csb 350 head swap?

[kmjohansen]

Im in the middle of rebuilding a 1976 chevy K10 flatbed. It has a sb 350 and i have most of the internals done, but i got a great deal on a edelbrock set up with twin 4bbl at 500cfm each. now that i have that intake set up i know i will need some new heads, but since i have never swapped heads from different engines i dont know what heads i should get. i saw some LS1s for a late model csb 350, would those work? and would that be enough?......if not what heads should i get and what would be the best set up for the price?

[3r!c84]

ls1 or lt1 heads will not fit, i would find some vortecs

[kmjohansen]

i had a friend recommend camel humps what about those?

[3r!c84]

thos will work and so will bowtie heads. but imo vortecs are the best.but you have to use vortec only intake

[bitchin85]

Originally Posted by 3r!c84

ls1 or lt1 heads will not fit, i would find some vortecs

yer right but he said he already has the intake. a vortec dual quad intake would cost a fortune. and yes you can have vortecs drilled to accept an older style intake but it probly wont fit right and vortecs ports are taller. i say get yourself a set of camel humps or bowtie heads are good too but more expensive.

[joebuick]

Hey kmjohanson,, Dual quads are neat looking and will make the troops show a little respect for the abilities of your truck,,,,, but,,,,, you are going to pay for that at the gas pump, especially if you are like most of us that like to goose em every now and them. And prolly more now than then Ha! A word of caution on the camel hump heads. There are camel humps that make decent HP and there are camel humps that make great HP. I do not have my list here in front of me but you can go to Mortec.com and look at what they have listed and you will see which ones you want to look for. a whole lot of the camel humps used the small (1.86) intake valves and did not have too great a chamber design. Intake runner size was also not the best. Since you are looking to use the dual quad setup, I figure you are serious about making some serious HP, in which case I would look for some good flowing heads with the 2.02 valves and 64 Cc chambers such as "290", 414,040, 186, 291, 461, 461X or better yet some bowtie heads. These cast iron heads are in GREAT demand by the circle track guys and will be hard to locate in good condition and good PRICE as lots of them have been ruined by people hogging them out and not knowing what they were doing and actually hurt the flow numbers. Your best bet may be a good set of aluminum heads that already have the good chamber and intake runner design. The secret to making serious HP in a SBC is with a good set of cylinder heads. Don't forget, with that much fuel going into your engine, you will also need a cam with some good numbers to take care of opening those valves for maximum HP. What kind of pistons did you use in your rebuild? Good luck Joe r

[kmjohansen]

i saw some dart heads with 2.02,1.60 valves with a 75cc chamber and 200cc runners with a .600 max lift, what you think about those. and i was thinkin of either a edelbrock or compcam both which have 234/238durations and a .534/238 lift with lobe separations of 110. and the pistons are speedpro hypereutectic flat 4.000in bore.

[joebuick]

Hey Guy,,, Those are some good numbers for those heads. What is price? Good valve sizes. Do they have the newer heart shape chamber design? The 74 Cc is the combustion chamber size and with your flattop pistons, will get you in the 9.0 range on compression ratio. This will allow you to use regular pump gas,,,,, but is going to keep the HP numbers down somehat. You can contact the Mfgr of the pistons and they will tell you what the CR will be with the chamber design Vs your pistons design. ( Higher compression ratio = Higher HP) (Higher Cr also means you will HAVE to run premium gas or your engine will have detonation which can destroy it,,!!) I think if you wind up with 10.0 -1 you should be OK if you keep the RPMs up and don't lug it around. The .600 number is telling you the springs will work with .600 total lift cams. Keep in mind the lift numbers most Mfgrs use are .050 off the lobe so you can add that back and see what your total lift will be. Your rocker arm ratio ( 1.5 or 1.6 for SBC) will also be a factor in the total lift numbers. Try to score some roller rockers or at least some roller tip rockers to help your valve train at higher RPMs. OOps forgot to ask, is this a solid or hydraulic lifter cam?
Stay after it and you are gonna have a wicked, nasty chevy to wow the troops.

[kmjohansen]

does the combustion chamber size dictate the CR? if it does would the same heads with a combustion chamber of 64 have a higher CR? I havent bought a cam b/c i havent decided on the heads, but the two im looking at one is a hydro lifter and the other is a solid lifter, im thinking of going for the hydro lifter just b/c of the less maintanence, even tho i know that the solid lifter is better with high revs, but im not planning on racing down the strip regularly, i just like to romp it around town/post.

[kmjohansen]

oh yeah and the heads were $650 for both rebuilt heads. or new at $600/head

[jrcaprai]

I just bought a set of Profiler 210cc Heads for my 408.. they also make a 195cc ver better for a 355. Most of the heads you guys are talking about flow in the 200-225 Range... good for 400-450 HP at the most... the profilers I bought flow over 300 cfm... the 195's flow in the 280 Range, which is good for about 550-575 HP... there have been many tests done between Dual plane and Dual Quad Intakes... the Dual Quads look cool, but don't make as much power as good Dual plane (Air-Gap) with a 750 Carb. Unless you do a Full on Tunnel Ram. The heads I bought were fully gone through and Setup By Chad Speiers http://www.speierracingheads.com/profiler.htm.
If you want some serious HP at a reasonable Price, these are the way to go. they cost $250.00 less than AFR's But flow as much out of the Box. With some port work 700HP is possible with a 406 sbc.

[jrcaprai]

Originally Posted by joebuick

Keep in mind the lift numbers most Mfgrs use are .050 off the lobe so you can add that back and see what your total lift will be.

Sorry But this is incorrect! Duration @50 is what is Measured here. such as
232/236 @.50. Advertised duration is measured at.06. like 280/286 Dur
Total lift is measured from the size of the Lobe, X the Rocker Ratio
Example : .350 Lobe lift x 1.5 = .525 total lift.
1.6 Ratio rockers will give you .30 more lift....

[bama63]

check these out https://www.patriot-performance.com/...ome.php?cat=40 they also offer many other versions from bare to cnc race ported

[jrcaprai]

Originally Posted by bama63

check these out https://www.patriot-performance.com/...ome.php?cat=40 they also offer many other versions from bare to cnc race ported

They are Cast in CHINA!!!!! and assembled in the US....

The Profilers are 100% Made in the USA

[joebuick]

Hey Jrcapral,, I stand corrected,,, I meant to say duration but said lift, huh? thanks for clearing that up as I do not want to offer bad suggestions to anybody.
I think you have "dual plane" mixed up. An intake manifold is either of a "dual plane "design or a "single plane" design. Dual plane indicates the intake runners from the carb on one side of the engine are at close to same elevation before they dump into the cylinder head port. The other 4 runners are cast UNDER the first ones. A single plane manifold has ALL the runners from the carb to the cylinder head ports at same elevation and pretty much symetrical. Tunnel Rams are single plane. Some air gap manifolds are single plane but most are cast as dual plane.
Those are some wicked looking heads!! I love the heart shape chambers= high HP. 300 CFM out of the box,,,, WOW I'm gonna have to look into these to maybe replace my old Brownfield 210's

[jrcaprai]

I am actually very Familiar with the Differences Between Dual plane, Single plane and Tunnel Rams, and Dual Quads...
There is a test a while back in Hot Rod (I think thats the correct mag, I have it somewhere) where they tested a whole Batch of Dual planes, and the same amount of Single Planes, one Dual Quad, and a tunnel Ram also... the Tunnel Ram made the Most Top End power, followed by the Single planes... The Edelbrock RPM Air-gap outdid the Vic Jr, and the Super Vic to about 6500 RPM, then the single planes took over up to like 6900 RPM, where the engine topped out.. they Tested one Dual Quad intake, (which is what the OP said he had) which fell behind the Dual plane intakes in power output.

I lied... I just found the Magazine...(Chevy Hi Perf, Sept 08) they Didn't test a Tunnel Ram or a Dual Quad Intake... the Odd one they Tested was an Old 64 Corvette Manifold...

Brownfields... Yep didn't AFR buy them, or did they rename Brownfield to AFR ???
Still Great Heads anyhoo!

[joebuick]

Yeah, you can't beat a tunnel ram with dual quads for top end HP as far as carburation is concerned. I have read some pretty impressive articles on the latest fuel injection setups but that is a horse of a different color.
Was the corvette manifold they tested a single four or an early style dual quad? 56 and 57's had dual quads, dual plane and also the early camaros with the "cross ram" which was also a dual plane, dual quad design. Same for the early big block Fords, Hemis and even the Pontiacs and Cadillacs. I do not remember seeing a dual quad, single plane manifold until the professional engine builders started making their own "sheetmetal" manifolds which resembled the tunnell rams but with shorter runners. The Victor Jr may have been the first single plane I saw. Wait,,,I think maybe the "Ramchargers" of Dodge fame made their own tunnell ram back in the mid 50's,,,, not for sure as my memory improves as I get younger,,,!!!
I didn't know that AFR took over Brownfield but is good to know as I have been considering to contact AFR to see if I can send them my heads for some updating. Mine do not have the good heart shaped chamber which is the ultimate at this point in time. Mine are aluminum with the 58 Cc chambers and 2.08/1.60 valves with 1.550 dual springs. They have all the good stuff but i would still like to have that good chamber design.

[jrcaprai]

Nope not a cross Ram, it is a 365hp 327 Corvette Aluminum Dual plane... those Cross Rams are worth some coin now!!!! I had an old Edelbrock Torker Manifold (my first Single plane) that I swapped a friend for the Dual plane I had at the time, in a Chevy Luv, about 1980... What a mistake, the engine was a really stock 350, and that Torker just killed all the bottom end.