need a little help on a tpi swap

[birdman8711]

i have my 88 iroc z siting next to my truck and im wanting to do a swap into my truck as the camaro is wrecked the main thing im having problems figuring out is the fuel system id like to keep the in cab tank but not sure what to do to make it work with the tpi

[Bigdav160]

I had a '72 that I put a TPI into.

It ran great. For the fuel pump I used an external one on the frame rail. It was something I got out of a european car in the junk yard. (VW I think). The return I ran back to the sending unit.

[birdman8711]

you didnt need to pressurize the return line?

[Ackattack]

Originally Posted by Bigdav160

I had a '72 that I put a TPI into.

It ran great. For the fuel pump I used an external one on the frame rail. It was something I got out of a european car in the junk yard. (VW I think). The return I ran back to the sending unit.

My set up was pretty much the same. I used an external fuel pump from summit.

Mine was a 72 also, so the sending unit had a fitting I used for the return line. I put a TBI engine in my 69 and that sending unit didn't have the 2nd fitting for a return line, so I swapped it out for a 72 unit.

[Wootdog]

I know you stated you wanted to use the old tank. If a new motor, why not put the tank under the bed. Then more room in the cab. I got one from Rock Valley antique auto parts. Kinda pricey. Tanks that will work always seem to be on sale on this site. Anyways, I have supply and return lines in the tank and the fuel pump is in the tank also. I have it hooked up to an LT1.
Kerry

[68c10airstream]

Pressure regulator is on the fuel rail. Pump has more flow and pressure potential than what is needed so it's designed with this reserve in mind. So, the pump pushes all of this potential up to the injectors, then the regulator dumps the excess back to the tank. That way the injectors always have enough supply, because the regulator is on the return side. Tpi is good, but i will make a suggestion as i was a dealership mechanic for more years that i care to think of. Ok, here i go, your old tpi motor has definite value to a select crowd for originality sake, etc. Tpi was good for 250-300- horse power with issues of distributor behind water pump on some, carbon buildup on intake valves, extra horsepower potential, etc, Now don't get me wrong, they are good, but as a drivability guy i have a 2001 5.3 in my 68 c10. and i know which motor i would rather work on. I look at it this way, do your friends and neighbors complain of their late model trucks for power, fuel economy etc? probably not. Ok 5.3 stock 2001= 300 plus on 87 octane with 350-400 very cheaply attainable. Look at what you would spend to get 350 hp out of a tpi and 350 hp out of an ls? Tpi's don't like high rpms ls's do. Basically ls= new technology, tpi= prior technology. I'm not here to offend the tpi crowd because i almost did one in my 68c10, but i figured if i held out new things would have to improve. Good luch Brian F.

[WIDESIDE72]

Originally Posted by 68c10airstream

Pressure regulator is on the fuel rail. Pump has more flow and pressure potential than what is needed so it's designed with this reserve in mind. So, the pump pushes all of this potential up to the injectors, then the regulator dumps the excess back to the tank. That way the injectors always have enough supply, because the regulator is on the return side. Tpi is good, but i will make a suggestion as i was a dealership mechanic for more years that i care to think of. Ok, here i go, your old tpi motor has definite value to a select crowd for originality sake, etc. Tpi was good for 250-300- horse power with issues of distributor behind water pump on some, carbon buildup on intake valves, extra horsepower potential, etc, Now don't get me wrong, they are good, but as a drivability guy i have a 2001 5.3 in my 68 c10. and i know which motor i would rather work on. I look at it this way, do your friends and neighbors complain of their late model trucks for power, fuel economy etc? probably not. Ok 5.3 stock 2001= 300 plus on 87 octane with 350-400 very cheaply attainable. Look at what you would spend to get 350 hp out of a tpi and 350 hp out of an ls? Tpi's don't like high rpms ls's do. Basically ls= new technology, tpi= prior technology. I'm not here to offend the tpi crowd because i almost did one in my 68c10, but i figured if i held out new things would have to improve. Good luch Brian F.

I dont think anyone would argue that the ls engines are better all around than the tbi/ tpi/ lt1 motors, but as the op stated, he already has the tpi in a wrecked car. I ahd a similar situation with an lt1 from a 94 9c1. I ended up swapping it into a 91 olds wagon though.
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[birdman8711]

and what about the evap system for the fuel? and trust me id love to drop in a ls but im doing this on a tight budget and everyone wants an arm, leg, and your first born for an ls. im not looking for massive numbers its going to be my daily driver and as is the tpi has done me great i havent had anyone around here stick with me when it was in the iroc even with lazy 2.77 rear gear and thanks everyone for your help

[Bigdav160]

Vented gas cap?

[birdman8711]

what about this for fuel pump
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/vpn-gsl392/overview/
i know the tpi needs 45 psi and this is 60 psi max it should be fine right?

[Bigdav160]

Looks to be the same pump I run on my VP-HO Cummins diesel.

It should be fine.

[68c10airstream]

Hi, if you do the tpi, what trans was in the iroc? overdrive automatic? Remember that tpi's shine at probably 5'000rpm's and under with a good load of torque down low. What gear ratio in the truck? If it's a 3.73 or higher it will be fun down low but forget fuel economy. Just keep in mind the total package, use as much of the tpi as you can. What about speedo if using o/d auto? The truck is probably 600-800lbs heavier. You will be robbing the ecm, harness, etc from the iroc. If something would need to be programed, check and see who does it. This was the rage 20 years ago so i know the info is out there.

[birdman8711]

yes im robbing the harness ecm trans from the iroc the truck has 3.23 rear gear and the trans is the 700r4 and right now im not super concerned with fuel economy and the weight differance is actually about 200lbs lol and i just really want my truck has been down for almost a year and i want it back on the road lol and im going to get the egr system going again as PO blocked it off and it sucked down the gas but doing time trials everywhere didnt help either

[birdman8711]

bump

[LockDoc]

-
You can use your stock tank if you run a 1980 Datsun 280zx (Nissan) external Fuel pump, Available at Advance Auto Parts, p/n E8312.. $106.09. (online price)

http://shop.advanceautoparts.com/web...lVehicle=false

You don't have to run a return line to the tank, you just put a "T" in the line before the pump and it sucks it back into the fuel supply line.

LockDoc

[BustedCrank]

I would pull your tank on the camaro and rob the whole assembly out of it, then dissect it. You can probably make it work in your tank with little work. They are not complete units like the newer one from the 90s on up are. You can pull the pump itself out of the whole unit if you want. Remember, in tank units are more expensive, and more work to get installed. But in your case you already have one that could work. But the non in-tank pumps never last as long.

TPI was a good setup, up to about 4500 when it fell on its face. But great for a street car. Good power, yet decent mileage. After the "free mods" on the tpi setup, headers and exhaust, better air flow intake, and an msd ignition, I could average 28mpg on the highway with my 89. Thats a 350, 700r4, and 3.23 rear.

[MARKDTN]

Following is information on TPI swap in a 68-82 Corvette, however much of it is applicable to a 67-72 truck I also did for someone. The big difference is the fuel tank. If you don't mind the tank behind the seat, you can use a stock tank and the Ford external pump. The truck I did was a short bed and he wanted the tank out of the cab. I looked into a 87 truck TBI tank and I think it had clearance issues with the rear suspension (might work on a long bed). I used an '86 S10 Blazer tank from a 2.8TBI vehicle. I even used the fuel lines from this Blazer up to the engine compartment with some re-bending, but they worked pretty well. This put the filler rear and right. He swapped to a stepside bed from a 88-99 pickup and had the body shop swap the filler around. It did require a bit of frame cutting and boxing, but it was all behind the axle mounts. I just swapped the TBI pump to a TPI pump from an IROC Camaro. The TBI tanks work nicely because they use barbs on the hose insead of screwed firttings. Be sure to swap to FI hose and FI clamps, there is a difference and it is important. On the truck, he wanted headers. I despise headers, on my own truck I would use stock manifolds and weld a bung into the exhaust for the oxygen sensor. I mounted the ECM behind the glove box which took up a lot of room.You will want to upgrade to a CS144 alternator, the CS130 is not very reliable. If you have any other questions, please ask. This was written almost 10 years ago, so the prices are not correct anymore. Just look at the technical info below and ignore those details. I see you already have an engine and a Camaro harness to use.
*****************
A good external fuel pump will cost at least $100. I use an 88 Ford Truck external pump, $114 from CarQuest, made in Texas by Airtech (also available at O'Reileys). An aftermarket PROM with VATS and Emissions codes removed will be $100-200 depending on source and complexity. You will have to add an oxygen sensor to your exhaust, $20 for the sensor, $5 for the weld-in bung, and say $25 for an exhaust shop to weld it in if you can’t. Some harnesses use VSS and some do not. An auxiliary VSS sensor is around $75. I recommend using VSS to get better drivability. To install a TPI I say figure at least $800 plus the TPI unit and whatever repairs are necessary to bring it up to useable status.

Differences in years
All Corvette TPI intake manifolds work with the older (through 86) iron heads and the factory aluminum heads through 91. F-body TPI intakes use the upright center bolts on 87-92 and thus fit all 87-95 iron heads (non LT1). Either can be swapped to fit the other with some drilling. F-body has the fuel lines come out on the drivers side and has a central port for EGR. Corvette has fuel lines that come out on the passenger side and has an external port for EGR. Corvette fuel rails fit F-body intakes and vise-versa. The runners are all the same through the years, but the LH runner has a hole for a 9th injector in the 85-88 runners. This can be plugged off if you get a nice LH runner and don’t want the 9th injector or decide to run speed-density. The plenums all physically interchange, but 90-92 have an extra vacuum port for the MAP sensor used with the speed-density computers and wiring. 89 is an odd year, it is mass-air flow but without the 9th injector. 89 up throttle bodies can be used on all years, but a 85-88 throttle body requires a ½” hole be drilled in the front of a 89-92 Plenum for idle air. 89-92 Throttle bodies have a more desirable cable attachment. The cable attaches around a circular linkage which has a smoother actuation than the straight linkage on the 85-88. The Corvettes have an aluminum plenum extension over the distributor, the F-body extensions are plastic. The Corvettes use an HEI coil-in-cap distributor for 85-91 (Delco 1103680). 85-86 F-body also used a big-cap distributor. 87-92 F-Body used a small cap distributor with an external coil (Delco 1103479). This same distributor is used in the 87-95 5.0/5.7/7.4 TBI injected trucks and pre-LT1 B-body. The F-body intake gets it's exhaust for EGR from the center passages in the heads like most SB Chevys. A Corvette intake gets it's EGR exhaust from the RH exhaust manifold/header through a flex-tube to an opening near the distributor-no center passages in the intake. If you are required to keep EGR and you have a Corvette intake, I recommend getting the C4 exhaust manifolds. They are like mini-headers, and have a 2 1/2" outlet.

As far as a throttle cable to use, you must use a cable from the type car your throttle body came from if you want to have a chance of not cutting it. Again, 85-88 use a straight pull, while 89-92 have a circular attachment for more smooth actuation and so the inner cable is longer. On my 83 truck I used a TPI F-Body cable and it was OK, but I had to coil it up into a loop in the engine compartment because the housing was so long. I also TPI'd a 72 Chevy truck and used a 90 350 TBI truck cable for it. It was 1/2" short outside if anything, but I was pretty pleased with it all told-I didn't have to shorten it. In a Vette it might be about right. In all vehicles I've done you need a die grinder to square the firewall hole off a bit. All vehicles I've done used the late throttle-body.


As far as websites see:
www.corvettefaq.com for conversions or more TPI info at www.fuelinjection.com also www.jagsthatrun.com for misc hard to find conversion parts and info.

[birdman8711]

the engine is in good running condition along with the trans and i have the o2 sensor from the camaro and the wiring harness

[MARKDTN]

Well, put it in. It will bolt in. Use Truck manifolds or headers. Plumb in the fuel system-replace any regular hose with FI hose. It is really not that complicated once you get into it.

[MalibuSSwagon]

http://ls1tech.com/forums/17059521-post145.html

Originally Posted by ls1nova71

Started working on the fuel system. Since this is going to be a true 'get in it and drive anywhere' truck, I didn't want to have any low fuel starvation problems. On my blue truck, I bent the float arm on the fuel sender up, so that the gauge read empty when in fact it had about a 1/4 tank left in it. That way there was always enough gas in it to avoid problems. But with this truck I decided to try something a little different. A sumpe welded inthe tank and gravity fed to an external pump was my solution, or at least what I'm trying. The sump doesn't quite hold the quart of fuel I had hoped, but still should hold enough that under low fuel situations, and in a hard turn, the pump shouldn't be able to empty it before the fuel in the tank comes back.

This is the sump, and as a disclaimer, I DO NOT RECOMMEND ANYONE EVER WELD ON A USED GAS TANK. Do so at your own risk, but if something should happen, I told you not to! :angel:



I started by making a cardboard pattern, then transfered it to a piece of 18 guage sheet metal, and bent it up on a sheet metal break.



Then made some templates for the sides, and cut them out of the 18 gauge, and welded them together.



Marked where it needed to go and drilled some holes in the bottom of the tank, actually a few more than in this pic.



Then welded it to the tank. Put the gas cap on and the sender in, plugged all the openings and put some compressed air in the vent hose to pressurize it, then sprayed some soapy water to check for leaks. Didn't find any, so I think I'm good to go. I did however add some JB Weld to the welds just because I like to overkill everything.



Then I started making some fuel lines. Started with the return line from where the 5.3 lines come off near the back of the transmission. I'm using factory nylon fuel line with compression fittings. In the past I have always used fuel injection hose and fuel injection clamps, but with the ethanol blend in the gas around here, I've been finding the hoses don't last as long as they should, so I'm trying something different.



These are the fittings I'm using, they're made for repairing nylon fuel line. They come with nylon ferrules, whjich work on the nylon line, but when you put the other side on the steel hard line, you need to get brass ferrules. This is a pic of the steel line.



I wasn't always sold on compression fittings, so I did a test. This is a piece of stainless steel fuel line, I put a compression fitting on it with a brass ferrule, and tightened it down, then took it apart, the ferrule wouldn't come off. I cut it off, and this is what it did to the line. If they're strong enough to collapse a piece of stainless enough to seat themselves so they don't come off, then I can't forsee them ever blowing apart.





This is the front part of the return line, looks pretty slick I think. Just need to get out in the garage and finish it up, but just too cold right now.



I have about $10 in the sump materials.
Nylon fuel line from the Pick-n-Pull... $6
Compression fittings..... $20 so far, going to need more.
Also just ordered a 100 micron pre pump filter for $36 shipped, going to need to wait for it to show up before I can get the supply line all made up.

http://ls1tech.com/forums/17089039-post154.html

Originally Posted by ls1nova71

Finally got the fuel system finished, but ran into a problem with the Dorman 3/8 nylon to nylon fittings. The part of the fitting that goes inside the nylon line to keep the ferrule from collapsing the line was too big for the steel line to fit in. The 5/16 fittings worked fine, the steel line fit inside it with no problem, but the 3/8 was too big. So what I did was to get fittings for steel lines, but then had to find something to put in the nylon line to keep it from collapsing. The hardware store had some, but they were either too big or too small. Then I realized that a piece of 5/16 steel line was a perfect fit inside the 3/8 nylon line, but of course it couldn't be that easy, because it made getting the brass ferrule on impossible, it was just a tad too big. I could have used the nylon ferrules that came with the nylon to nylon fittings, but felt more comfortable tith the brass ones, so I took the 5/16 steel line piece and cut it lenghtwise with a cut off wheel and pinched it back together with a pair of pliers, perfect fit!



This is what it looks like in the line.



This is pretty much the whole fuel system, from the fitting that goes in the sump, to the 100 micron pre-filter, Walbro 255, to the Wix filter. Doesn't look like much, and is only a couple feet long, but took a while to get everything just the way I wanted it. Everything is secured and nothing is rubbing on anything to cause problems down the road.





Cut a hole in the floor for the feed line to go through....



Tank back in and lines hooked up.



I bought a new fuel sender for a 6 cylinder since I needed a 5/16 line for a return, and my truck originally being a 350 had a 3/8 line sender. Made a new line for it too.



I'll try to get some pics of the lines installed tomorrow.

Fuel system wasn't all that expensive,

Walbro 255... $110
100 micron pre-filter.... $36
Wix fuel filter.... $15
Roughly $40 in compression fittings
Steel line.... $25
Grommet for floor $2
New fuel sender.... $30
Nylon line, factory steel line pieces with o ring fittings for fuel filter, clamps and fuel filter bracket all came from the u pull it.... $15

He set this up for a 5.3l, but this is the exact setup you would need, except to join to the Camaro fuel rail you'd need to either get the 14 and 16mm Saginaw fittings to attach at the front, or the Street & Performance rear feed adapter fittings. I used the OEM braided stainless lines off a 91 TBI truck to attach at the front, followed by the filter and the hardlines from the same truck.

Also, Chevythunder.com is an excellent resource for swaps. That, and the TPI section of thirdgen.org

[birdman8711]

is there a way to use a mechanical fuel pump with the tpi set up?

[BustedCrank]

If you are talking about the factory style on the engine, no, not enough pressure.

[birdman8711]

okay im just trying to figure out how to get the fuel out of the tank to the electric inline pump then

[MARKDTN]

Originally Posted by birdman8711

okay im just trying to figure out how to get the fuel out of the tank to the electric inline pump then

Use a low pressure electric "kicker" pump. Have the little pump outlet supply the high pressure pump inlet.

[birdman8711]

the low pressure wont starve the high pressure and are you talking about the low pressure being a puller or in tank