Whats your impression of a 5.3L LS motor in these trucks?

[CC69Rat]

Well said Special-K .. Not suprised brother

Maybe I'm just a little afraid of them too cause if it breaks, I just don't know as much about the new ones as I do the old ones. I don't want to get stuck in some sort of Error Code / Fault Code etc. I don't know how to fix. With the old stuff, a Phillips / Flat, and a 9/16 and you can at least get home.

[ctandc]

The "Fixability" (is that even a word? LOL) of the newer Fuel Injected and computer controlled engines seem to intimidate a lot of people. With a laptop, the right cable, and the right software package, diagnosing an issue with a newer drivetrain is actually a lot easier a vast majority of the time.

Not to mention the ability to tune the engine with the press of a button or a mouse click.

The newer engines are literally designed to go 100K without any service what so ever, besides normal maintenance. If GM wasn’t confident in these engines, they wouldn’t offer the powertrain warranties they currently offer.

Many of the “problems” encountered with the LSx engines are created by owners who do modifications.

I had a 4th F-Body with a LS1 / T56 combo. That car had close to 100K when I got it. I drove it hard. It was bone stock, no mods. When I got rid of it, the mileage was closing in on 140K. The guy who bought it planned on yanking the motor when it gave up the ghost, and building it up. He’s still driving it. In fact last I heard he was planning on pulling it because the clutch was ready to be replaced. The engine itself was still going strong. He did mention he hoped to see 200K on it before yanking it.

Keep in mind that this car saw the drag strip on average probably once a month. And it wasn’t babied.

I’m currently on the lookout for a 4.8/5.3 combo for the kid’s ’65 C10 we’re starting on. If the price is right, I’ll pull the trigger. In my area it’s actually cheaper in the long run to buy a wrecked or otherwise damaged vehicle and pull the drivetrain and part out the rest. Reason being that people have caught on that these engines are popular for swap material. A guy I used to work with buys the newer style trucks and SUVs with the LSx drivetrain and parts them out. Around here the it’s not unheard of to get an easy $3K for a complete 5.3 with tranny and wiring harness. The other issue is that a lot of potential swappers bought engines, not realizing they needed the wiring harness, PCM and the tranny.

I’ve seen guys try to piece together the drivetrain because they got a “Good Deal” on the engine, only to end up spending as much or more than they would have if they bought the entire drivetrain, ready to go.
As far as cost comparison with building an older style small block Chevrolet, the divide is closing.

Like someone else mentioned, if you’ve got a good running engine now, then swapping in a LSx drivetrain, unless you get a GREAT deal, is not the most sensible choice from an economic perspective.

If you have a truck without an engine, or an engine that needs a total rebuild, the cost could be close to a wash. It all depends on what you want out of the engine in your truck.

Buying a good running very mild 350, cleaning it up and throwing in your truck is a far cry from a properly setup LSx engine.

Building a good performing, reliable old style small block Chevy is not a far reach (in cost) from a stock 5.3. And that’s doing all the wrench work yourself.

That being said, most of us who work on and drive older vehicles, we know that it doesn’t make the best economic sense to begin with. If it was all about saving $$$, we’d all drive a 30mpg + compact car.

Now of course many times we try to use other “arguments” to convince ourselves (or our significant others LOL) that “Swapping in a 5.3 and OD for the 350 / 3 speed will save money.” Sure it will save money on gas, but what about initial investment? The other things needed to do the swap? The wiring work, the tuning etc?

I also see people “justifying” their swap by talking about how much more “driveability” the new engines have.

“Just crank the key and go.”
“No need to adjust the carb etc.”

I don’t know what conditions some of you are driving in, but I’ve had both modern EFI engines, I’ve retrofitted EFI (mainly TPI) engines into project cars, and I’ve also daily driven carb’d engines.

I drove a 408 small block with a single plan intake and a carb setup EVERYDAY, rain or shine. Averaged 20k+ the two years I drove it. Did it get wonderful gas mileage? Of course not, it wasn’t designed or built of that. But with a moderate rear gear ration and a 5 speed tranny, it didn’t do as bad as you might think. I drove that car when the temp was 10 degrees and when it was 100 degrees. I don’t ever remember having to do a lot of “tuning” for weather conditions. It’s not like I was driving in massively different altitudes every week.

In fact I put right at 50K on that engine, and the only thing I remember doing to it was changing the HEI cap and rotor, because I had used a “freebie” replacement when I dropped the engine in, and it crapped out on me.

In the end it will always be the owner’s choice, as it should be.

If you plan on swapping a LSx engine into your truck, and you have a decent running engine now, if your primary reason for swapping is saving money, you’ll likely end up disappointed.

It’s the same boat as people who traded in paid off Surburbans and Tahoes when gas prices first jumped after Katrina. They traded 12-14mpg and no car payment for AT MOST a mpg twice as good, plus the car payment. It would take YEARS for many of these people to ever realize any true savings. But I’m sure they felt better when they weren’t dropping $100 at the gas pump every week.

I guess this long-winded post is simply meant say…

“Do what your wallet and your ability allows. As long as YOU like it, who cares what anyone else thinks.”

[SweetandLong68]

Great post! I enjoyed reading it! haha Long winded or not!

lata
CHRIS

[468BIGBLOCK]

I love those lsx based engines. good mileage and great power!!

[OldCreek]

These swaps always seem to "nickle and dime" me to death, though.

Remember this, we all talk about getting a LSx motor and tranny for a "cheap" price. But in reality, we're usually taking a gamble. How do we really know if the engine needs new gaskets or if the tranny needs a rebuild, etc?

[468BIGBLOCK]

Originally Posted by OldCreek

These swaps always seem to "nickle and dime" me to death, though.

Remember this, we all talk about getting a LSx motor and tranny for a "cheap" price. But in reality, we're usually taking a gamble. How do we really know if the engine needs new gaskets or if the tranny needs a rebuild, etc?

my daily driver is a 01 suburban with 260K MILES ON IT. it does not need anything replaced on it it dont leak any where. i dont why you would think that a lower mileage engine purchased from a reputable salvage yard or dealer would have any problems.

[BlazinC5]

When I was kid, looking into ideas for a career, My father and I had quite a few discussions. One of them was about beeing an auto mechanic. His personal take on it was of course the old school thought of things. Saying things like, there are lots of backyard mechanics out there to compete with and vehicles are getting harder to work on every year. And why they need a computer to run makes no sence when a carb works just fine. After being talked into being a machinist instead and around 20 yrs later, Was he rite? Well, yes and no.
Pesonally, I find the new stuff harder to get my dang hands into when working in the tighter spaces, not so much about figuring out what is wrong with it, like my dad was thinking.. An OBD2 code reader isn't all that expencive, especialy one from walmart. And they can tell you what is wrong down to what plug was misfiring. Sure seems to help eliminate the guesswork. My first EFI engine was a 87 camaro with a TPI 305. I had no idea how it worked I just wanted the car. But I went throught the whole engine bay, fixing all the typical white trash wire rats nests, disconnects, and faulty parts, learning from books on how and why it works the way it does. I Also learned how simple it really is. Since then EFI to me is the way to go.
If you get rite down to it, EFI is just a monitoring system that says "ok, add fuel, spark the plugs did I get it right? oops, adjust and try it again, is it rite now,, If it ain't that idiot light is going to come on cuz something is jacked the F up in here buddy." Compaired to carbs, similar results, just a different way of doing it.
I haven't decided on exactly what engine I will be putting into my 71, But I know it will be LS. I have read every post in this thread and I also notice people complaining about the added wires, electronic gas pedal, hiding the computer/ ect. Stuff that don't look very good in most peoples eyes. And we'll just leave the plastic cover issue alone. lol.. But, I say get creative to hide it. nothing says a wire has to be exposed. So tuck it away, loom it, make a cover of your own for it. We who build these trucks are just redesigning what is already out there, rite? so mod it up if your so concerned. My truck does need a whole new engine reguardless and the way I would want an old school 350, it would cost close to the same as putting in a salvage yard 5.3. So I feel upgrading to the newer stuff would be beneficial in some respect of stock fuel ecconomy/H.P. even though the work and effort to do so is alot more. But hey,,, It's a hobby to me, half the fun is trying to figure things out and make it truly mine...
BTW, a few years before my dad had a stroke and could no longer drive or work on stuff, he did embrace the new tech stuff pretty well, Course that took some late nights of BSin and many a bottles too convincing.

[OldCreek]

Originally Posted by 468BIGBLOCK

my daily driver is a 01 suburban with 260K MILES ON IT. it does not need anything replaced on it it dont leak any where. i dont why you would think that a lower mileage engine purchased from a reputable salvage yard or dealer would have any problems.

This is not a knock on the LSx. In fact, I've bought used Lsx engines from the yard and off of craigslist. However, do you not see an inherent risk from buying a product that you can not first see/hear run? At best, you may get a trade in or your money back but that can't refund the time you wasted getting and installing said item.

It is certainly a risk...one that I'll probably keep making in the future. Is the cost worth the risk...evidently.


On another note, I sure enjoy being in my old trucks than my current daily driver. That's why I'm building one to get to that D.D. stage. Hopefully, I can get the mpg up there...but I will accept something close. I can't think of a Hyundai that would make me smile everytime I got into it....

[grancuda]

To me the computer has nothing to do with it. It all comes down to a lot of work & money for nothing gained.

[SweetandLong68]

Originally Posted by grancuda

To me the computer has nothing to do with it. It all comes down to a lot of work & money for nothing gained.

Nothing gained? I wouldn't say that so much.

lata
CHRIS

[ls1nova71]

The correct answer to the question though, is, there is no correct answer. It boils down to what YOU like. If we were all the same the world would be a very boring place.

If we woke up tomorrow, and suddenly it was 1972, the purists would be the guys restoring Model A's, while us LS swap guys would be the ones hot ridding them. Its really to each his own.
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[GOPAPA]

I have a 5.3 in my 4/4 Silverado and I have gotten around 18-19 mpg on average on a 3000 mile trip ,I do have I believe a higher speed rear end (3:25 think) tho and that is where I am gaining mpg at..

[FLDBRED]

I hate to say it but five years from now we won't even be having this conversation, everything will be LS!

[grancuda]

Originally Posted by FLDBRED

I hate to say it but five years from now we won't even be having this conversation, everything will be LS!

Really....

[FLDBRED]

Originally Posted by grancuda

Really....

I myself hate change, but there is a local shop that has started to do LS swaps, he's booked to months out and has started to ask outrageous prices, yet people keep coming! He literally can't get rid of the small blocks that he is removing and has started to come down on price of even the big blocks. Like I said, I don't like it, but change is coming. At least they're Chevy's!

[SweetandLong68]

Lol

[mcbassin]

If your not after a crap load of HP and do want the driveablility of an LSX, don't be afraid of the 4.8. They are cheap and plentiful.

You guys that are only finding $3k engines need to look for a crashed truck on cragislist or Ebay has loads of them. Don't be afraid to have one shipped either. There are plenty of guys on the LS section that have had them shipped.

[SweetandLong68]

Originally Posted by mcbassin

If your not after a crap load of HP and do want the driveablility of an LSX, don't be afraid of the 4.8. They are cheap and plentiful.

Personally I am looking for the balance between performance, driveability, price, etc..

They are super cheap and make killer turbo motors! LOL

lata
CHRIS

[Clyde65]

I know mine isnt a 67-72 but I have the 4.8/4l60e and it has plenty of power for me, nothing crazy or 'stang killer but I like it, only have a performance tune and headers. I also get roughly 18MPG when on the hwy, probably a little more if I didnt like the right pedal so much.

[Ole Greenie]

This thread has really interested me. I have learned alot by all the posts but I do have a few things to say. When SBC and BBC motors get hot while idling in traffic, they run like crap (with carb). Most owners know this but most owners of our trucks also don't drive in traffic (idle). Those who do also know that they can't wait till they get going again. Why do we drive them in traffic? Well we love driving these old trucks!

With all the debate about SBC and the LXX motors, we drive them because we love them, so why shouldn't we make them more amicable to driving...especially in traffic? It certainly is cool to see a nice to see a vintage truck in a back road but much more cool to see one in traffic in a small city (or large city) where everything is a toyo, a huyandai or nissan.

I for one would welcome a 6.0 with tranny to swap for my BBC LS6 with 450 horse. Besides, I know FI too.

[grancuda]

Originally Posted by Ole Greenie

This thread has really interested me. I have learned alot by all the posts but I do have a few things to say. When SBC and BBC motors get hot while idling in traffic, they run like crap (with carb). Most owners know this but most owners of our trucks also don't drive in traffic (idle). Those who do also know that they can't wait till they get going again. Why do we drive them in traffic? Well we love driving these old trucks!

With all the debate about SBC and the LXX motors, we drive them because we love them, so why shouldn't we make them more amicable to driving...especially in traffic? It certainly is cool to see a nice to see a vintage truck in a back road but much more cool to see one in traffic in a small city (or large city) where everything is a toyo, a huyandai or nissan.

I for one would welcome a 6.0 with tranny to swap for my BBC LS6 with 450 horse. Besides, I know FI too.

I drive my '72 C10 daily, with out any "idling issues". I drive to Tulsa in big city traffic with 20-30 min stop & go back-ups with no issues. In the past 4 years I have put 90k+ miles on my old '72 GMC I sold & my current '72 C10. These have the old antiquated 350's with carb and I have zero reliability & decent mileage even with no OD & 3.73.
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[Ole Greenie]

Originally Posted by grancuda

I drive my '72 C10 daily, with out any "idling issues". I drive to Tulsa in big city traffic with 20-30 min stop & go back-ups with no issues. In the past 4 years I have put 90k+ miles on my old '72 GMC I sold & my current '72 C10. These have the old antiquated 350's with carb and I have zero reliability & decent mileage even with no OD & 3.73.
Posted via Mobile Device

Fantastic! Very glad you are happy with your motor.

[BHyatt]

That is great Ackattack! I will keep looking as I am about as cheap as they come. If I know that I can find a better deal somewhere I will not give up until I find one at $350 or less. Everyone needs some patience and the deal can be had.

[CC69Rat]

Just some numbers to consider:

Daily Driver (using my own)
@ 450miles per week 15mpg I burn 30 gallons. At $5 gl = $150 per week
Same numbers - 25mpg I burn 18 Gallons = $90 week.

I don't drive my trucks every day. Most of us don't if I had to guess.

$240 mo - it would take me about two years to offset the cost of gas @$5000 for my LS swap (done how I would do it). That's a daily driver. No way I drive either one of my trucks 450 miles a week. .. so the time for ROI would be at least 4 years.

$240/mo would pay a monthly payment on a Hyundai, and I get 30+ mpg.

I personally (no disrespect) think the LS swaps are just a craze. The coolness factor, and all the cool kids are doing it. If the 'old school' stuff was going away it would have already gone. Just my opinion. Watch Pass time? How many LS motors do you see. How many big blocks? You want Raw power? How many Top Fuel LS motors have you seen? The Big Blocks still have everything they always had IMO. I'm not about to crush my Big Block just so I can have a 5.3L in my truck. .. just sayin. And it looks like Ole Greenie is still pretty proud of his LS6 @$7500. I would be too.

There's still something to be said about a cleanly detailed carbed motor. I like the LS stuff too, but I just can't justify the cost of the swap or putting an engine in my truck that I haven't gone through myself. I just know more about the old stuff. .. cause I'm old I guess. I have a wife, a mortgage, and a 50hr week job.. My old 350 3OTT will do for now. I can't return $5,000 in the value added to the truck.

If it were a daily I might feel differently but I may put 100 miles a week on my GMC. the rest of the time I ride with my wife, to / from work .. in our Honda CRV.

I'm good with mine as they are for now. $10 a gallon, .. what can we do about it? Crush all the old stuff and sell it for scrap? Why not just buy a new Silverado? Where will they be 43yrs from now? Just my take on it.

[HuggerCST]

Originally Posted by CC69Rat

I personally (no disrespect) think the LS swaps are just a craze. The coolness factor, and all the cool kids are doing it.

I used to think the same way, especially after the LT engines came and went. Going with the latest fad would only leave your build looking "dated" after a few years, but the LS has been around long enough that they are very common now, and seem to be slowly taking the place of the sbc because of it. Only time will tell. Though still plentiful, the sbc and bbc engines are slowly disappearing from the salvage yards. It's nice to be able to buy & install a 100,000 mile engine without rebuilding it, have good power, fuel mileage, and be able to put another 100,000 on it without major repairs. As much as I like old school, most LS engines are outlasting the vehicles these days. It's rare for a carburated engine to go 200,000 miles without internal problems. It's all about what you like though, and what you want to do with it, how much you drive it, etc. Like said, you can buy a lot of gas for what it normally costs to swap.