Brake bleeding trouble... still

[Stocker]

Two hours labor + the parts I needed anyway. I haven't had truck payments for 35 years so I'm not gonna complain.

[ole dollor]

stocker: i am happy for you, i hate when it takes days to figure out problems, that is why two heads are better than one, past experince is a good thing, now you can enjoy your pickup....like you have done for so many years.....

[litew8]

Yes, and you should post a picture of your truck so we can all appreciate.

[jaros44sr]

^^^^ i agree, like to see pics., glad you got the problem solved....wouldnt have suspected the wheel cylinder

[litew8]

Do you have any pics on the internet somewhere?
You can link to them by clicking the Insert Image button, then
copy paste the URL where your picture is.

[VWNate1]

Glad to hear of this .

FWIW , in these trucks , the original brake adjusting slot was on the outer face of the brake drum , you had to dismount the wheels to adjust the brakes , not a problem as this was only done during routine brake shoe relacement then the self adjusters did the rest .

For those who don't know , the self adjusting brakes are operated by backing up then stopping sharply ~ every time you replace the brake shoes you should also take the time to clean the threaded brake adjuste and lightly grease the threads with white lithium grease .

If the edges of the adjuster star are rounded , it's because the adjuster was too stiff to turn and self adjust ~ lucky for you , this is a cheap part available in any FLAPS .

What *I* do is : drive to a local steep hill , drive to the top then back down and brake hard to a complete stop several times , this will bring the most out of adjustment brakes right into spec. in 99 % of all vehicles .

I just received Motive pressure bleeder from JEGS and will try to get my big brother to come over and take photos of how it's used next week or whenever ~ it's dead simple and cheaper than paying the garage to do it once , plus you get to keep another tool and can make $ and freinds with it for the lext 10 years .

I hope all here know to never turn the brake drums ? .

[camrycurt]

Originally Posted by VWNate1

I hope all here know to never turn the brake drums ? .

Nate,

I wasn't aware that this wasn't recommended. Why is it a problem to have the drums turned? I thought that was a recommended part of a brake job.

Thanks!

[ole dollor]

Originally Posted by camrycurt

Nate,

I wasn't aware that this wasn't recommended. Why is it a problem to have the drums turned? I thought that was a recommended part of a brake job.

Thanks!

i done it all my life, as long as the drum is not to thin....i will say that nowadays that drums a lot cheeper than when i was doing this for a living, but i turned rotors and drums all the time....

[litew8]

Searched these forums and found a picture of Stocker's truck.
I would have grabbed more, but his photobucket account is locked

In this shot we can see the rear wheels that needed attention

[Stocker]

I'll be dipped!! Guess I completely forgot about that.... even forgot I ever had a photobucket account! Must have been from years ago when my daughter did that for me. Looks like most of the clearcoat was still there when that pic was taken. Now the truck looks like it has leprosy!

[VWNate1]

The why not , is because , even if the drum is still within spec. , it's too thin and will overheat & fade during towing or emergency stops .

I learned this when I took my Journeyman Bendix Factory Training , before then I too automatically turned all drums then I learned it's a B. S. sales gimmick to sell more drums .

What the Bendix Engineer said was : unless the drum is so severely out of round that you feel the brake pedal pulsate , or if it is so severely bell mouthed that the shoes wore un evenly to the side , the drum MUST NOT BE TURNED for basic safety reasons .

Sort of like changing the condenser every time you replace the points because " the condenser takes a ' burn ' to the points " ~ TOTAL BULL CRAP ! the only reasons to change condensers is failure (rare) or if the points are unevenly pitted ~ once in a while you'll get evenly pitted contact points and that condnser is -GOLD- NEVER replace it and your points will last 4 X longer .

But , you say ' what about when the shoes went metal to metal and the surface is all torn up ? ' ~ just sand it a bit with # 600 grit (coarse) sand paper and as long as the drum isn't over sized , run it ~ the new brake shoes will bed into the rough drum surface in 10 miles and be fine .

[slikside]

Originally Posted by VWNate1

The why not , is because , even if the drum is still within spec. , it's too thin and will overheat & fade during towing or emergency stops .

I learned this when I took my Journeyman Bendix Factory Training , before then I too automatically turned all drums then I learned it's a B. S. sales gimmick to sell more drums .

What the Bendix Engineer said was : unless the drum is so severely out of round that you feel the brake pedal pulsate , or if it is so severely bell mouthed that the shoes wore un evenly to the side , the drum MUST NOT BE TURNED for basic safety reasons .

Sort of like changing the condenser every time you replace the points because " the condenser takes a ' burn ' to the points " ~ TOTAL BULL CRAP ! the only reasons to change condensers is failure (rare) or if the points are unevenly pitted ~ once in a while you'll get evenly pitted contact points and that condnser is -GOLD- NEVER replace it and your points will last 4 X longer .

But , you say ' what about when the shoes went metal to metal and the surface is all torn up ? ' ~ just sand it a bit with # 600 grit (coarse) sand paper and as long as the drum isn't over sized , run it ~ the new brake shoes will bed into the rough drum surface in 10 miles and be fine .

Well, sounds logical enough......but too late. For me anyway. I don't think this is widely known (except here maybe). I too thought this was the right thing to do.

[VWNate1]

No worries ;

Few ever bother to take the time and effort to attend factory service , no matter who's it is ~ I take the job very seriously and always did so I'm still learning although my daily Mechanic's works is done .

[zicc1835]

subbed

[VWNate1]

THANK YOU for the photos .

Looking at the wheel cylinder it doesn't appear to be leaking but *gently* rolling back the bottom part of the rubber boot on each end will instantly tell you, either it'll be wet inside or not .

Certainly this needs to be taken apart cleaned and re assembled, riveted brake linings re better than bonded (glued) so depending on wear you -might- want to clean and re used them, new shoes are dirt cheap @ brakeshoewarehouse.com (? SP ?) or any FLAPS can get you those standard Bendix shoes in a day if they're not on the shelf .

Either way, get some white lithium grease and clean and lubricate the adjusters too, you'll be glad you did once it's all working again .

Remember : never, EVER turn in the old shoes (or any other parts) until two weeks after the job is done and you're 100 % satisfied as once you turn them in they're -gone- never to return, a problem when you take back the wrong new/relined shoes....

Resist the urge to have the drums machined/turned unless you had a pulsating brake pedal before you took it all apart .

Everything should be cleaned bone dry before re seemly, don't forget the dab of white lithium grease on the backing plate where the shoes touch ~ a tiny dab'll do ya there .

Only take apart ONE SIDE AT A TIME ~ this way when the job goes south or other problem crops up, you'll have a proper template of how to reassemble it all later .

Be smart and check under the lower edge of each cylinder's rubber boots, both ends, all four wheels .

Me, I'd at the very least take all four brakes apart for cleaning, inspection and lubricating as once one is dirty/greasy, they all are .

The front wheel bearings prolly need re packing too at this point .

You may not need much in the way of parts, just cleaning and so on .

[rpmerf]

I'd start with cleaning it down with brake clean, then attempt bleeding again. That way, if any NEW fluid shows up, you know it came from the wheel cylinder.

Some other brake bleeding tips. If you are leaving the bleeder open while pumping, wrap the threads in teflon tape to prevent sucking air from around the threads while the bleeder is open. The better method is to have one person open the bleeder, another press the pedal, close the bleeder, release the pedal. This can help prevent sucking air in from around the bleeder. The reason pressure bleeding works, is it is always pushing, never pulling, so it will not pull in air from around the bleeder (or anyplace that is leaking). Similarly for vacuum bleeding, but you can see bubbles in the vacuum line that are pulled form around the thread, or a bad seal between the vac hose and bleeder nipple. Vacuum bleeding will also pull air IN at any leaks in the system.

A couple issues. Bubbles down like moving downward. If you leave the bleeder open, the bubble can move forward and back without ever getting pushed out.

Never let the master run dry or you have to start over from square 1.

[guyryan100]

I found instructions on here somewhere for making a pressure bleeder using a garden pump sprayer, a hose fitting, and a rubber gasket. It made bleeding much easier, and got me past the never ending air bubble issue. It was about $25 in parts from the hardware store.

[VWNate1]

The main thing when pressure bleeding is to never use too much pressure .

I rarely go over about 5 PSI .

[Boog]

Yeah buddy! Too much pressure and not a good seal on the reservoir lid can make an awful mess. Do I need to remind anybody brake fluid can remove paint?