577 69 C10 shortbed stepside 400 small block - built like what a super sport truck could have been 69 K20 lwb TBI 350 4L60E NP208 14-bolt Dana-44 w/disc 68 Camaro SS / RS 500hp 439 inch roller cam big block 4L80E 79 Malibu TPI 350 4L60 w/ Z28 steering & sway bars |
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#17 | ||
just can't cover up my redneck
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Columbus OH
Posts: 11,414
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Re: New engine, won't run!
Quote:
The crank gear is exactly half the size of the cam gear, so the "dots" will not always meet in the middle when the crank's "dot" is up. If you start out with the "dots" in the middle and turn the crank exactly one revolution....the cam's "dot" will not be at the bottom anymore, it will be at the top. This BTW is TDC of the compression stroke for the #1 cylinder
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#18 |
Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Farmington, MN
Posts: 928
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Re: New engine, won't run!
The timing marks on a chevy small block V8 neet to be together when installing a timing set. It has been a few years since I have replaced a timing set and was a little unsure after reading the last two posts, so according to my 1974 Chevrolet Light Duty Truck Servive Manunal Section 6 page 58 "Hold the sprocket vertically with the chain hanging down and align marks on camshaft and crankshaft sprockets."
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I can still count my vehicles on two... wait three hands. Last edited by Damien; 01-23-2010 at 10:44 PM. Reason: Removed some comments |
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#19 | |
Still plays with trucks
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Spokane, WA
Posts: 3,556
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Re: New engine, won't run!
Quote:
Forgive my slow thinking. I've been working 20 hour days for the past week so my brain is a little slow right now. I can sleep in February when this project is done.
__________________
miSSed opportunity - ground up creation of an AWD 1994 454 SS that never was http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=795577 69 C10 shortbed stepside 400 small block - built like what a super sport truck could have been 69 K20 lwb TBI 350 4L60E NP208 14-bolt Dana-44 w/disc 68 Camaro SS / RS 500hp 439 inch roller cam big block 4L80E 79 Malibu TPI 350 4L60 w/ Z28 steering & sway bars |
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#20 |
Registered User
![]() Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Ottawa Ontario Canada
Posts: 1,156
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Re: New engine, won't run!
Distributor is 180 degrees out.
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#21 |
Still plays with trucks
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Spokane, WA
Posts: 3,556
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Re: New engine, won't run!
Duh. Why didn't I think of that. It is the easiest thing to do wrong.
__________________
miSSed opportunity - ground up creation of an AWD 1994 454 SS that never was http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=795577 69 C10 shortbed stepside 400 small block - built like what a super sport truck could have been 69 K20 lwb TBI 350 4L60E NP208 14-bolt Dana-44 w/disc 68 Camaro SS / RS 500hp 439 inch roller cam big block 4L80E 79 Malibu TPI 350 4L60 w/ Z28 steering & sway bars |
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#22 |
Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Farmington, MN
Posts: 928
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Re: New engine, won't run!
That is what I was thinking after you said the location of the timing marks didn't matter. If the cam sprocket was installed with the the dot at the 12 o'clock position the distributor would be off 180* making the number one terminal on the back dist cap. Talk about confusing.
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I can still count my vehicles on two... wait three hands. |
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#23 |
The One And Only !!!
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Hole in the woods Florida
Posts: 4,567
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Re: New engine, won't run!
Well, Let's add to it. The distrubutor can be installed in any position you want, As long as you put #1 plug wire in the proper position on the cap (where the rotor points) while #1 piston is at TDC compression stroke.
__________________
93 Jeep XJ 88 Buick La Sabra Toys; 88 TA-GTA in the works.... 97 GMC Ext. Cab 502 Crate 5 Spd......Sucks Gas But Haulz Azz ! ![]() The primary function of an Engineer is to make it difficult for the Fabricator and impossible for the Mechanic. "Why go out preserved when you can go out beat up, worn out, sliding in sideways screaming, Holy Sh!t What A Ride" !!!
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#24 |
Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 3,930
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Re: New engine, won't run!
How are you checking TDC ? The way I do it have one person put place their finger firmly over the #1 spark plug hole so it seals, then have someone spin the engine over by hand. When you feel pressure build up against your finger, watch the timing mark and stop when it gets to TDC. The finger is necessary because the timing mark on the balancer will show #1 OR #6 at TDC firing, because it takes two full revolutions of the crank to fire all 8 cylinders. The pressure against your finger means there's compression building in the #1 cylinder and when the timing mark gets to TDC, the motor is on #1 TDC firing for sure.
After that, check the rotor position and see if it's point to terminal on the cap that your #1 plug wire is connected to. I assume you have the wires connected in the firing order clockwise around the cap ? Tighten the distributor down to where it's snug, but still can be moved by hand. Have one person crank the engine over, and one person slowly moving the distributor a small amount in either direction till it fires. Don't know if you've already done all this but that's all I've got.
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1977 GMC Sierra Grande |
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#25 |
Suburban Hick
![]() Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Altoona, IA
Posts: 810
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Re: New engine, won't run!
Everything you all have said about the distributor i have tried. I cput the distributor right on and 180 off, moved it a tooth either way from those positions and nothing. I check tdc just like you all have posted. But now on to something new.....
I've been thinking about the dry cylinder deal with puting oil in the cylinders. I had forgot that when i was checking the starter out i sprayed a ton of wd 40 down the spark plug holes. I would almost bet since wd 40 does evaporate quickly especially with the plugs in the motor, that when gas hits the plugs its more or less flooding the engine. So i am thinking that if i pour some regular motor oil down the holes and crank that thing over alot and clean the cylinders out, that it may run. What do you guys think?
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Mathew 1947 Chevy 3600 1951 GMC 100 1969 Chevy C-10 396/500hp TH400 lowered 4" 1968 Imapla Custom 396/325hp TH400 "Grandmas Car" 1976 Crew Cab 4x4 diesel http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=488505 1978 Chevy K-10 454 1983 S10 4x4 "Bumblb" (Grandpa's truck) 1993 Chevy S10 V8 conversion 1990 Ford Probe Gt 1992 Dodge W-150 "Old Man's Truck" 1992 Pontiac Grand Prix SE 1992 Mercury Grand Marquis-Mercruiser 2000 Ford F150 (Currently my mother drives this) 1946 Farmall H with Stan Hoist loader 1965 John Deere 110 1961 Wheel Horse " Rat Tractor" |
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