I went Full Retard this morning.

[Ziegelsteinfaust]

My C20 died a couple of weeks ago, and I needed to get something running. I was doing an in depth CL search late last night, and found a guy with 2 4x4's for sale for stupid cheap. So this morning after I slept on it I gave the guy a call, and put a down payment for the 2 trucks.

Both are 73's, and 3/4 tons.

1 has a running sbc, and full gear. I believe this has a D60 with either electronic hubs or full time 4wd. Not sure which I do not know much about them. This one has a 4-6 inch lift, and bunch of other cool parts. It has camper special badges on it.

The 2nd has has a decent body, and I am sure this has a D44 with manual hubs. It has no engine, tranny, but it has a transfer case.

Both have 10.5 14 bolts.

So I am sure I will be able to make 1 very nice truck mechanically out of the 3 I have, and I can part ways with the rest.

This being my first 4x4 I do not know much of factory 4x4's or even modified ones.

If I run the stock height parts on a 3/4 ton. How much tire can I run? Also what is a optimal tire size for going down dirt roads, up hills, but no bumping rocks.

How do they drive when you lift them up 6 inches with 35 inch tires on they. Or is it more about the tires provided the suspension is in good repair.

Neither had cross over steering from what I know. When does it become necessary or the better option?

How weak is a D44 3/4 ton axle? I just want a decent 4x4 so I may want to sell the D60 to help fund this project. If I do sell the D60 front, and go with a D44. I will likely add a 9.5 14 bolt to increase mpg possibilities.

Are 4 link kits good for off-road, and road handling? I can also get 65 trailing arm set-up if I want it. Can I use this on the rear or would the transfer case block me from using it.

Both trucks are long beds. Is bobbing one for a short bed worth it when driving or does the long bed handle the miles better. I know off road yes, but I am talking laying down some hwy miles to get somewhere.

Is adding a Suburban tank to the rear instead of the dual sides help with traction?

At this point I am not sure what I want to do with it, but based on my C20 a 3-4 inch lift wouldn't be bad for my needs. I want it to be capable of road trips to go fishing, and such. So I need to balance full capability with decent mpg to have a good round project.

Later down the road I plan to add a 4L65 to the mix to help with hwy driving. I have a full set of bolt on's to go with the truck I got so the sbc should have plenty of torque for cruising. Being I come from 2wd's car's, and trucks best mpg came roughly at 70-75 at 2000rpm. So with 4wd parts my thought is just under 2500rpm would be about the sweet spot, and from what I heard from friends 65 is a decent mph. I would like to get 15+mpg hwy at a steady speed, and avoid the 8-10 most people get.

If you have any advice let me know. I have a week to research before my trucks get here, and I have to do something.

[dbash]

Thats a lot of questions in one post.....

I am going to put my two cents in anyway. Your going to have to choose between a 6" lifted, 4 linked, big tired truck and fuel milage right now.... you will not get both.

Sounds like you have a big project ahead of you. Have fun and good luck.

[i82much]

Man that is a lot to digest. What, realistically, are you trying to do? You don't need 35's to have some fun off-road. Decent 31" tires, preferably something light like a Duratrac, will save you a ton in gas. And unless you are doing some real hauling or running big tires, you don't need a super heavy duty axle.

OTOH, if you are going to wheel the heck out of this thing, run that Dana 60 fo sho.

[Ziegelsteinfaust]

I don't plan to bump rocks or go to Moab with the truck. It is my intention to have a nice riding 4x4 that can tackle dirt roads, and desert stuff with ease. Basically one hell of a fishing truck I guess.

Good enough to get me there, and strong enough to get me back.

I live in the LA area so we really do not have much in the way of mudding, or extreme off-road. Azusa canyon is pretty extreme, and from what I understand you need 33's-35's minimum pretty much. Shorter tires, and you better be going slow over the river rocks. Anyplace else is a long long drive, and I am not ready for that yet.

I was thinking of using my PYO's with some real nice 265-75-16's for the truck maybe taller 28570-16's which I read fit. This way I can get where I want to go with out draining the wallet faster then necessary.

[andrewmp6]

Yes you can 4 link the front and rear of a 4x4 if you got the cash to do it.Being you have 35s they are around the max size you can run safely on a dana 44 before breaking if pushed hard.The options are beef up the dana 44 with better axles or use the dana 60 that's up to you really.The truck arms i would pass on they are only good if your going to jump the truck,Anything else off road they would cause problems flexing.

[68panelman]

What's electronic hubs?

[lowrollin70gmc]

If it were me, I would build a mild rig stock height, stock steering with 33s (I love 255/85/16s) running the Dana 60 (Or sell the 60 and use the D44 if the 60 needed a lot of work) and 14BFF.

To make it easier, I just replied in red.

Originally Posted by Ziegelsteinfaust

1 has a running sbc, and full gear. I believe this has a D60 with either electronic hubs or full time 4wd. Not sure which I do not know much about them. This one has a 4-6 inch lift, and bunch of other cool parts. It has camper special badges on it.
I would double check that it has a D60F as they weren't put in 3/4 tons or any trucks before 1977. Could have been swapped in, and some years did use stock drive flanges (no electronic hubs)


If I run the stock height parts on a 3/4 ton. How much tire can I run? Also what is a optimal tire size for going down dirt roads, up hills, but no bumping rocks.
Many guys run 31s or 33s at stock 3/4 ton height. It depends how crazy off road you get and what amount of trimming you're willing to make what height you need for what size. Tire width and wheel backspacing can also effect fitment. If you already have lift springs you could always make a bastard pack from between the trucks to get the height and rate you want.

How do they drive when you lift them up 6 inches with 35 inch tires on they. Or is it more about the tires provided the suspension is in good repair.

If all the bushings are in good shape, they drive decent. My K20 is lifted 4" and I run 35s or 37s (depending on season) and it drives great down the highway.


Neither had cross over steering from what I know. When does it become necessary or the better option?

Crossover steering can be done, but is not necessary on a street rig. It's also a hot topic on this forum, so you can search for past threads about it and decide for yourself. My only suggestion if stock push-pull steering is retained on a lifted truck is to run a dropped pitman arm or dropped steering link instead of a spacer on the axle side. That's a lot of stress to trust on 4 studs.



How weak is a D44 3/4 ton axle? I just want a decent 4x4 so I may want to sell the D60 to help fund this project. If I do sell the D60 front, and go with a D44. I will likely add a 9.5 14 bolt to increase mpg possibilities.

D44s are not bad axles, they just can't stand up to outright abuse. If you're just planning on a mild rig with 33s it would do fine. You don't sound like a rock crawler so it would probably suit you fine. I don't think there are mileage gains from a 10.5 to 9.5 14 bolt and you loose a lot of strength going to a 9.5 semi floater.

Are 4 link kits good for off-road, and road handling? I can also get 65 trailing arm set-up if I want it. Can I use this on the rear or would the transfer case block me from using it.

4 link kits are great, but if you're not going crazy leaf springs can more than handle the job. I like my rear shackle flip and I run a rear traction bar (a lot of diesel torque).

Both trucks are long beds. Is bobbing one for a short bed worth it when driving or does the long bed handle the miles better. I know off road yes, but I am talking laying down some hwy miles to get somewhere.

The longer the wheelbase the better riding the vehicle on the highway. It's more personal preference for short vs long bed. I would build a long bed and if you aren't happy (before paint, hopefully) then do the frame surgery. Easy to do if you have two frames, chop the spare frame and then transfer everything over.


Is adding a Suburban tank to the rear instead of the dual sides help with traction?

Could help, but I like to keep the spare there. Another personal decision.

At this point I am not sure what I want to do with it, but based on my C20 a 3-4 inch lift wouldn't be bad for my needs. I want it to be capable of road trips to go fishing, and such. So I need to balance full capability with decent mpg to have a good round project.

Stock height or a 2" lift on 33s sounds perfect for this, but no matter what it's shoving a brick down the road. The taller it is the worse aerodynamics and taller/heavier wheels and tires also bring down mileage

Later down the road I plan to add a 4L65 to the mix to help with hwy driving. I have a full set of bolt on's to go with the truck I got so the sbc should have plenty of torque for cruising. Being I come from 2wd's car's, and trucks best mpg came roughly at 70-75 at 2000rpm. So with 4wd parts my thought is just under 2500rpm would be about the sweet spot, and from what I heard from friends 65 is a decent mph. I would like to get 15+mpg hwy at a steady speed, and avoid the 8-10 most people get.

The weight and height of 4wds hurt mileage, and many modern trucks barely get better than 15mpg with fuel injection and overdrive. 65 is a great speed, I get better mileage at 65 than at 80 (if I can keep my foot out of it, and it doesn't help that I have a Cummins that gets great mileage even at 80)

If you have any advice let me know. I have a week to research before my trucks get here, and I have to do something.

[Ziegelsteinfaust]

Thanks Lowrollin.

I have a bunch of research to do before my trucks arrive this weekend.

Plus when they arrive I will take stock, and move forward with the best parts I have access too. I hope on of the trucks has a 205 transfer case at least get decent mpg for a truck.

I haven't decided, but since one truck has a 4-6 inch lift I may fix that one up for better re-sale in a couple of years.

Either way I have a bunch of thinking before I start on a path.

[argonaut]

I second everything that lowrollin said.

[USSkoval]

Just forget mileage, it ain't gonna happen. Expect 11 at best. Using a 9.5 rear won't make a difference that you will notice, and an np205 will not get you better mpg.

You can go a lot of places with a stock suspension and a set of 33's. Ride quality of a lifted truck depends mostly on tires and brand of the lift springs. Smaller lifts tend to ride more like stock.