looking for info on quality audio w/o braking bank

[chris mc bride]

Im looking for some input from auaio guys on quality sound system w/o having to rob a bank to pay for.
My plans are on high side and understand it will cost.Just looking to get quality sound with strong volume. Heres planed layout fill free to correct any of my ideas.
Head unit in custom console
cd changer same location
2 mid range in dash
6 1/2's in doors and console
6x9's midway body and rear over head
2 10" subs lower rear
front dash,doors and console one amp
mid body and rear one amp
subs another amp
Three amps are also part of a design feature so figure if buying them put enough speakers to make good use of them.
Oh yea this is in a panel truck.
questions can I power smaller speaker off radio speaker leads and amps off out puts I know 3 outputs will make little more price.
So experts chime in .And buy way not into bump bump or rap crap just good old rock n roll 60's stuff,zz top aerosmith, Moly Hatchet, souther rock and some hard rock. In case that matters on design.

[chris mc bride]

forgot Hoping to get out for around 1200 to 1400 bucks.If less hey Im happy camper.

[tubbedII]

Getting great quality with your plans on a $1,400 budget is going to be hard if you ask me, but I'm considering the console and materials/wiring into this budget. If you're just considering the budget as speaker/amp/head unit cost then you're more in the ball park.

I'd still simplify your plans though:

1. Great head unit. I prefer the Kenwood Excelon line or a good Alpine. (Plan on spending $200-$300 here.)
2. Go with a good set of components in the kick panel area and build the kicks yourself so you can position the speakers to point head level between the two front seats. I picked up the Polk Audio MM6501 for my ride. I haven't hooked them up, but I've heard the non-component versions and was very pleased with the sound. ($200)
3. Only put 1 pair of 6x9's in the rear body...Polk makes a 6x9 to match the MM6501's. Putting an extra set above as well as another mid in the dash would be unnecessary and just take up some of that tight budget. I feel it's better to get better quality speakers than more of lesser quality speakers. ($140)
4. Subs...I don't really have a recommendation, but I like the RE Audio subs. No matter what you choose, I would think you'd be in the $200-$300 range for a pair of 10" subs that are decent quality.
5. Amps. Here's where you can cut a cost and run a single 5 channel amp. I've never run one personally, but I plan to buy one for my blazer. I haven't decided on one yet, but they seem to range in the $400-$500 range. The key to amp purchases is to keep the RMS watts at or below the speaker rating. I'm leaning towards an Alpine, or even the Polk since it'll match the speakers.

I'm no pro or audiophile...but I do read a lot. I picked the speakers I linked for my own ride hoping for a happy medium of best quality without spending a ridiculous amount of $ for a each set of speakers. From all I've read and heard, 1 thing that's for sure is that everyone has their own opinion on which speakers are best for the $. Going off of what I listed, you're already at about $1,500 with just the equipment..so you can see it adds up fast.

You can go and get cheaper speakers, but I would still keep it to the basics of:
-Only components in the front kicks (no other speakers up front)
-1 pair of 6x9s in the rear body
-2 subs in the rear
-Either 1- 5 channel amp, or 2 amps 1 for the highs and 1 for the subs

[Chad215]

i always seem to end up posting right before or after tubbed
Since you're not looking to shake the fillings out of your teeth-

http://www.parts-express.com/pe/show...number=295-486

This is a 10" DVC sub for ~$30. The woman wanted something in her tahoe, but didn't want to go overboard and since she doesn't listen to really loud music, I bought her this. I figured if it didn't work out well, no big deal and I could get something bigger.
This thing sounds great! I have JL stuff in my DD, so I usually go high end. I was just getting tired of spending stupid money on gear so I've been experimenting with DIY speakers. I am in the planning stages still for the sytem I'm going to put in my '64 and just couldn't deal with spending another 1-2K on a stereo.
I have no hesitation about recommending this to anyone. I'm pushing around 150w to this with no issues at all. Loud and clear bass.

If you want to go spend money on high end name brand stuff, go ahead. That high end stuff will work great. But if you have an idea of what you want and know a little about speakers, you can get really good deals and sound just as good or better for way less money.

On that note- spend some money on your amp(s) and head unit. They will both make or break a system, regardless of speaker choice.

[chris mc bride]

thanks guys.I do understand the 3 amps are big cost.But as stated they are part of a design feature for interior of truck that is almost a must. I can delete a set or two of speakers.My idea was to make it surround deal with music hitting you at every angle.As for the custom console yes I will be making it.No choice to many trick pieces to buy any such thing.It will be fiberglass with cpl hidden compartment that are opened with electric motors.Only cost tome is fiberglass supplys maybe 50 bucks and its not part of estimated system cost. As for keck panels thats thought had n't considered. still would like door speakers,but that would be 6 minimum in drivers compartment.

Tubbed also Kenwood or Alpine guy.Might be a age grouo thing Im from 80's group yea 45 now but still rocking it hard when cruising. question wouldn't the extra speakers in front make for good sound at any volume just a thought.no expert by anymeans. Seems with sound coming from door,console and behind it would be like a surrouns sound system. The mid body and rear body are for rear set riders so volume will not be over powering but still be very clear.
Now amps dont have to be huge but 150 watts plus per channel would be target. I have one Alpine V-12 that I might could use. I would give detail of why 3 amps but everytime Im come up with cool idea someone shows up with it before I get to come out with it.

[tubbedII]

The console sounds like a cool setup! Make sure to take lots of pics during the process and post them up here!

I don't have any real experience with multiple speakers in multiple spots, but my S10's dash speakers gave me a headache trying to blend them in with the speakers in the doors. My goal with car stereo systems is to make them sound like every speaker is playing in unison so you can't tell where the sound is coming from. It makes for a much cleaner sound rather than a surround type like your house. The more speakers you put in that are farther apart from eachother, the harder it is... If it's even possible at all. The 2 areas I would personally never install speakers are the center console (unless it's a sub) and above your head. I think with an enclosed panel, 2 in front and 2 in back will be plenty loud and clean. If you are dead set on more speakers, I'd still build kicks for a set of components, but only put another set of 6.5's in the doors and leave out the dash and console. The 6x9s should be more than enough for the rear passengers as they should be able to hear a lot coming from the front.

I take it your going to showcase the amps somehow, but does that mean they all need to be the same? I would do 2 2 channel amps for the highs and 1 mono amp for the lows.

I'm 32,so I'm more of the 90's...but i like all music even though I'm more of a "rap crap" guy. I do like "classic rock" a lot though! Haha.
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[WAAF]

if it was mine.. I'd change the 6by9 to matching 6.5 that are up front..
and the ones that are not seperates, I'd make sure they are bi amp able
then the amps.. I'd get 2 4 channel amps and bi amp the speakers.. they will sound better and you can get lower watt 4 channels cheap.. 75x4 is most times cheaper than a 150x2 and harder to drive into clipping wired bi amped and a matching 2 channel bridgable or mono block for the subs..

[jimmydean]

my setup is costing me about $800 total for everything audio related.

2 shallow mount 10" subs (still undecided)
2 6.5 coax for rear fill (Infinity Kappa, $80 ebay)
2 6.5 separates for the kicks/doors (Polk Audio MM $120 ebay)
2 4" coax for the center (Kicker $40 local)
dual batteries
140 amp alternator
1 4-channel 1000 watt (mids/highs)
1 2-channel 1200 watt (subs)

I'm not running a head unit. If you shop around, you can get some great deals. I had a list of stuff I wanted and the prices I was willing to pay. I could have run all the same brand of stuff, but for me it's about the best quality sound for the best price.

[chris mc bride]

ok explain the bi amp deal. as for amp sizes do not have to be same as mater of fact one bigger one and two smaller ones will work best for display I have in mind if you get idea of what Im doing on display plz don't post for once Id like to come out with a idea first,Use to be on going joke that someone had bugged our shop,everytime we mentioned idea it showed up within cpl months either at track or in a mag. of some type.If think yo know what I plan PM it to me I'll answer honestly. Heck you may have seen it somewhere already had idea for cpl years now.
I could emlinate one set of 6x9's rear and mabe console ,with popouts two and hidden handgun compartment thats also electric activated ,shifter drink holders,cd storage and electric panel its pretty full. Still working on cardboard piece,once worked out I'll do fiberglass deal and then can post few pics.Oh yea after getting new camera,last one f-ed up.
Back to stereo need info on bi amp thing. and wouldn't amping each section help with the blinding of sound.

Tubbed II listening to rap would explain big wheels, Sry couldn't resist,ok could but didn't want to.

[chris mc bride]

Looks like Jimmydean has simualr shopping list. Most will be from ebay part of reason getting list in case I find good deal,only good if I can use it.Plus those some good size amps on his list.Always like extra power.only important if you want to use it.

[WAAF]

bi amped.. 4 channel amp used as a 2 channel..
1 channel we'll say right rear goes to the right woofer the right front channel to the mid and high drivers
same with left side.. this does two things.. lower end (bass and mid bass) take more power and when an amp clips it kills tweeters.. but this way that channel running your mid bass drivers are not dealing with the highs , the other channel is running your mids and highs and because it's not as taxed.. they sound cleaner,
the other thing it allows is you can use the amps gain knobs to taylor the balance between the mid bass and mids and highs.. as they are on different channels.. and with most amps having a low filter.. bonus..
the sound will be cleaner and tighter.. because no one channel is being taxed..

[jimmydean]

Originally Posted by chris mc bride

Looks like Jimmydean has simualr shopping list. Most will be from ebay part of reason getting list in case I find good deal,only good if I can use it.Plus those some good size amps on his list.Always like extra power.only important if you want to use it.

I won't be using hardly 50% of the power the high amp put out, but I like the overhead and they are the same physical size, so they look good together (and fit in the space).

Besides, the RMS rating is more like 500W each, but bridged they will max at 1000W, so they call them 1000W amps.

My breakdown is like this (rms):
500W per sub
75w per 6.5 coax
125w per 6.5 separate
30w per 4"

It works out nice and should sound pretty good

I might be a cheap bastard, but I won't run garbage. My stereo won't be show level, but it's a far cry from anything you will find stock for fit and finish.

[jimmydean]

I built a cheesy console for fun (in my build thread, can't post pics from work). I will likely be running the M20 trans, so the shifter location will change and won't be able to use it, but I will have a 7" tablet mounted in the console with cup holders built in.

[tubbedII]

Originally Posted by chris mc bride

Tubbed II listening to rap would explain big wheels, Sry couldn't resist,ok could but didn't want to.

It's funny because I've never been a big wheel fan...but I thought the Blazer deserved them...I still toss the idea around of something else...maybe 1 day, but it'd have to come into some $ that I don't have right now!

I'm still not getting the bi-amp deal...sorry if I'm being dense. Are you talking about using 2 4 channel amps and running each speaker bridged? I don't see anything wrong with that, other than 4 channel amps might be more $ than 2 channel amps.

I'm with Jimmydean...I look for the least expensive (try not to use the word cheap with stereo equipment) route at all times while not using garbage. Certain things are just worth the extra $, and I feel that's in the head unit and amps.

Sounds like you got some extensive plans for the panel...I really want to see updates on this one!

[jimmydean]

I haven't spent money on a head unit in about 5 years (I haven't even bought physical media), so no input there. But the bulk of my budget is in speakers and quality amps. There can be a big difference in sound quality between amps, but even the best amp will sound like crap using junk speakers.

I am not a brand whore, but I have good ears.

[WAAF]

Originally Posted by jimmydean

I haven't spent money on a head unit in about 5 years (I haven't even bought physical media), so no input there. But the bulk of my budget is in speakers and quality amps. There can be a big difference in sound quality between amps, but even the best amp will sound like crap using junk speakers.

I am not a brand whore, but I have good ears.

only amps I've ever had that the as spec'd watts and distortion% was the same after 1 hour of use at 65% or higher of their rated output...
have been rockfordfosgate and JLaudio
most of the others are over 5-10% distortion after being on that long...

but if your going to be useing an ipod or other compressed media.. it really don't matter.. junk in= junk out

[jimmydean]

Originally Posted by WAAF

but if your going to be useing an ipod or other compressed media.. it really don't matter.. junk in= junk out

I'm using a line driver after my digital input into my pre amp crossover, so it will be anything but junk going in.

My 4 channel is rated at 4 x 125 @ 4 OHMS RMS
My 2 channel is rated at 2 x 400 @ 4 OHMS RMS

[WAAF]

Originally Posted by jimmydean

I'm using a line driver after my digital input into my pre amp crossover, so it will be anything but junk going in.

My 4 channel is rated at 4 x 125 @ 4 OHMS RMS
My 2 channel is rated at 2 x 400 @ 4 OHMS RMS

if your use'n any flash or i pod type media.. it's junk in
they didn't re invent the wheel, they just cut data out to get it to fit in a small file,
I use an i pod too. but the difference in sound is huge

[jimmydean]

Originally Posted by WAAF

if your use'n any flash or i pod type media.. it's junk in
they didn't re invent the wheel, they just cut data out to get it to fit in a small file,
I use an i pod too. but the difference in sound is huge

Only if you use compressed media with a crap sample rate. You can have digital media that isn't stripped out. What do you thing they burn onto the CD you are playing? I have been working in digital media distribution for over 10 years, this isn't my first movie.

But back on topic.

I'm not a fan of 6x9's, but that is just a personal preference. Rather than a 6x9, you could do a 6.5/3.5/tweet in about the same space and get much better sound.

[chris mc bride]

OK now back to english guys compressed media digital media sounds like greek to me.
Now the head unit , amps and quality speaker I'm with you.Give ma cd player,lots of wattage for speakers and Im good to go can tune to suit after that.
My dis[play design requires differant size amps for effect Im after.While not stuck on Alpine name I do have one already and getting another to match plus smaller size will work great problem getting one to match the older one. I will be installing bass limiters ,unless someone can tell me how to keep from blowing speakers w/o them.Last set of speaker I bought came with deal that for 20 bucks you had 3 years unlimited warranty.Bad move on there part after 7 sets they decided to give me bass limiters worked great for speakers,Hey ZZ TOP has ton of bass in their stuff.

[WAAF]

Originally Posted by chris mc bride

. I will be installing bass limiters ,unless someone can tell me how to keep from blowing speakers w/o them.Last set of speaker.

this is just an idea.. there are tons of these and the sky the limit on there cost..
http://www.crutchfield.com/p_1616XSG...ay.html?tp=117

or
http://www.crutchfield.com/p_20603KX...X3.html?tp=117

these take the lows out before they get to the amps.. alllowing them to work easier.. and will sound a kell of alot better than the inline bass blockers
good luck,,

and Jimmiedean your running a server in your truck?

[72lb4x4]

Duh, all this is so far beyond me, I was going to say don't get a regular (DIN?) radio so nobody steals it.
Call me Dorothy, I'm trapped in s time warp!

[dmwphoto]

I plan on being at Audio Express when they open this am to check into the possibilities for my 71 C10.

[dmwphoto]

well thanks to this thread and Tubbed's advice I broke the bank today. They are installing a system for me now. Went with the Kenwood excelon bluetooth head, Focal speakers (4) and Rockford fosgate subwoofer and 2 amps. they are building me a custom console for the sub woofer that will also have an outlet for the ipod to connect. will take about 2 weeks to complete. afraid to say how much it cost me.....

[WAAF]

focal speakers are overkill are they installing fatmat all over..