New project! The "Red Herring"

[FarmerSid]

Nice progress. Good idea on flipping the frame for final welding. Much easier especially if you plan on boxing the frame.

[JJorgensen52]

Originally Posted by FarmerSid

Nice progress. Good idea on flipping the frame for final welding. Much easier especially if you plan on boxing the frame.

Thanks! I am planning to do some boxing (ahead of the trans cross member), so I think I will flip it, but I'm getting better at this overhead welding business

Portent of things to come as far as frame shape:


Major project tonight was making plates to tie into the inner structural brace in the G-body stub. I will install an additional plate above this to cover the upper opening (both plates 1/8" steel) and then fish over the whole joint in 3/16" plate.



I will grind it all flush first, of course

Good news is, the frame is stiff enough now I could set the truck down and it would carry its own weight no problem!

[JJorgensen52]

Progress!




I'm going to dress the welds tomorrow, it was too late for angle grinding tonight.

The next step for this will be boxing the inside of the rail from the A-arm mount back about a foot, and then fish plating the outside.

But first, I'm going to get the engine dropped in so I can figure out the trans tunnel and trans mount, and weld the saddles on my rear axle and get it out for rebuild. Then I'll pull the cab and tip the frame up to get better welds on the boxing plates.

Set it down to check ride height! Bad picture, I took another one of the whole truck and it's even worse (I still haven't replaced my semi-broken camera ) ... anyways, it sits dead level without the motor in it. Which, by my estimate, means I'll have about 2" of rake when all is said and done. Right on the money!

[FarmerSid]

Coming right along. Looks good. Time consuming isn't it.

[lower50's]

Looking good.
Just some friendly info. Only grind welds that will be visible. The weld is much stronger the way it comes out.
Keep up the good work.

[JJorgensen52]

Originally Posted by FarmerSid

Coming right along. Looks good. Time consuming isn't it.

You said it! My frame isn't anywhere near as much a work of art as yours, either

Originally Posted by lower50's

Looking good.
Just some friendly info. Only grind welds that will be visible. The weld is much stronger the way it comes out.
Keep up the good work.

Yes, very true. I'm really only grinding in places where I'm going to be fishing, so that the fish plates will lay flat. I was a little rusty on the stick machine when I started this, but the beads are starting to look pretty again

Good news:


Bad news (ish): I had hoped I could make the Olds motor mounts play nice with me, but that's not going to work. They're not tall enough, the motor hits the cradle before I can line up the bolt holes. So now I need to hunt up a set of SBC G-body motor mount brackets - the frame pads I can get easily enough.

[Advanced Design]

Really good progress JJ. Clip is coming out nice.

[JJorgensen52]

Originally Posted by Advanced Design

Really good progress JJ. Clip is coming out nice.

Thanks! It's worked out so far even better than I had anticipated.

Grabbed a set of motor mount brackets out of an '80 El Camino v8 at the boneyard... G-body is G-body ... had to trim them a bit to fit my adapter plates / clear the A/C mounting bosses on the block:


Married the engine and trans for the first time


And wala!


I got the protractor out, and right now I'm sitting at about 2.5* of tilt towards the rear on the motor/trans, with the chassis being about 1* towards the front for a total of 3.5* tilt from the baseline. Is there a number I should be shooting for here, relative to the ground?

I did have to trim the firewall a bit (this was done on the fly, I'll neaten it up before I build a new floor plate)


But I was able to use the original 67-72 trans cross member (it's slid about 1" back from the last set of original holes, so I have to drill four new ones)

Also in that photo, you can see the oil pan does hang down a bit below the K-member. The truck pan is pretty deep, GM and Holley both make shallower pans, so I may yet change it.

When stuff like this happens, I think this was almost meant to be:


That's the 200R4 linkage from the Olds, which just happens to be almost exactly the right size and shape. Who would've thunk that???? I will need to move the pivot point a bit on the frame. I should claim that I was intending this, but it's 100% providence, in this case

I did have to pull the driver's manifold, the outside stud was just hitting the frame rail and preventing me from getting the trans centered. I have a set of 2013 Camaro manifolds here which are narrower, just haven't installed them yet. Debating if I want to have them Jet-hot coated before I install them for good.

[FarmerSid]

Nice work. I'm in exactly the same part of my build. I'm going to have to make a bigger trans tunnel in my cab to fit the tranny.

From what I've read this morning, we need to set the engine at a down ward angle of 3 degrees. A few places said to get this angle from the front crank pulley as its 90 degrees to the crank and trans output shaft.

I will set my drive line angles with my chassis set at final ride height.

[OneOffStroker]

I agree with Sid. Your drivetrain angle should be around 3*. This is not necessarily from the ground, but more in relation to your frame. The angle should ideally be 3* down for the trans tailshaft, and 3* up on your rear end pinion. This allows the u-joints to work as designed. If you can't get exactly, 3*, say you get 2.5*, then make sure your pinion angle is also 2.5*. This is the way of things.

[apache200]

Oneoff not to take away from Jj but while theres talk of pinion angle i set the level on my intake and when it was level the trans was at 4* down. Does this sound right or should i set it at 3* down? Thanks for any help

[JJorgensen52]

From what I've been reading, the 3* is not a hard and fast rule, but came about because it's what the OEMs used for years and when swapping a carb'd motor, you need the carb to be level. Since I'm fuel injected, that no longer applies.

Basically, all that matters is that at ride height, the trans and the pinion are parallel, so that the driveshaft angles are the same at both ends. This allows the u-joints to operate smoothly without binding. Likewise, 0* (having the trans and pinion directly in line) is not good, either, because it tends to induce vibrations. Somewhere between 2* and 4* angle is the happy range for u-joints.

[JJorgensen52]

Axle is sleeved and in the truck, ready to weld on the seats, but in double checking all my angles I noticed a clearance issue on my oil pan ... so looks like tomorrow I'm going to lift the motor up and add some shims under the frame stands and see if that gets me enough clearance ... then I'll re-set the rear and actually weld on the seats.

In other news, got started on making my new rear cross member / bed support / gas tank support. That end of things is working out nicely

[apache200]

Thats JJ

[JJorgensen52]

Many hours of fitting, fiddling and head scratching later...

Sleeved axles:


It's currently in the truck, bolted down, and I *think* it's straight ... going to check one more time tomorrow then get the seats welded on. It goes out tomorrow evening for rebuild.

Most of my monkeying was with the motor mounts:


I have about 7/16" clearance at that tight spot now (started out with about 1/16"), which I am okay with. I added a 3/16" plate under each frame mount to get the motor up a little. That also improved my pinion angles and gave me more clearance on the center link. On the fence about whether I've leave the spacers loose, or weld them to the frame and make it a permanent install. Probably the latter.


This oil pan hangs down a bit more than I'd like ... thinking about swapping to the GM "hotrod" pan, which is the same as a Hummer H3 pan and about 1.5" shallower, but it's $$$ so I might just make up a skidplate instead, I'm not going super low with this truck.

[lower50's]

Looks good. Ya even not going super low you still don't want the pan exposed. I raised my motor 1/2"

[JJorgensen52]

Originally Posted by lower50's

Looks good. Ya even not going super low you still don't want the pan exposed. I raised my motor 1/2"

I think if I took a straight edge down the frame the pan is probably 1" below the K-member. We shall see how everything shapes up as I get closer to ride height.

New parking brake assemblies and backing plates for the rear axle (these are 50% cheaper to buy in parts than assembled from GM, who'd think that??)


Axle seats welded on:



That killed me, because I feel like I'm making no progress when I spend three hours with a tape measure making minute adjustments, but I know I'll be thankful for it later.

Started in on the rear cross member. This is where it will sit, I'm going to make a side plate which fits into the frame full height, and it will bolt through all three faces of the rail:



This way, the rear sill (this is a 51-53 style bed) can sit directly on the cross member. It will also be the rear mounting point for my S10 Blazer gas tank straps, and will serve as the mounting point for my rear bumper as well.

And lastly, checked the clearance on my Camaro manifolds. Right where I wanted it!



I'm taking vacation for the 4th of July to visit some family, so all's going to be quiet on this project for a bit

[oldman3]

Nice update, good clearance on the manifolds...Jim

[Advanced Design]

Good progress. The manifolds look new?

[JJorgensen52]

Originally Posted by oldman3

Nice update, good clearance on the manifolds...Jim

Originally Posted by Advanced Design

Good progress. The manifolds look new?

Thanks fellas! Yes, the manifolds are brand new from GM. I'm planning to have them ceramic coated and I figured that a set that was totally clean would be a better choice for long term adhesion. Wasn't much more expensive than Ebay.

[lower50's]

What color ceramic? Ceramic silver looked and worked good on my snowmobile.

[JJorgensen52]

Originally Posted by lower50's

What color ceramic? Ceramic silver looked and worked good on my snowmobile.

Probably the cast iron grey - it's a higher temperature coating that I've had good luck with (and it looks better on a non-dressed up engine!). I'll do them in and out.

[FarmerSid]

2010 Camaro manifolds? That's the set I have and have no wheres the clearance you do.

[JJorgensen52]

Originally Posted by FarmerSid

2010 Camaro manifolds? That's the set I have and have no wheres the clearance you do.

Sid, yes that's right, but remember my frame is from a '68 C10 / '86 G-body ... I have about 31" between the rails right there, I think the AD only has about 28"?? I'd have to check my old frame.

[FarmerSid]

I forgot that you arn't using the stock frame. My frame is 26" wide at the manifold flanges. Went back and read your whole thread and it got me to thinking of things I need to address. Like the shifter linkage from the column to the tranny.

Couple questions. What steering column are you using? Where did you get your Vette gas pedal from?

Cheers!