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#1 |
Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Redmond, WA
Posts: 6,332
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Good thing they don't build 'em like they used to
I know it's a not a truck, but since our truck probably never were crash tested, I bet they're worse.
This is not an accident scene, it's a crash test. Talk about crumple zones!
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1970 GMC Sierra Grande Custom Camper - Built, not Bought 1969 Pontiac 2+2 427/390 4-speed Coupe 1969 Pontiac 2+2 427/390 4-speed Convertible |
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#2 |
Cluster King
![]() Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Junction City, OR
Posts: 5,263
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Re: Good thing they don't build 'em like they used to
Dave,
I am not 100% sure when GM started doing crash test but they do now and have for many years. It is the reason why newer vehicles are so much safer. Most think that all of that sheet metal is going to help them in an accident when it is the furthest thing from the truth. Keith Seymore can also chime in as he works at GM Proving Grounds in Milford, MI where they do crash test. I worked there in the late 90's and there was a lawsuit involving a 1959 Impala. They crashed like 4 of them, all clean sheet metal cars from California for a law suit. It was actually sad to watch. You are correct, it is a good thing they don't build them like they use to but they are so much more fun to drive than they are now. Take care, Tom
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Contact me on all of your gauge cluster needs. I specialize in restoration, repair and parts sales for 67-72 Chevy and GMC trucks. email me at tbonegarris@yahoo.com I am also a dealer for Counterpart for gauge cluster parts only. Also see my facebook page, CG&C |
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#3 |
Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Redmond, WA
Posts: 6,332
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Re: Good thing they don't build 'em like they used to
If you want to be really convinced, check out the 1959 BelAir vs 2009 Malibu (best watched fullscreen, click on it):
And you're not allowed to complaint about them wrecking a Bel Air unless you were really going to restore a brown FOUR DOOR. It's not a ZL1, folks.
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1970 GMC Sierra Grande Custom Camper - Built, not Bought 1969 Pontiac 2+2 427/390 4-speed Coupe 1969 Pontiac 2+2 427/390 4-speed Convertible |
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#4 |
Keepin an eye out
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: So.Cal
Posts: 3,921
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Re: Good thing they don't build 'em like they used to
Ouch^^^^^
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1970 Chevy C10 SWB 5.3 1996 Toyota Tacoma SR5 4x4 2007 Vespa GTS 250 Scooter ZIP 91351 |
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#5 |
Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Tacoma Washington
Posts: 890
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Re: Good thing they don't build 'em like they used to
The first post is interesting and probably a very high speed test. Since crumple zones are designed to crumple, I'm sure a new car would have been as bad or worse. It would be interesting to see a post 67 car in that crash video. Mass still generally wins. Crumple zones and air bags certainly decrease injuries and fatalities (provided the bumpers line up), but so do divided highways, seat belts and collapsible steering columns.
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I know a guy who's addicted to brake fluid. He says he can stop any time. 72 K10 396 75 Cj5 MPI 350 Chev 67 Chevelle 396, 4 speed 74 FXE 08 Tahoe Last edited by imjeff; 09-04-2014 at 07:36 PM. Reason: Forgot a point |
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#6 |
Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Redmond, WA
Posts: 6,332
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Re: Good thing they don't build 'em like they used to
The first photo was 100mph into a wall. I'm not sure what they were trying to prove. It's unlikely any current vehicle could make that scenario survivable. I mean maybe, but I doubt it.
Mass does help, but I don't agree it wins. The Bel Air vs Malibu proves that one, I think. When the passenger compartment is the crumple zone it's never good. We had a tragic head-on last week by my house. Killed the 16-year-old that caused it, the retired Chief of Police, his dog, and the wife is still critical. Word on the street (from firemen) is that the closing speed was 160mph. Partial offset collision, the worst kind to try to design for. I wonder why lifting trucks is even legal? I know I'll make some people angry by saying it, but it's not safe for the other people when the bumper is so far out of height spec. Especially when I'm the other people and I'm in a Corvette...
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1970 GMC Sierra Grande Custom Camper - Built, not Bought 1969 Pontiac 2+2 427/390 4-speed Coupe 1969 Pontiac 2+2 427/390 4-speed Convertible |
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#7 |
Cluster King
![]() Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Junction City, OR
Posts: 5,263
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Re: Good thing they don't build 'em like they used to
The thing that is easily misunderstood for new smaller compact cars is that they are designed to absorb all of that impact in the front/engine compartment area. Kind of like the safer barrier walls that nascar uses at there tracks now. Instead of having a great big hunk of metal that will not absorb anything, the new cars will and that absorption is why a driver can walk away from a head on now.
Run your 1972 Chevy pick up into a non movable object like the charger in the first post even at 20 MPH and see what absorbs all of that crash energy. See you in the hospital ![]()
__________________
Contact me on all of your gauge cluster needs. I specialize in restoration, repair and parts sales for 67-72 Chevy and GMC trucks. email me at tbonegarris@yahoo.com I am also a dealer for Counterpart for gauge cluster parts only. Also see my facebook page, CG&C |
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#8 | |
Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Tacoma Washington
Posts: 890
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![]() Quote:
Your comment about bumper height could just as easily be thrown back at you. Why should you be allowed to have a bumper height so low? Maybe you should have a giant semi front bumper on the front of your vette? It could be argued that a bumper that low during hard braking is just a really fast wedge waiting to jack up another car! Lol! I've seen plenty of stock, newer cars miss bumpers during collisions. Kind of negates most of the safety systems. For the record, I would never outlaw mods due to bumper height. We live under enough rules as is. Jeff
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I know a guy who's addicted to brake fluid. He says he can stop any time. 72 K10 396 75 Cj5 MPI 350 Chev 67 Chevelle 396, 4 speed 74 FXE 08 Tahoe |
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#9 |
Special Order
![]() ![]() Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Mt Airy, MD
Posts: 85,859
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Re: Good thing they don't build 'em like they used to
The thing is,all this new safety in cars just makes people more dangerous. People still kill themselves in cars as easily as 40+ years ago. I never saw cars mangled back then as bad as I do today. Careful and conscious driving is the most effective safety device. Unfortunately,the biggest safety risk can't be engineered out of vehicles.
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"BUILDING A BETTER WAY TO SERVE THE USA"......67/72......"The New Breed" GMC '67 C1500 Wideside Super Custom SWB: 327/M22/3.42 posi.........."The '67" (project) GMC '72 K2500 Wideside Sierra Custom Camper: 350/TH350/4.10 Power-Lok..."The '72" (rolling) Tim "Don't call me a redneck. I'm a rough cut country gentleman" R.I.P. ~ East Side Low Life ~ El Jay ~ 72BLUZ ~ Fasteddie69 ~ Ron586 ~ 67ChevyRedneck ~ Grumpy Old Man ~ |
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#10 |
Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Indiana
Posts: 4,859
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Re: Good thing they don't build 'em like they used to
^ Hard to get rid of the loose nut behind the wheel, but they are trying!
On another note, I did see a 'Vette in a chain reaction wreck with 6 or 7 car pile up. The Vette had a car in its trunk and a car ON its hood and a pissed off driver inside! The wedge just went under the car in front like a ramp. I would call it funny, but I did give it a big WOW!
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'70 GMC C1500 LWB Power disc brakes. WooHoo! Posi 6 Lug Dana 60 |
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#11 |
Registered User
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Motor City
Posts: 9,194
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Re: Good thing they don't build 'em like they used to
Not sure what the rationale would be for a 100 mph barrier test. Most of the testing is done at 35 mph.
It's definitely an "altered wheelbase" car now, though! K
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Chevrolet Flint Assembly 1979-1986 GM Full Size Truck Engineering 1986 - 2019 Intro from an Old Assembly Guy: http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=342926 My Pontiac story: http://forums.maxperformanceinc.com/...d.php?t=560524 Chevelle intro: http://www.superchevy.com/features/s...hevy-chevelle/ |
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#12 | |
Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Indiana
Posts: 4,859
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Re: Good thing they don't build 'em like they used to
Quote:
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'70 GMC C1500 LWB Power disc brakes. WooHoo! Posi 6 Lug Dana 60 |
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#13 | |
Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Redmond, WA
Posts: 6,332
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Re: Good thing they don't build 'em like they used to
Quote:
What's important is your rate of deceleration relative to what you're about to hit: the interior of you're own car. That, however, is not solely a function of mass. Otherwise they'd build cars with big beefy frames and make them as strong and tough as you can. That's what they USED to do, and why I made this post. All that does it transfer the energy TO YOU. The stronger the car, the WORSE it is for you. Imagine you had a C10 made of carbon-fibre-diamond-titanium-whatever. Unbreakable. All they would have to do is hose off the interior and sell it to the next guy. Unless your mass was SO much higher that you didn't decelerate (train vs car, like you said), it's not the only factor. And you're not driving a train or a semi. That's reductio ad absurdum logic and it's a fallacy.
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1970 GMC Sierra Grande Custom Camper - Built, not Bought 1969 Pontiac 2+2 427/390 4-speed Coupe 1969 Pontiac 2+2 427/390 4-speed Convertible Last edited by davepl; 09-05-2014 at 02:36 PM. |
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#14 | |
Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Redmond, WA
Posts: 6,332
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Re: Good thing they don't build 'em like they used to
Quote:
Besides, the cars are SUPPOSED to mangle. This is what I can't get that people don't understand. The goal in an accident is not to reduce the amount of sheet metal damage or prevent needing to pull the frame. It's to keep you alive. The car is engineered to sacrifice its own structure to protect yours. That probably wasn't true until maybe the 70s, but it is now. The death rate (deaths per billion miles driven) has fallen from 240 to 20. It was 60 in 1967, now it's about 17. People drive a lot more, unfortunately, so overall it offsets it, but we're talking about the cars. So unless you're willing to agree that young drivers are three times better than you are (and trust me, unless you suck they aren't) it's pretty clear that for the fatality rate to be cut by 2/3s since our trucks were built things had to have improved a lot.
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1970 GMC Sierra Grande Custom Camper - Built, not Bought 1969 Pontiac 2+2 427/390 4-speed Coupe 1969 Pontiac 2+2 427/390 4-speed Convertible |
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#15 |
Listening since '86
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Canada
Posts: 1,799
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Re: Good thing they don't build 'em like they used to
Holy crap!
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2007 Saturn Aura - hey it WAS a GM product |
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#16 |
blood type; Retumbo
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: next to my reloading bench
Posts: 10,269
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Re: Good thing they don't build 'em like they used to
Upon reading all this I am remembering a board member from Missouri who HAD a 69 C10 and was hit head on by a drunk in a 96ish Taurus (Sable). The drunk only got injured from the truck's hood hitting him in the head. The truck engine pushed back THROUGH the firewall. I'm safer in my 2000 Accord than I am in my old truck.
Cars are much safer now also due to improved abilities to avoid a collision. How do you best survive a crash? Don't get into one Special K nailed it. "Unfortunately,the biggest safety risk can't be engineered out of vehicles. "
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Man rule #77...if you own a 67 stepside with a caddy 472 you will never be in danger of loosing you man card |
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#17 | |
Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Tacoma Washington
Posts: 890
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Re: Good thing they don't build 'em like they used to
Quote:
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I know a guy who's addicted to brake fluid. He says he can stop any time. 72 K10 396 75 Cj5 MPI 350 Chev 67 Chevelle 396, 4 speed 74 FXE 08 Tahoe |
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#18 | |
Hittin E-Z Street on Mud Tires
![]() Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Greenville, SC
Posts: 23,090
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Re: Good thing they don't build 'em like they used to
Quote:
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Jesse James 1967 C10 SWB Stepside: 350/700R4/3.73 1965 Ford Mustang: 289/T5-5spd/3.25 Trac-Loc 1968 Pontiac Firebird: Project Fire Chicken! 2015 Silverado Double Cab 5.3L Z71 2001 Jeep Wrangler Sport 4.0L 5spd 2020 Chevrolet Equinox Premium 2.0L Turbo 2011 Mustang V6 ~ Wife's ride ![]() American Born, Country by the Grace of God ![]() 1967 CST Shop Truck Rebuild! My 1967 C-10 Build Thread My Vintage Air A/C Install Project "On a Dime" Trying my hand at Home Renovation! 1965 Mustang Modifications! |
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#19 |
Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Redmond, WA
Posts: 6,332
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Re: Good thing they don't build 'em like they used to
To be precise, your actual words above are: "mass always wins"
So I don't know which of your two contradictory viewpoints to argue against :-)
__________________
1970 GMC Sierra Grande Custom Camper - Built, not Bought 1969 Pontiac 2+2 427/390 4-speed Coupe 1969 Pontiac 2+2 427/390 4-speed Convertible |
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#20 | |
Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Redmond, WA
Posts: 6,332
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Re: Good thing they don't build 'em like they used to
Quote:
I did it in my Camaro too. In my Pontiac, the only really "nice" old car I have, I've left it stock and actually use the shoulder belts on the road but not in town. But I don't drive it much. 100 miles in 6 years, probably worse than driving it! But that's another thread...
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1970 GMC Sierra Grande Custom Camper - Built, not Bought 1969 Pontiac 2+2 427/390 4-speed Coupe 1969 Pontiac 2+2 427/390 4-speed Convertible |
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#21 |
Old member
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Liberty, & Garden City S.C. , U.S.
Posts: 19,936
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This was my 07 Tahoe after the wife was hit. If it had been her car a 94 cadilac she more than likely wouldn't be here today! If it had been my truck I know she wouldn't be here today.
They hit her in the drivers side door running at 55MPH running a stop sign. They never touched the brakes. The impact flip her 6 times. As stated you can't fix people well you can but it's always going to be after the fact. ![]()
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1971 LWB Custom, 6.0LS & 4L80E, Speedhut.com GPS speedometer & gauges with A/C. 20" Boss 338's Grey wheels 4 wheel disc brakes. My Driver Seeing the USA in a 71 ![]() Upstate SC GM Truck Club 2013,14 and 2016 Hot Rod Pour Tour http://upstategmtrucks.com/ Get out and drive the truck this summer and have some fun! It sucks not being able to hear! LWB trucks rule, if you don't think so measure your SWB! After talking to tech support at Air Lift I have found out that the kit I need is 60811. Per the measurements I gave them. Ride height of truck inside spring and inside diameter of springs. |
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#22 |
Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Redmond, WA
Posts: 6,332
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Re: Good thing they don't build 'em like they used to
Very glad to hear the outcome; quite impressed by how the truck performed!
Some friends of ours were just in an accident (minivan or SUV, not sure) and she said the most memorable parts were (a) how loud airbags are when they deploy, and (b) the amount of powder/smoke they generate. Especially in a corner hit you'd have all the front and at least one side go, and in your wife's case rollover protection would deploy as well (my Range Rover has that, I assume most modern SUVs do). That's a lot of airbags, talcum powder (whatever they use to stop them sticking for 20 years) and explosive all at once!
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1970 GMC Sierra Grande Custom Camper - Built, not Bought 1969 Pontiac 2+2 427/390 4-speed Coupe 1969 Pontiac 2+2 427/390 4-speed Convertible |
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#23 |
Hittin E-Z Street on Mud Tires
![]() Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Greenville, SC
Posts: 23,090
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Re: Good thing they don't build 'em like they used to
Andy, I never noticed the blue car before... is that the car that hit her? It looks like a 60's Impala?
__________________
Jesse James 1967 C10 SWB Stepside: 350/700R4/3.73 1965 Ford Mustang: 289/T5-5spd/3.25 Trac-Loc 1968 Pontiac Firebird: Project Fire Chicken! 2015 Silverado Double Cab 5.3L Z71 2001 Jeep Wrangler Sport 4.0L 5spd 2020 Chevrolet Equinox Premium 2.0L Turbo 2011 Mustang V6 ~ Wife's ride ![]() American Born, Country by the Grace of God ![]() 1967 CST Shop Truck Rebuild! My 1967 C-10 Build Thread My Vintage Air A/C Install Project "On a Dime" Trying my hand at Home Renovation! 1965 Mustang Modifications! |
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#24 | |
Old member
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Liberty, & Garden City S.C. , U.S.
Posts: 19,936
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__________________
1971 LWB Custom, 6.0LS & 4L80E, Speedhut.com GPS speedometer & gauges with A/C. 20" Boss 338's Grey wheels 4 wheel disc brakes. My Driver Seeing the USA in a 71 ![]() Upstate SC GM Truck Club 2013,14 and 2016 Hot Rod Pour Tour http://upstategmtrucks.com/ Get out and drive the truck this summer and have some fun! It sucks not being able to hear! LWB trucks rule, if you don't think so measure your SWB! After talking to tech support at Air Lift I have found out that the kit I need is 60811. Per the measurements I gave them. Ride height of truck inside spring and inside diameter of springs. |
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#25 |
Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: USA
Posts: 2,613
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Re: Good thing they don't build 'em like they used to
I don't think anyone can question the fact that new vehicles are light years ahead of the old classics we love in terms of safety, reliability, driveability and quality. They just aren't as cool and most of us like to turn wrenches better than working with computer diagnostics. We're just nostalgic old farts and old souls around here.
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