Header or Not To Header That Is The Question

[stich626]

Originally Posted by lakeroadster

A 200 hp slug... well that's a classy statement...

Lets see that high horsepower beast of yours, with the high dollar copper gaskets and the "stage 8" locking bolts.

at the moment it is a 200hp slug

but I have a 355 550hp or the to be built 496 with dart pro1 heads/etc etc/
that I'll be adding those pic as I go to my build

p.s. you can go to photobucket to see all the goodies
bowtie6872

[BIGKEV]

I run headers with NO ISSUES. I have headmans with 1 5/8" primary 3" collectors. I run the cheap paper gaskets were the flange meets the head, the trick is to soak the gaskets in water for 30-45 minutes before you install them. You then torque them, run them till the engine is warm, let it cool enough to re-torque. I use safety wire instead of stage 8's cause I'm cheap. and I like the copper collector gaskets, and I use a stover nut as a jamb nut. Another trick if you don't want to fork out for stainless or ceramic is to remove all of the factory rust prevention paint and coat them with Anti-seize. This offers little or no heat saturation reduction, but leaves a nice finish and protects the header from rust/corrosion.

[Hubscrub]

I'm not a "i got to have tons of power" kind of guy but i only run manifolds on anything because of no worry with them heck most of the time you don't even need gaskets where they bolt to the heads.

[GASoline71]

The best thing made on the collectors is to find the headers with the "ball and socket" type flanges. No gaskets, and no leaky!

Gary

[BIGKEV]

Originally Posted by GASoline71

The best thing made on the collectors is to find the headers with the "ball and socket" type flanges. No gaskets, and no leaky!

Gary

Ball and socket collectors create SO much turbulence that they kill all of the scavenging effect of the header, might as well still be running manifolds. Most shorty headers are also lumped into the same class of problems.

[treveiger]

How much does a good set of headers run? Or the ram horn manifolds?

[BIGKEV]

Originally Posted by treveiger

How much does a good set of headers run? Or the ram horn manifolds?

That all depends on several factors. I'm the type to wait a little extra time to get what I want for what I want to pay for it. It took me 8 months to find all the parts for my engine, but I spent $600 vs $1200-$1500 if I wouldn't have waited for the "right" deals to come along. Also, what are your goals for your truck, what mods if any have you made?

[Bad70sbchevy]

I run Blackjack tuned headers on my daily driver. Its a built 355 making around 425hp and I've haven't had any heat soak issues what so ever and I'm not running any insulation. Personally, I don't have any issues with the spark plugs too, but I'm running shorter Accel Sparkplugs on it. The motor is a little cold blooded as a result of running headers and the nut will back off about every two months, but thats because of engine flex and the fact the exhaust system is fixed, probably going to buy header bolt locks some time to solve it, but I love them.

[mrein3]

Wow. You guys running headers must spend a lot of time around red line to be getting all these benefits from headers. That must cost a fortune with $3.79 gas.

I stand by my comments. Unless you are running really expensive, well engineered headers for your engine, and then you run around above 4000 rpms ALL THE TIME, you're wasting your time and money on headers.

I'd like to see dyno numbers from a ram's horn engine verses a headers pipe engine for the 0-3000 rpm range - WHERE MOST OF US LIVE.

I bolted my rams horns on my fresh 383 when I installed the engine that I built in December of 2004. I bought the truck in 1994. The only time I had to touch the exhaust in 17 years of ownership is when I put on the Hearthrob dual kit and when I swapped engines in 2004.

Save your time and money.

[stich626]

Originally Posted by mrein3

Wow. You guys running headers must spend a lot of time around red line to be getting all these benefits from headers. That must cost a fortune with $3.79 gas.

I stand by my comments. Unless you are running really expensive, well engineered headers for your engine, and then you run around above 4000 rpms ALL THE TIME, you're wasting your time and money on headers.

I'd like to see dyno numbers from a ram's horn engine verses a headers pipe engine for the 0-3000 rpm range - WHERE MOST OF US LIVE.

I bolted my rams horns on my fresh 383 when I installed the engine that I built in December of 2004. I bought the truck in 1994. The only time I had to touch the exhaust in 17 years of ownership is when I put on the Hearthrob dual kit and when I swapped engines in 2004.

Save your time and money.

well for use guys that drive the trucks that want the extra power starting at 1500rpm and all the way to red line we run good stepped headers..
even at the lower rpm range they allow for a complete cyl fill of burnable gas and air, unlike the ramhorns that force that exhaust port to fight with the other four as that cyl try's to empty..

yes for some headers can be a waste..
but when they are the corectly sized to the engine you get power through the whole range and better mpg because at cruise the engine doesn't have to work as hard , less pumping loss..
to each their own

[BIGKEV]

Originally Posted by mrein3

Wow. You guys running headers must spend a lot of time around red line to be getting all these benefits from headers. That must cost a fortune with $3.79 gas.

I stand by my comments. Unless you are running really expensive, well engineered headers for your engine, and then you run around above 4000 rpms ALL THE TIME, you're wasting your time and money on headers.

I'd like to see dyno numbers from a ram's horn engine verses a headers pipe engine for the 0-3000 rpm range - WHERE MOST OF US LIVE.

I bolted my rams horns on my fresh 383 when I installed the engine that I built in December of 2004. I bought the truck in 1994. The only time I had to touch the exhaust in 17 years of ownership is when I put on the Hearthrob dual kit and when I swapped engines in 2004.

Save your time and money.

I disagree with some of this.

First is your 4000 RPM figure, even at idle your engine can benefit from more exhaust flow. An engine is simply put, an air pump, the more air you can get in and out the more efficient it will be.

Second I'll agree with half of this, the headers do have to be well engineered, but they don't have to be expensive.

Third I have seen dyno results for both first hand, as well as flow bench testing side by side. Headers win in both instances so long as they are properly sized for the application.

Fourth if you take your time and use your head when installing headers they can be just as low maintenance as manifolds.

Bottom line is some motors benefit more from headers then others, I know mine does. Some engines wouldn't benefit enough to justify the price. As with anything you need to match ALL of your parts. I wouldn't put headers on a bone stock motor in most cases, but there are always exceptions.

[lakeroadster]

The thing that pretty much puts this argument to rest is new OEM vehicles.... Just about everything now has headers.

Why? Because from a performance standpoint they are superior to cast manifolds.

But lest we forget in "their day" the ram horn style was a huuuuge step forward.

What the General hath created let no man put asunder.

[gonzo6869]

I have hooker comp that the PO installed and I have no problems with them. Plugs r easy to get out and in. U get what you pay 4, like others said, so if u do decide to get header save it money and do it right.

[ItsRandy]

There is a book out there called "Cams, valves and exhaust systems", I think it is by Peterson publishing. It will tell you everything you should know about headers and why headers make horsepower and gas mileage. It tells you which designs will perform where in the RPM range and why. After reading the book you will understand that shorty headers are designed to fit well, not make horsepower and full length headers are designed to make horsepower and fit as well as they can. The proper combination of carb, intake manifold, cam, heads AND headers do the best job and make the most of any engine's potential. Even a mildly built engine can run it's best with the proper combination when tuned properly. You can't expect to get horsepower or gas mileage gains when you bolt on headers designed for high RPM horsepower gains and the rest of the engine is designed for low/midrange RPM torque.